Phil Collins

Speaker 20:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 20:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen ninety three and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:29

My Castaway this week is a rock star. Unlike many others in his profession, he has the reputation of being clean living, almost wholesome. He was brought up in a middle class family in West London, where his main pastimes were acting and drumming.

Presenter0:42

In nineteen seventy he joined the rock band Genesis, becoming its lead singer five years later. From there he developed his enormously successful solo career with long strings of hits and albums. He sold some thirty five million records world wide.

Presenter0:57

But he's also kept up the acting. In nineteen eighty eight he played Buster in the film of that name. This year he played a mad insurance investigator in frauds, and there are more cinema plans afoot. All this has made him very rich, but also level headed. He doesn't deny a few personal problems, but basically he says he's as English as fish and chips. He is Phil Collins, and he's sitting opposite me here in the Genesis studio five minutes from his home in Sussex, where he's spending Christmas. Your major problem seems to be, Phil, that you have this wholesome reputation and you don't much care for it. It grates on you for some reason.

Phil Collins1:31

Mm.

Phil Collins1:34

Wholesome

Phil Collins1:36

Uh yeah, well it kind of does a bit. Um

Presenter1:39

But why? I mean, is that because rock stars are supposed to be mean and moody and mysterious?

Phil Collins1:44

Yeah, I'm not quite sure. I think it all started from a newspaper ringing my mother up and saying

Phil Collins1:49

Now, come on, Mrs. Collins, give me some of Phil's faults, you see. And my mum sort of actually she told me this after she said, Well, I all I said was

Phil Collins1:57

I can't think of anything off the top of my head, and so ah. So suddenly I became Mr. Perfect, you know, and then that became Mr. Nice Guy.

Speaker 22:01

Hmm.

Phil Collins2:04

Although there's nothing wrong with being nice, and I actually uh really when it comes down to it.

Phil Collins2:09

I don't mind it at all. It's just that musically, you know, the connotations are average and middle of the road. Nice. You know, it's always one of those words.

Presenter2:15

Nice. You don't want to be pigeonholed with Barry Manhillow and the other.

Phil Collins2:20

Oh, you said it not me.

Presenter2:21

There's a comma.

Presenter2:23

But but you have, nevertheless, it seems

Phil Collins2:24

But you

Presenter2:26

Managed to avoid the pitfalls of rock stardom, really. I mean, the drugs. I mean, you must have.

Phil Collins2:31

Well of course. You know, I mean, it's it's it's the thing, you know, you you you do. I mean but but it's it's it's not in in a di and I'm not an addictive person. It's not in my nature, you know.

Presenter2:41

But is it also perhaps because you've seen too many of your friends fall foul of such things?

Phil Collins2:46

Yeah, some friends and some of course people that you've admired um and never met. See them go that way. I mean, now, for example, I mean, apart from Eric, who's um, you know.

Presenter2:57

Harry clapped.

Phil Collins2:58

Eric Clapton.

Phil Collins3:00

A drug and an alcohol alcohol abuser.

Phil Collins3:03

David Crosby is is another one of my great friends now. And um

Phil Collins3:07

God knows, he he was as low as they can go, you know. And I've seen him come back and now he's as sharp as a sharp as a needle, he's great.

Presenter3:14

What about I mean, the other thing that Eric Clapton has often fallen foul of is women. Again, that's something I mean, you're mon monogamous, really, aren't you? On the house, twice married, nevertheless.

Phil Collins3:21

Yes. Twice married, nevertheless. Twice married, yeah. Well, I've always been a sort of um one woman guy, really.

Phil Collins3:26

I got married to s a lady that I went to school with.

Phil Collins3:29

We started living together in'seventy three'.

Phil Collins3:31

And then we split up when the kids started going to school.

Phil Collins3:36

um because she couldn't come on the tour anymore. And I went from that relationship

Phil Collins3:40

almost, I mean, give or take a few months, almost straight away into meeting Jill, who is now my wife, you know. So and we've been together for like thirteen years now.

Presenter3:50

Well, let's get away from it all for the next forty minutes anyway, and cast you away on a desert island. What's the first record that you'll play?

Phil Collins3:58

Paul Brady is one of my favorite songwriters. He has a wonderfully pure voice and um he quite often has written songs that I do wish that I'd been responsible for. But this song certainly meant a lot to me in the last half a dozen years or so.

Speaker 44:17

Still you have never wanted to change me

Speaker 44:22

Diamond and noob

Speaker 44:26

Go afar.

Speaker 44:31

The signal is strong.

Speaker 44:35

This helpless heart will always belong

Presenter4:43

Paul Brady and Helpless Heart, a record that you say has meant a lot to you in the past few years. It's like the sort of stuff you write. You write very much from the heart yourself, don't you?

Phil Collins4:51

Yourself.

Phil Collins4:53

Yes, I mean I I really didn't finish a song.

Phil Collins4:56

until I I started writing face value material. And that was really born out of a divorce of which I considered myself to be the injured party, of course. Now I realize that there are two sides to every story and there are both.

Presenter5:07

There are

Phil Collins5:09

Faults at both ends.

Presenter5:10

But this was the album you brought out in 81 after the divorce from your father.

Phil Collins5:12

Yeah.

Phil Collins5:13

That's right, yeah. But I was just writing songs as messages because I found I was actually able to say things in songs that I wasn't able to say.

Phil Collins5:21

In person.

Presenter5:22

Are you asking her to come back in this song?

Phil Collins5:24

Um

Phil Collins5:25

Yes, I suppose so, yeah. I mean, it's hard for me to sort of

Phil Collins5:29

Then I was I just couldn't believe what was happening because I just I went to school with my my ex-wife and I think really more than anything else it was my children that I

Phil Collins5:38

I was very um

Phil Collins5:40

concerned and upset, and disappointed in myself that I would not bear to be a father in the same way that my dad was to me.

Phil Collins5:47

To my son, you know?

Speaker 45:48

Hmm.

Phil Collins5:49

And to my daughter?

Phil Collins5:50

And I knew my daughter was gonna be okay'cause she was gonna be with her mother, uh although I know that that's not necessarily the case all the time. I mean, obviously everybody needs a mother and a father, I think, but

Phil Collins5:58

But my son particularly was like, I thought this is ridiculous, you know, I can't actually understand. Anyway, so some of these songs were about that.

Presenter6:04

Would you go as far as to say, if you haven't experienced something, you can't write about it. When you write a song, it's usually because you've been there.

Phil Collins6:11

Yes, I think that's generally true. Although when I write a song like Another Day in Paradise, which is about the homeless, I have not been homeless. I mean, obviously I haven't you know, although I'm very well off now, though you know, I joined Genesis run a tenor a week.

Phil Collins6:25

I mean, when I get criticised for writing songs like that, because how would he know about it? He's a rich rock star, then obviously the logical conclusion is that do you have to, you know, do you have to go out and kill someone to write a film like Bonnie and Clyde, for example? So, um.

Phil Collins6:37

I don't necessarily go along with all that, but I I I I write things about things that bother me and and the way I feel.

Presenter6:42

What about your most recent album, Both Sides? Because that seems very much to be about loss and longing and about somebody.

Phil Collins6:51

Yeah. Well, you know, I suppose as you get to the halfway mark in your life, you know, you start looking back.

Phil Collins6:57

as much as looking forward, you know, and uh

Phil Collins6:59

I've just reached that halfway mark. And they're always going to be the little skeletons in the cupboard. They're always going to be the people that.

Speaker 27:03

There was

Phil Collins7:05

if you start thinking about them.

Phil Collins7:07

Or if without even wanting to, you can have a dream one night and suddenly you s you it's like this person you haven't thought about for fifteen, twenty years, suddenly you think about and for two weeks you can't think about anything else.

Presenter7:19

So your wife has to be pretty long-suffering, is she?

Phil Collins7:21

Yes. She's the worst now. She's amazing, actually. I mean, um

Phil Collins7:25

She knows it's what I do. I mean, I have to write about what I what I am and what I feel. But, um

Presenter7:30

I suppose it might be easier if you could write more metaphorically or

Phil Collins7:33

Yeah. If I was more figurative, you know, I'd just but I I call a spade a spade, which is my shortcoming, you know.

Presenter7:33

Yeah.

Presenter7:38

But perhaps that's one of the secrets of your success is that you that you talk about the feelings that people feel, the things they know about, you speak their language.

Phil Collins7:44

I think it's true. I I mean I I am asked why do you think your music appeals to so many people? And I I can only think that it's because they hear themselves in my songs. What's record number two?

Phil Collins7:57

Tim Hardin.

Phil Collins7:59

This is a song which in the same way has the same kind of sentiment as Helpless Heart.

Phil Collins8:05

And I'm an old romantic at heart, so hang on to a dream.

Speaker 48:08

What can I say? She's a walking away.

Speaker 48:14

From what we've seen.

Speaker 48:18

What can I do still loving you?

Speaker 48:24

It's all a dream.

Speaker 48:27

How can we hang on to dreams?

Speaker 48:33

How can it really?

Presenter8:35

The way it seemed.

Presenter8:38

Tim Hardin and Hang On to a Dream. Let's talk about Phil Collins the Boy. The um the most riveting image I've come across of you i is you smiling from the cover of a ninepenny knitting pattern for Emu Wools, wearing a very smart moss stitch V Na sweater.

Phil Collins8:53

You need a sweater.

Presenter8:55

Did you do many of those? I mean, modellings or knitting patterns?

Phil Collins8:57

Yeah. The only thing I went for lots of auditions, you know, um

Phil Collins9:01

I mean, I was a professional auditioner, uh, as I was later in life as a drummer.

Presenter9:05

You were you were the sort of kid who went in for any talent competition that was going.

Phil Collins9:08

Well, the telecom edition actually, that was early on before I went to drama school. But when you're at drama school, you know, the my agent, who actually happened to be my mum,

Phil Collins9:16

Which actually worked against me in some respects. A lot of people say, Oh, well in that case you got all the jobs, didn't you? But in fact, my mum was so sensitive to the fact that people thought she would be seen to be pushing me, she actually didn't send me for a lot of things that she maybe wanted to or could have done.

Presenter9:28

Were you a a a natural show off in the sense that if you were at

Presenter9:31

butlins or wherever, you'd actually volunteer to go up on the stage.

Phil Collins9:34

I yeah. I suppose, um, back before I I went to drama school, my mother my mother and father, uh little converted cabin cruiser, they belonged to a yacht club and the yacht club, which was actually should have been called a cabin cruiser club, but they called it sort of a yacht club and they they belonged to it and I was a cadet, my brother and sister were cadets and we all had shows every Thursday, we went down there. They had the dinner and dances and they had pantomimes and I was Humpty Dumpty and I was all that kind of you know, all I I was the I was the youngest.

Presenter10:03

But your dad worked in insurance in the city, did he?

Phil Collins10:05

The city didn't he?

Presenter10:06

And you all lived in West London.

Phil Collins10:07

Yeah, and he lived in Hounslow and he he was in the city for 40 years with Sun Alliance.

Presenter10:08

I mean

Presenter10:11

So where did this urge to perform come from?

Phil Collins10:15

My mum used to sing and dance at these shows, and my father got up and sang.

Phil Collins10:20

A couple of West Country songs, you know, Elderly Dose Emma's a funny format, all that kind of thing, which I've since perfected.

Speaker 410:27

I've since perfected.

Phil Collins10:29

And um

Phil Collins10:30

So the whole family did it, and I guess it just became something I did.

Phil Collins10:36

And I went to grammar school, a very n you know, normal school. And when my mother got asked to run this agency, I got sent for the job for the Artful Dodger, because that was one of the first jobs that came up.

Presenter10:45

In Oliver. In the West End.

Phil Collins10:45

In the West End.

Presenter10:47

Mm-hmm.

Phil Collins10:47

which I did for seven months until my voice broke and then um

Presenter10:50

But the school didn't like Chiswick County Grammar did not like its pupils starring in the West End.

Phil Collins10:52

Not

Phil Collins10:55

Well, mister Hands, who was the the the headmaster at the time, I I only really talked to him once, and that was when he uh told me that he was congratulations, Collins, on doing getting this job, but um afraid you can't do the whole run. Just do three months of the nine months, if that's okay with you, or you're going to have to leave.

Phil Collins11:11

So I went home and told my mum and dad and my mum and my father was very proud of me because it was the West End, you know. And uh my mum, of course, said, Well, of course, you know, you should do it, you know, leave school, leave school and go to drama school. So I did that and uh

Phil Collins11:25

At drama school, you know, you're you're you're doing your academic stuff, but always going out for auditions. And I always went for

Phil Collins11:32

The jobs that I got were the knitting patterns and and and the the odd T V play, B B C play.

Phil Collins11:37

But the thing I never got, which I thought was interesting, was it was commercials. I never got one commercial audition, which means I didn't have the face that could sell anything.

Speaker 211:43

Which means I didn't

Phil Collins11:45

Which I thought was really interesting. I in later life I thought, you know, I'll put my face all over the records now, but but you know, I have the face that can't sell anything.

Presenter11:53

Record number three.

Phil Collins11:54

Ah yes. Well this is from that period really. I mean no collection would be complete without one or two Beatles records. I mean the Beatles were the reason I'm in this business really. Although I've been playing drums since I was five it was the Beatles that suddenly gave me a purpose. And this I think sums up that early mid sixties feeling for me when I was at school and really loving it. It's all my loving.

Speaker 412:16

Welcome to the

Speaker 412:20

And then while I'm away, I'll write home every day And I'll send all my loving to you

Speaker 412:33

All my loving, I will send to you All my loving darling I'll

Presenter12:47

The Beatles and all my loving. So knitting patterns and artful dodging apart. You were always a drummer at heart, weren't you?

Phil Collins12:52

Yeah.

Phil Collins12:55

Never wanted to be anything else.

Presenter12:56

But was this because suddenly you were given a drum kit one Christmas or something?

Phil Collins13:00

Well, I was, yeah. I mean, in cra when I was three I got given a drum for Christmas. I mean, literally a tin drum alongside, you know, the chocolates and all the rest of the stuff you get given.

Phil Collins13:10

And apparently I took to it to the to the extent that when I was five at Christmas my uncles had decided that previous year to build me a drum kit, make me a drum kit that fitted in a suitcase.

Presenter13:21

What with the triangle and symbols and things and so on?

Phil Collins13:23

Yeah.

Phil Collins13:23

Yeah, on a little stand, homemade wooden stand. That all collapse into a suitcase.

Presenter13:27

Wonderful.

Presenter13:28

So, what did you do? Did you sit down then in front of the telly or in front of the radio and drum along?

Phil Collins13:32

Yeah. In fact in the early days uh and when I first got it I sat up in the corner of the room and we used to watch the television and sounded like the Lama Playdeem or something. And my mum and dad and my brother and sister and my uncles, the two uncles, Reginald and Tange that built the the drum kit for me. And we used to watch television and I used to play along with the television.

Presenter13:49

With a London Perlin.

Phil Collins13:50

Yeah, and I think they must have had um all of them all of them must have been deaf or they must have been very, very patient and eventually I got sent upstairs to the bedroom.

Presenter13:58

But who else, I mean, before the Beatles, who were the influences, the musical influences, really?

Phil Collins14:02

Well, the first record I ever played along to or and and and bought and then played along to was Joe Brown and the Brothers. And then that was, you know, very soon after that, even at around the same time probably, the um the Beatles, Please Please Me onwards. And then anything. Mersey Beats stuff, you know, or any of the Northern Sound stuff and the Hollies and um and Motown.

Presenter14:08

Sure.

Speaker 214:14

Yeah.

Presenter14:14

Onwards. Yeah.

Presenter14:23

And so by the time you were, what, fifteen, sixteen, you'd formed your own band?

Phil Collins14:27

Yes, I had a school group which

Phil Collins14:30

I've still stayed in touch. I mean, my ex-wife was was the one of the singers. There's uh another lady that was really important in my life in my early growing up.

Phil Collins14:38

She was the other singer. There's uh one of the guys who's in the five guys named Mo was our lead singer, Peter Newton, he's still in the lump in the West End, he's a great dancer. And uh a couple of brothers that played guitar and bass, and I was the drummer.

Presenter14:52

This is the real thing.

Phil Collins14:53

The real thing, yeah. And I pl I sang from behind the drum kit as well, so we had

Presenter14:54

I like

Presenter14:57

Oh, you sang even then?

Phil Collins14:58

Blue.

Phil Collins14:59

It was only a school group, but we thought quite professionally, yeah.

Presenter15:01

But you did play professional. I mean, you became it became the charge and freehold.

Phil Collins15:06

Um well, after school, when I left school, I s then I went professional in a semi-professional world. I mean uh

Phil Collins15:13

I just got involved in groups. Anywhere that I could play, I played, and some of these groups were semi-professional, the charge, yes, the freehold.

Presenter15:20

But you're also a a a bit of a professional dancer as well, aren't you?

Phil Collins15:24

Yes, my life passes before me, Super.

Presenter15:25

My life pass

Presenter15:27

Didn't you do demos of something called The Crunch?

Phil Collins15:29

Yes. Well, you see, at drama school you are you are

Phil Collins15:32

I was a bit of a ladies' man at drama school, gotta be honest, and uh it was the great leveller was coming out of the dressing room in tights.

Phil Collins15:39

Because the hairs of your legs used to go straight through the tights to start with, so it was an extraordinary sight.

Phil Collins15:43

And, you know, so I I had to do ballet, tap.

Phil Collins15:46

modern jazz and um

Phil Collins15:49

I got an opportunity to go out on the road as a dancer.

Phil Collins15:52

which was Smith's Crisps, one of their

Phil Collins15:55

things they were doing was called Do the Crunch, you know, which is

Phil Collins15:57

Me and another guy and two girls went out touring England, doing the Locanos and um

Phil Collins16:03

And all these really, pretty rough places actually

Presenter16:05

But what was the crumb?

Phil Collins16:07

It was a it was a dance, you know, and it was I mean it was it was to advertise the crisps, obviously, but it was a it was a dance and that we used to perform in front of all these mods.

Phil Collins16:15

Imagine how well this went down.

Phil Collins16:17

Here's a puff in the tights, you know, and uh

Phil Collins16:20

So we did all this and um

Phil Collins16:23

And then we have to go round the audience bringing people out onto the floor to teach them the dance. I mean, the whole idea of it horrifies me now. I must have been so close to getting duffed up so many times by these mods. But anyway, I I did it until I left school,'cause I had to.

Presenter16:37

Record number four.

Phil Collins16:38

Yeah.

Phil Collins16:39

But this this is one that I am

Phil Collins16:41

I remember making this big impression on me when I first heard it. It's one side of a conversation.

Phil Collins16:46

And I and I love songs like this. It's when from from what you hear in the conversation you know exactly what's going on. And it's a bit like I Get Along Without You Very Well, Ho Gee Carmichael. I've I've written my own version of that on the new album, I've forgotten everything.

Phil Collins16:58

It's a bit like when you meet someone oh no, I've met her and I thought I'd forgotten all about her. It's called Downriver and it's by David Accles, who has since kind of disappeared, but it's a great song.

Phil Collins17:09

I still remember

Phil Collins17:11

Uh

Speaker 417:11

A song.

Speaker 417:14

When you were mine.

Speaker 417:20

Time's cheating.

Speaker 417:22

Times change I know.

Speaker 417:26

But it shows slow

Speaker 417:31

Down river.

Speaker 417:34

When you're locked away

Presenter17:38

David Accles and Down River. When did Phil Collins come face to face with Genesis then?

Phil Collins17:45

nineteen seventy.

Phil Collins17:46

I answered an advert.

Phil Collins17:48

And melody maker.

Phil Collins17:50

And um

Phil Collins17:51

I went down to the audition with a friend of mine, Ronnie Carroll, from Flaming Youth, who is still I still see a great friend of mine, my oldest friend probably. And uh we went down in his um Morris Minor with my drums in the back, and we drove up to Chobham, which is where Peter Gabriel's parents lived.

Phil Collins18:07

We unloaded the drums and he unloaded his guitar and I set up my drums and

Phil Collins18:11

I couldn't believe it. They were set up on the patio outside. Beautiful sunny day.

Phil Collins18:15

Had a um sunshade under which the drums would be set, grand piano on the patio.

Phil Collins18:20

It was something unlike I'd ever seen before.

Phil Collins18:23

Anyway, I I was early, so they sent me off in the

Phil Collins18:26

Sent me off uh to have a swim. Swimming pool. Good God.

Phil Collins18:30

So I went for a swim and I was listening to the other drummers' audition, making their mistakes and I was learning. I'm pretty quick by ear. I could pick pick things up very quickly. And so by the time I had my audition I actually knew everything backwards and I waltzed through it and they all said, uh, oh, well thank you very much And I didn't know if I'd got it or not. In fact, Ronnie was convinced that I hadn't got it and that he had. And of course two weeks later I you know, I got a phone call from Peter Gabriel saying that I'd got it and he hadn't.

Presenter18:54

Uh

Phil Collins18:55

And uh and that was that.

Presenter18:56

But they were as as you were saying they're, you know, quite smart. They were the pub the public school band, weren't they? They'd formed a Charterhouse, and I think they'd persuaded an ex Charterhouse boy, Jonathan King, to give them a recording break or something.

Phil Collins19:06

That's why he produced the first album.

Presenter19:08

Did you feel always like the Outsider, the boy from Hounslow, the grammar school boy?

Phil Collins19:14

Well, I I didn't really feel like an outsider. I felt very different. And I think my role

Phil Collins19:19

became that of class clown, you know, I that I mean, I always think that drummers are usually got they're usually the jokers in the band. I mean, they're the ones that always know the the jokes and they tell everybody else and usually uh in Genesis it I was kind of felt that I was always diffusing a pot a potentially very volatile situation.

Speaker 219:26

Tell everybody.

Phil Collins19:35

And quite often we they'd in the middle of the song someone would just stop playing and storm out because of something somebody had said that I'd missed.

Phil Collins19:42

And uh I was sort of amazed by this. It was a very different kind of group.

Presenter19:46

Hmm.

Phil Collins19:46

To be in.

Presenter19:47

But you you also you mentioned the the classic role of the drummer, the the joker that sits up the back. To make therefore the transition, as you did, five

Phil Collins19:52

And

Presenter19:55

years later to lead singer when Peter Gabriel had gone.

Phil Collins19:58

Uh

Presenter19:58

Was was huge. I mean, you were crossing all sorts of lines there, weren't you?

Phil Collins20:02

I suppose

Presenter20:02

Yeah.

Phil Collins20:06

I was been very happy staying behind the drums. I mean, I didn't want the big go out front and wiggle my bum, as I as I sometimes put it.

Presenter20:08

I mean, I do

Phil Collins20:12

I just felt awkward by it. I mean, I didn't look the part.

Phil Collins20:15

I didn't feel I could take a microphone off a stand. I didn't want to play the game that you had to play if you were a lead singer.

Phil Collins20:22

But

Phil Collins20:23

If we were to stay together, we had to do this. And it was my then wife, you know, who said to me, Why don't you do it? You did the album, and I said,

Phil Collins20:31

Yeah, I suppose I could, you know, if we can get a drummer that I like. And we got Bill Bruford, who was a, you know, a friend of mine and and a I was a big fan of, and Yes, and Crimson, King Crimson.

Phil Collins20:40

So he came in and I started singing and the first gig I ever did was in London, Ontario, in Canada.

Phil Collins20:46

And uh I remember driving to the gig from Toronto, you know, writing down, Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, how are you? you know, that kind of thing. I was more worried about what I was going to say than the singing.

Phil Collins20:58

And uh

Phil Collins21:00

The fans were willing it to work, and it worked.

Speaker 221:03

Record number five.

Phil Collins21:04

Well, this is the old romantic coming out again, I'm afraid. Um Aretha Franklin is I've always loved her voice, and uh she did a version of this song somewhere, and it's probably my favorite version of the song.

Speaker 421:20

A place for us.

Speaker 421:27

Some way

Speaker 421:32

There is a place for me

Speaker 421:37

Peace and good

Speaker 421:41

No brain.

Speaker 421:48

It waits for a

Speaker 421:52

Some way

Speaker 422:05

There is a time for

Speaker 422:14

I know the man.

Speaker 422:21

Time together

Speaker 422:24

Just to live without speaking.

Speaker 422:31

Tad

Speaker 422:36

Oh, time to care.

Presenter22:40

Aretha Franklin singing somewhere. The eighties then, Phil Collins, saw you going solo and finding even greater success, but uh

Presenter22:49

Here's where we dent the Mr. Nice Guy image,'cause apparently you're a hard taskmaster. You like it done right and you like it done your way, is that right?

Phil Collins22:56

Well, yes, I I mean, when I go on stage I'm a hundred percent, you know.

Phil Collins23:02

Um

Presenter23:02

And you don't like it if people aren't. Yeah. That's when you get tetchy, isn't it?

Phil Collins23:04

Yeah.

Phil Collins23:06

Yeah, I mean I have had run ins with with various

Phil Collins23:09

people at various times, you know.

Presenter23:12

What you come off the stage and you just let rip.

Phil Collins23:12

But you

Phil Collins23:14

Yeah.

Phil Collins23:15

Yeah, well when when bass players tend to sort of fall upstairs on the way to the dressing room and things, you think, Now come on guys, you know, and then you sort of go to the dressing room and close the door and

Presenter23:24

What they've had a drink before rehearsal or before performance or

Phil Collins23:27

Yeah, what happens is that what is there is a tendency to sort of. If you have a drink during the show, which is, you know, this is music, this is supposed to be enjoyable. So I'm not saying.

Presenter23:28

What's he?

Phil Collins23:36

To h have nothing at all. I mean, in with Genesis, we used to have the old um social half inch, as we call it, before before we went on, just to sort of the kickstart, you know. But generally speaking, we're a hundred percent straight. I mean,

Phil Collins23:47

And I you have to be to play the stuff we do. You can't do it any other way.

Presenter23:50

The other negative image, if we're denting you as we go. Go ahead, dent me, dent me.

Phil Collins23:54

Go on, hey.

Presenter23:55

is that you're a hard headed business tycoon, that you send for quarterly statements of account. You are, after all, it has to be said, the the highest paid company director in Britain, twelve and a half million a year or something. I mean, I don't blame you for sending for quarterly statements of account, but

Presenter24:10

What is it? You have a horror of being diddled, you?

Phil Collins24:12

Well, no, actually, I'm the antithesis of a of a hard-headed businessman. I have no business head at all.

Phil Collins24:18

Which is why I asked for a quarterly statement, you know. Um, I'm not really a businessman at all. I mean, I I actually I'm a musician and and the fact that you do earn a lot of money when you're a musician doesn't automatically make you a businessman.

Presenter24:29

But would you notice if the odd

Phil Collins24:31

Million went astray.

Phil Collins24:32

Well, I I I certainly would, yeah, because I have the statements. I mean but there are many rock stars who wouldn't. Oh yes, probably. And that's I mean, I I I surround myself with people that I trust, you know. And uh

Presenter24:44

But you still want to see the account?

Phil Collins24:46

Well, yeah, because I'm interest you know, I mean, I I just think I should do, to be honest. I should do.

Presenter24:51

'Cause your dad'cause your dad would have

Phil Collins24:51

Because you said

Phil Collins24:53

Because yeah, because my dad would have done and because I can.

Presenter24:55

But do you have, I mean, talking about the money, an enormous sense of of power when you see and read stories perhaps about children who need life-saving operations and that sort of thing. How do you feel? You think, you know, I could solve that one. I know.

Phil Collins25:10

I know. Well, I mean, I to be honest, I

Phil Collins25:13

I d did one at one point a a guy came to my front door.

Phil Collins25:17

And said to me, You know, Mr. Collins, I don't know you from Adam, you don't know me, but

Phil Collins25:22

I live down the road, and they're going to throw me out unless I get eight thousand pounds.

Phil Collins25:28

And cut long story short, I gave the guy eight thousand pounds.

Phil Collins25:32

Give him a check there and then. And he went away.

Speaker 225:32

Yeah.

Phil Collins25:34

And I he said, I'll pay you back. I said, Listen, pay me back.

Phil Collins25:38

If you don't pay me back, then I won't do this again. But if you pay me back, I probably will. And he said, I might not be for a year or two. I said, Just pay me back at some point. And then two years later, he came back, gave me eight eight thousand pound cheque. So I I've since done that.

Phil Collins25:51

to some extent. It's just impossible to help everybody that I g get that asks me. But occasionally you'll or more than occasionally you'll you'll see a photograph, you know, the kind of thing you're talking about, of a girl, little a little eight, nine year old that hasn't been able to to crawl.

Phil Collins26:06

since birth and needs a wheelchair all the time and she needs a wheelchair lift.

Phil Collins26:11

And well in the in the amount of time that it takes me to read the letter, I've earned the money that she needs.

Phil Collins26:16

Yeah.

Phil Collins26:17

So you it it connects and say you send the money off and you hope to change someone's life or affect or at least help someone.

Phil Collins26:23

along those lines. And so I I do that because I just can't see any reason why not, you know.

Presenter26:29

Next record.

Phil Collins26:30

Well, this is one of my favorite bands. They've only ever made two records. Blue Nile is the name of the band.

Phil Collins26:35

And I find this very uplifting. We used to play this before we went on stage on the Genesis tour. It's called The Downtown Lights.

Speaker 426:42

There is just one thing

Speaker 426:45

Can say

Speaker 426:50

Nobody loves you this way.

Speaker 426:56

Alright.

Speaker 427:01

Can't you see?

Speaker 427:07

Uh

Presenter27:11

The Downtown Lights from Blue Nile. Tell me about the acting, Phil, which you returned to in the late eighties with Buster. That was the true story of Buster Edwards, one of the great train robbers, wasn't it?

Phil Collins27:20

It was a story of Vasso. But you're talking about Basto, isn't that the true story at all? Well, actually,

Presenter27:23

Sorry, so

Phil Collins27:25

We saw it I mean the writers Colin Schindler and the director David Green kind of saw it as um

Phil Collins27:31

It was the romantic love story. That's what it was about. It was about.

Presenter27:35

It made him very lovable. I mean is he not afraid of the mm-hmm?

Phil Collins27:37

I mean is he not? Actually he is a lo very lovable man. I lo I really do think the world of him. I mean him and June I I've got very close to. I mean I don't see him as much in the last few years as as I did maybe around the time of the film, but we stay in touch.

Presenter27:50

Hmm.

Phil Collins27:50

And uh they come to the gigs. I was invited to the shows and sort of see

Presenter27:53

It it got a bit of stick there, the film, didn't it? People said it glorified crime, really, made him a bit of a hero when in fact he was a

Phil Collins27:55

Oh yeah.

Presenter28:00

He was a criminal and he paid his time, didn't he?

Phil Collins28:02

That's right. I think I mean uh at the time of course I invited the Prince and Princess of Wales to the Premiere because I was involved with the Princess Trust and been to so many premieres, film premieres, to raise money for the trust. I thought it was obvious, you know, I'm in a film, I would have it as a trust and they saw it, they they took it to the palace, twice they watched it, I mean, you know, on two different occasions.

Phil Collins28:22

And they said, yeah, it's perfectly suitable. You know, there's very little bad language, and it's actually.

Phil Collins28:27

If you think about what the Princess Trust does, it actually.

Phil Collins28:32

You know, it encourages those that have been off the rails to get back on the rails. And Buster is a classic example of someone that did something, served his time, and now got a job.

Phil Collins28:42

albeit one that he doesn't particularly like, you know, I mean, he's got to be up all hours of the day and night.

Presenter28:46

Selling flowers

Phil Collins28:47

Selling flowers outside Waterloo Station, but it is a job. I mean, he actually has.

Phil Collins28:52

Um he's done what the Princess Trust kind of encor encourages kids to do.

Presenter28:57

This year you've released Frauds in which you play not a lovable character at all, a rather sinister chap, I think, a an an insurance investigator, and you nearly drowned on the bottom of a swimming pool.

Phil Collins29:10

Yes, well the there's the scene at the end of the film which is far too complicated a plot really to go into'cause it's very surreal off the wall film, Australian.

Phil Collins29:17

Made. Um

Phil Collins29:18

But there's a scene at the end of the film when I have to rescue my brother, who's in a wheelchair, who's quadriplegic.

Phil Collins29:25

who's tied in this wheelchair and um

Phil Collins29:28

Is at the bottom of the swimming pool. Now, to jump in at that, literally jump in at the deep end with that kind of plot, you know, you have to know what led up to it. But I have to rescue him, and so I basically had all these scenes to do underwater. And as bodies float, you know, I had to have weights put on me to drag me down to the deep end where he was, to keep me there so I could actually do the business that I was supposed to be doing.

Phil Collins29:53

Of course, you know, after a day of this, or in fact, we had three days in the pool, but a day of this particular scene.

Phil Collins29:59

Of them getting the underwater camera right and everything, eventually I was just sort of losing my breath. You know, I mean, I had little each take as each take went on, I had less strength.

Phil Collins30:08

to the point where I was sort of

Phil Collins30:10

If you I w didn't get enough breath'cause I wasn't out in the air long enough before I came down again. And eventually I started signalling to the safety guys, you know.

Phil Collins30:19

Need help.

Phil Collins30:20

Need help. And they were giving me the thumbs up saying, Yeah, it's looking great, Phil. Don't worry about it. You're doing great. And I'm saying, no, no, you don't understand. Need help.

Presenter30:25

And I'm saying, no, no, you don't.

Presenter30:28

I'm drowning, not waving.

Phil Collins30:28

I'm drunk.

Phil Collins30:29

Yeah.

Phil Collins30:30

So anyway, they eventually got me out and uh, you know, just give a couple of minutes and I was all right to go back home again.

Presenter30:37

Record number seven.

Phil Collins30:38

Number seven. Well, talking about my acting career, well, this was um I was in A Hard Day's Night, although I've never seen me.

Phil Collins30:44

But I got paid for it. Um but this is a song that they sang in a Hard Day's Night when we were there doing the screaming at the end of the s the end of the film. Again, like All My Love and it sums up a a wonderful period of my life, you know, the sixties.

Speaker 430:57

If I fell in love with you, would you promise to be true And help me understand Cause I've been in love before And I found that love was more than just holding hands

Speaker 431:15

If I give my heart to you

Speaker 431:22

I must be sure from the bed

Presenter31:25

Beatles and if I fell. So Christmas is going to be a traditional family business for you, is it?

Presenter31:31

Yeah.

Phil Collins31:31

It's a it's a it's a t happy sad, you know, my my father died Christmas morning.

Presenter31:31

You say

Phil Collins31:35

So it's very

Phil Collins31:37

I mean, I I I don't get too depressed about it any more, I don't get too sad about it anymore. I I remember him, you know, but I don't g don't but at one point it was kind of very hard. It's like when something like that happens on an event like that, it's very hard to sort of think of it.

Phil Collins31:51

Separate the two events, yeah.

Presenter31:52

How many years ago is that?

Phil Collins31:53

So twenty-one years ago. But um

Presenter31:56

My mother was

Phil Collins31:56

But my mother always comes over and we have a very, very family Christmas.

Presenter32:00

Anne, in the privacy of this room, you can tell us what are you giving your wife for Christmas?

Presenter32:06

Still not yet. You're leaving it late.

Phil Collins32:08

Oh, I'm leaving it late. No, I I I am.

Phil Collins32:10

I'll have something.

Presenter32:11

And what does anyone

Phil Collins32:12

Does anyone buy Phil Collins for Christmas? Well, I'm I'm hoping to get a set of bagpipes.

Phil Collins32:17

I love the sound of bagpipes, and it's an instrument that I've always loved.

Phil Collins32:22

And I used it on the new record and I've I've used it on the last record a bit. But I've always loved the sound of it. So that's what I'd like for Christmas.

Presenter32:29

They might get stuck down the chimney then.

Phil Collins32:31

That'll wake me up anyway.

Presenter32:32

Last record.

Phil Collins32:34

Well

Phil Collins32:35

I find this piece of music very moving. This is um a B B C Symphony Orchestra with Leonard Bernstein uh conducting and it's uh Elgar's Enigma variations. And this is the one that I I I love this as as a as a piece of music I love this. It's in the um Nimrod.

Presenter33:51

The BBC Symphony Orchestra conducted by Leonard Bernstein playing Nimrod, one of Elkhar's Enigma variations. So if you could only have one of those records on on a desert island film.

Phil Collins34:01

Helpless Heart is the one I would take with me, I think.

Phil Collins34:04

I can listen to that over and over again, and I I have listened to it over and over again.

Phil Collins34:08

And so I know I can.

Phil Collins34:10

So it's probably important.

Presenter34:11

What book would you like to have with you?

Phil Collins34:14

Well, in contrast with some of this music, I would um

Phil Collins34:17

I would take the prehistory of the far side.

Phil Collins34:20

Which is um

Phil Collins34:21

GARY LARSON COLECTION OF CARTONS

Phil Collins34:25

Gary Larson is one of the I think the funniest cartoonist living. And I I can look at his cartoons and get things different things out of them all the time. And I I just think that uh in contrast to some of this music, I would need to laugh.

Phil Collins34:40

And I think that uh that I would know that I would laugh.

Presenter34:43

Get away from the heavy romance one.

Phil Collins34:45

Yeah.

Presenter34:45

And what about a luxury?

Phil Collins34:48

I take a piano.

Phil Collins34:50

Because

Phil Collins34:51

That's a way of expression, you know, and I would need that.

Presenter34:54

Phil Collins, thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Phil Collins34:57

Mm, haven't done it.

Presenter34:58

And uh and happy Christmas. Happy Christmas to you, T C.

Speaker 235:08

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.