Frank Bruno

Speaker 20:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 20:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen ninety three and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:29

My Costaway this week is a boxer. He was born and brought up in Wandsworth, the son of God fearing immigrants from the West Indies. Their strict discipline didn't prevent him from running wild, and he eventually found himself in a special school, where an enlightened head master encouraged him in his appetite for boxing.

Presenter0:46

The result was that at the age of eighteen he won the amateur heavyweight championship at Wembley. He turned professional, and by 1986 he was the European champion. Now thirty one, his sights are still set on becoming world champion. Beaten by Mike Tyson in'89, he's waiting to meet Lennox Lewis in September this year. Despite his sense of comedy and gift for one liners, he disowns being a Mr Nice guy. In the ring, he fights to win, a peaceful man, he says, in a violent sport. He is Frank Bruno.

Presenter1:18

Frank, your life is a bit of a fairy tale, really, isn't it? I mean, you left school with no qualifications saying that you wanted to be the heavyweight champion of the world and you wanted to be a m multi-millionaire.

Speaker 21:19

It is a bit of a

Frank Bruno1:25

You want

Speaker 31:26

Uh

Frank Bruno1:26

Right.

Presenter1:27

You're not the champion yet, but you're presumably a multi-millionaire.

Frank Bruno1:29

Zero.

Frank Bruno1:30

I'm not too sure about the multi-millionaire. If you take the multi-millionaire into consideration of John Major's forty five percent off the top and you've got to pay V A T and Live Above Bald and all them sort of things, but I I I'm comfortable, I must say.

Presenter1:42

You don't want for a bit of

Frank Bruno1:44

Um, yeah, we always we're all human beings soon, no matter what you do in life, we always want for a little bit more. It ain't the greediness in it, it's just a human being. You always strive, and I think if you just settle for just that, you know what I mean, that you you gotta keep hungry and keep striving for more. I'm hungry, you know.

Presenter2:00

What about the Mr. Nice Guy thing? I mean, you you have you you are Mr. Nice Guy to outward view and huge amounts of affection wherever you go. Children follow you like Pie Piper, you know.

Frank Bruno2:04

Thank you very much.

Frank Bruno2:08

Yeah.

Frank Bruno2:11

Yeah.

Presenter2:11

Do you enjoy that popularity? Is it important?

Frank Bruno2:13

It's nice, you know, because um I w as I said when I left school I didn't have no qualifications or nothing like that. So doing well in my life, ha ha has how well I've done so far. I've met so many people, got MBE, met the Queen, met the Queen's husband, met Prince Charles, met Princess Die. You know, it's unbelievable and and the fairy tale hasn't even finished yet, so it's a nice thing.

Presenter2:37

So doesn't that make it doubly difficult, though, if you spend your life being nice to people and enjoying them liking you?

Frank Bruno2:41

And enjoy

Presenter2:44

to turn into an animal when you get into the boxing room.

Frank Bruno2:45

Sue, I'm just myself, to be quite honest. I don't have to sort of um I'm not acting, I'm just trying to be Frank Bruno as Frank Bruno is. And if I be Frank Bruno and it winds up some people, I can't make everybody happy, it winds up some people, but um

Presenter3:00

So Frank Bruno's got a vicious streak that he can kind of press the button and bring out when he gets into the boxing ring.

Frank Bruno3:05

Um most definitely because um when you get into the boxing ring when as I'm getting older, you know what I mean, I'm not getting no prettier, I've gotta get a bit more vicious when I go into the ring.

Presenter3:14

But it's a pretty terrifying place in that boxing ring, isn't it?

Frank Bruno3:17

Um very, very much so, you know what I mean? But um we all gotta do something in life, you know. Boxing is very, very scary, very, very dangerous, but so is so so many other sports too.

Presenter3:27

But how do you feel when you walk on, you know, in all that hype like you did recently in Birmingham at the NEC?

Frank Bruno3:31

Keep in Birmingham at the N E C.

Presenter3:33

People shouting for you, an awful lot of aggro in the air as you walk on through there in your satin dressing gown.

Frank Bruno3:35

But an old f

Frank Bruno3:37

As you walk on through there

Frank Bruno3:40

That's something now silk actually

Presenter3:41

Is it still

Frank Bruno3:44

Yeah.

Presenter3:45

But what's going through your head then?

Frank Bruno3:47

For the Card of Truth Williams fight I'd trained three months, two weeks for that fight, and I've done so much training I was just concentrating I couldn't wait to get in there.

Presenter3:54

So there's no room for fear.

Frank Bruno3:55

No, no room at all for fear. You know, the fear is when you're training and got leading up to the fight.

Presenter4:00

But there's room there for prayer. You pray before.

Frank Bruno4:03

Oh yeah. Um, I w I believe in God and I always have believed in God ever since I was alive because my mum used to force me to church, beat me up and send me to her church, you know. I believe in God and that's where I get some of my strength or most of my strength from.

Presenter4:16

And you you make the sign of the cross before every round.

Frank Bruno4:17

Yeah, try to try to

Presenter4:19

But I mean, isn't that really very difficult to ask God to help you beat the living daylight out of another machine?

Frank Bruno4:23

Uh it's not it's just a um a form of strength, Sue. Not asking God for for me to beat him up, just getting my strength from the man I believe in, you know?

Presenter4:31

Right. We'll talk some more about it in a minute, but let's have your first desert island discuss.

Frank Bruno4:34

Yeah.

Presenter4:35

What is it?

Frank Bruno4:36

What is it again? You think you've got the name? No, Switzerland, I know that. It's Whitney Houston. Just the lone.

Presenter4:38

Yeah.

Frank Bruno4:45

Yeah, just learning talking about it. Why do you want that? I like that because it's a nice tune, mellow tune. It reminds me of Laura when I first met her at Batsy Party roller skating. And it's a nice mellow tune by Whitney Houston. If you listen to it, you don't have to click your toes, you don't have to do nothing. Just get into the rhythm of it and fantasize, you know. It's a nice tune.

Presenter4:46

Why do you want that?

Speaker 35:03

Tell me, are you really

Speaker 35:07

And therefore no more.

Speaker 35:11

Or is it just the lonely talking again?

Speaker 35:19

By a real eye.

Speaker 35:22

My love boy, or is it the lonely talking again?

Presenter5:32

Whitney Houston and Just the Lonely Talking Again. Tell me about Bruno the Boy, Franklin you were christening.

Frank Bruno5:38

Oh yeah, Frank Franklin. That's right. That's I was christened that, yeah. Is that with your mother?

Presenter5:42

Is that what your mother used to call?

Frank Bruno5:43

And my dad used to call me that, you know, not not Franklin, Tranklin.

Presenter5:47

Does she still call you, Franklin?

Frank Bruno5:47

Does she still

Frank Bruno5:49

Yeah, she calls me trankline. Trankline, you know what I mean? There's a West Indian coming out in there. Tranklin!

Presenter5:55

But you were born and bred in Wandsworth, in South London.

Presenter5:59

the youngest of six children.

Frank Bruno6:00

Youngest of six young.

Presenter6:01

Tell me about that early those early years, about your house and your family. What was it like in Wandsworth?

Frank Bruno6:05

What you like?

Frank Bruno6:06

Um it was a very very nice house, you know what I mean? A very um big

Frank Bruno6:11

Family sort of thing, people coming in and going, My dad done shift work, my mum done shift work as a day nurse nursery is a bit confusing at times, you know.

Presenter6:19

But it was nice, neat and tidy.

Frank Bruno6:21

How very neat and tidy. I got sent to boarding school at eleven, so I didn't see most of my younger days as regards thirteen, fourteen, fifteen,'cause I came home every three weeks, so I didn't get the time to really spend my young days at home.

Presenter6:32

Hm. But I want to talk to you about about your boarding school. I mean, it was a a special what we used to call a proved school, wasn't it?

Frank Bruno6:33

But I want to talk to you about about your

Frank Bruno6:36

Yeah.

Frank Bruno6:38

Um I would say it's a school for difficult children. What?

Presenter6:41

Yeah.

Frank Bruno6:42

From broken up homes, can't control them, all combination of cocktail of different people there.

Presenter6:46

So why were you difficult? What did you do?

Frank Bruno6:49

I couldn't really work myself out, you know. My mum said that I was a bit of a bully and I just kept fighting a lot and I was just out of order and she kept on warning me, warning me, warning me.

Presenter6:59

But why do you think you did?

Frank Bruno6:59

But why do you think you did?

Frank Bruno7:03

M uh, I think my dad was more stricter.

Presenter7:05

Did he did he beat you?

Frank Bruno7:06

Oh, beat me.

Frank Bruno7:08

He beat me black and blue. If he um one day when I knew that I'd done something, I would rather sleep out in the garden than go in and see him, but I deserved it and I don't regret him beating me. I wish he would have beat me a little bit more. It might have beat some sense into me. Yeah, I mean. What did he beat you?

Presenter7:17

Was that

Presenter7:21

What did he date you with?

Frank Bruno7:23

Um he beat me with the curtain rail, his shoes, the belt, his hands.

Frank Bruno7:29

He really did steam into me, but I it was a good cause he steamed into me for. He wouldn't just beat me for the sake of beating me, but I was really out of order. I mean, I was big for my age, and I thought I could throw my weight around, so I went to my boarding school and I got beaten up so badly that I knocked it on the head. Did you? Very much so.

Presenter7:46

Tell me how you came to be sent away to that school. What happened? What did you do?

Frank Bruno7:49

I went to Westminster Abbey or something and this girl had a camera and I asked the girl, Can I borrow your camera to take a photograph?'Cause I see some nice views. And I haven't been outside Wandsorf as a kid and I saw some nice scenery and I just wanted to take a picture and I asked the girl to take a picture and this the sports teacher had it in for me. All the time he was harassing me on my back. I couldn't breathe without him saying something and I said they weren't talking to you.

Frank Bruno8:14

And then he slapped me around my face and then we started body popping and wrestling and all them sort of like different things on the floor and um I just ran off and the next day I got called to the headmaster. Did you knock him?

Presenter8:24

Did you knock him out, that teacher?

Frank Bruno8:26

No, I didn't knock him out because uh at that time I weren't getting paid for it, you know, I was like, knock him out, you know what I mean? Because only knock him out when you get paid for it. No

Presenter8:35

So the headmaster sent you the next year?

Frank Bruno8:36

Yeah, the next day, and it was just a different world. I couldn't believe it, and I got expelled. After several warnings, I must mind you, but um. And you cried, didn't you?

Presenter8:41

And you can

Presenter8:44

And you cried, didn't you? You cried.

Frank Bruno8:46

I cried like a big baby, but I think it was the best thing for me. You know what I mean? The man and brother must have been watching me because I'm glad I went to the Boarding School because if I would have stayed at home and gone to secondary school, I would have got myself in serious trouble, I think, with the crowds and people that you would have mixed with.

Presenter9:00

So it was a turning point in your life, listen.

Frank Bruno9:02

Very much so.

Presenter9:02

Let's pause there and have your second record.

Frank Bruno9:04

Cheers Bob Marley One Love

Frank Bruno9:07

There's so much sort of like racial sort of like violence in the world as regards black and white, pink, yellow. And everybody always says what is your favourite or your most powerful wishes that you want in life, you know what I mean? Like people say, I want a million pounds, I want two million pounds, I want five million pounds. I don't want the five million pounds. All I want is there'd be just one love, so there'd be no racialists, no bad vibes towards people, but that's impossible because I'm not God or a magician or nothing like that. But I'll just pick the record. Bob Marley, one love. Cheers.

Speaker 39:38

One weather down

Speaker 39:40

I'd really love to ask

Speaker 39:43

Ah

Speaker 39:44

Is there a place for the

Speaker 39:47

Hopefully sinners who has hurt all mankind just

Speaker 39:54

Save his soul. Believe it.

Speaker 39:57

One love.

Speaker 310:00

One heart, what about Let's Get Together and Bel

Presenter10:08

Bob Marley and One Love. Have have you suffered much in your time from racial discrimination?

Frank Bruno10:13

All the time, you know what I mean? I don't think it never stops until people forget about colour and all them sort of like that.

Presenter10:19

But what do they say to you?

Frank Bruno10:20

Um, they wouldn't say nothing to me, they send you all funny letters and things like that, but I just ignore it'cause they're just cowardy sort of people, you know? They don't put their address on nothing like that, but

Presenter10:27

Hmm.

Frank Bruno10:30

Just one of those things, the hassles of life.

Presenter10:32

So Oak Hall, this school you were sent to, was the turning point in your life, as we say. A Victorian mansion set in eighty acres in Sussex, about forty or so other boys.

Frank Bruno10:39

Is he sussy?

Frank Bruno10:42

Yeah.

Presenter10:43

and um just as rough and tough as you were.

Frank Bruno10:45

I think tap up, yeah.

Presenter10:47

You got beaten up a bit. But you converted to Roman Catholicism when you were there.

Frank Bruno10:51

Ro a Catholic.

Presenter10:52

Yeah.

Presenter10:54

Why did you do that?

Frank Bruno10:55

Um

Presenter10:55

Well she was a

Frank Bruno10:57

But she was a a Pentecost in church and um

Presenter10:59

Turn it.

Frank Bruno11:00

They the school was sort of like a not a Catholic school, but they went to a Catholic church, so I just decided to come a a Catholic. Is there anything wrong with that suit?

Presenter11:09

Not at all. And you and and you've been a practising Catholic ever since?

Frank Bruno11:09

And you and you

Frank Bruno11:12

I don't go to church every single Sunday, but when I can I go to church and um I think that's very private, someone believing in something'cause people start laughing about this and the devil knows what and they think if you believe in God you're some sort of laugh, but

Frank Bruno11:25

I don't sound like a parrot, that's where I get my strength from. I've done well, you know, I'm contented as regards, you know, if someone else has got something, I'm not greedy to have something. I w I'm willing to work for what is mine. And if I see something I like, I'm willing to work for it. I don't want to go and rob no one or

Speaker 311:36

Hmm.

Frank Bruno11:41

Can't beat up someone or extort anything off'em are willing to do a five days a week work, even if it's got to take twenty-four hours.

Presenter11:47

Which you which you might have done. You might have turned to crime perhaps if

Frank Bruno11:50

Um I think so because um

Frank Bruno11:53

When I left boarding school and I started working um sort of like in the building site and there's a metal polisher and there's a sports shop, I didn't see no way. You know, you get thirty eight pounds a week and after you pay tax you get other twenty four pounds. You gotta give your mum some rent out of that, get your bus fare home, buy a little bit of clothes and you ain't got nothing left. My dad died when I was fifteen or fourteen, you know, and I didn't have a man figure in my life to really show me the way. I had my brother Michael Mick but my dad, you can't beat a dad, you know what I mean? And um

Presenter12:23

I mean

Frank Bruno12:25

It was very sad times, in a way, but I just wanted to do something constructive in my life. I was determined.

Frank Bruno12:30

Yeah.

Presenter12:30

And in the end boxing was your salvation.

Frank Bruno12:33

Very, very much my salvation, you know I mean I'd done boxing before I went to Oakal. I started boxing at eight and I had to stop for a little bit because it never allowed boxing. Only if you had a fight, used to put you in the gym, put some boxing gloves on you, and you have to go and knock the granny out of one another and afterwards shake hands and go and have something to eat, you know I mean and be friends and get rid of your aggression. That's most definitely, but it was a sports orientated, let me get my gum shield out, orientated school. So we done every single sports, you name it. Canoeing, walking, water skiing, running, cricket, football, athletics, you name it, we done it. I was always wanting to do something, you know.

Presenter12:46

Yeah.

Presenter12:52

Get rid of your aggression.

Presenter13:12

And you became a model pupil and head boy.

Frank Bruno13:14

Ve at the end, yeah, and I was glad and I was proud of that because a lot of people like my mum said that you never make nothing of yourself because I'm too nutty, you know what I mean? I'm too stupid to do whatever. I think old cool taught me about discipline, respect people, getting up in the morning and looking after yourself and survival in life in general, you know.

Presenter13:34

Next record.

Frank Bruno13:36

Biddy Ocean, well it's appropriate for what we've just been talking about. When the going gets tough, the tough get going and I think all youngsters out there, you know, when they always want to turn to drugs and stay up late and go to these raves and all them sort of like things, they've got to look on the right track and be positive and cut out all that crap and when the going gets tough, the tough get going and just appropriate record I think.

Speaker 314:07

The dick tell you

Speaker 314:10

I got something to say

Speaker 314:14

I'm gonna put this dream in motion

Speaker 314:17

Nevertheless, nothing stand in my way. Well the gun gets stuck.

Presenter14:27

Billy Ocean and When the Going Gets Tough. Your career in amateur boxing, Frank Bruno, was short but spectacular. About one year long and twenty bouts, and you went from being a nobody to being the champion, the ABA heavyweight champion, at eighteen.

Speaker 214:34

Uh

Speaker 314:34

Yeah.

Speaker 214:35

Back.

Speaker 214:37

Yeah.

Speaker 214:39

Yeah.

Speaker 314:39

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 214:40

Uh

Presenter14:43

Youngest ever. But then you hit a big problem because they wouldn't grant you a professional license for it. Why not?

Frank Bruno14:47

That's right. Yeah. I was short sighted in one eye and the rules and regulations of the British Box and Border Control states that if you're looking at something and you've got to spell out the letters, you don't you miss one letter, you can't pass the British Box and Border Control. I think that's stupid, but um You gotta stick to rules and regulations, and they sent me over to Bagatar to get operation on my eye.

Presenter15:06

Now is that the same eye that was damaged when you lost to Mike Tyson in'eighty nine?

Frank Bruno15:12

Um

Frank Bruno15:14

No, he wasn't the same eye, it was a different eye.

Presenter15:16

And is it the same eye as got very nastily cut in the Williams face?

Frank Bruno15:20

No, no, no, no, it's a different idea.

Presenter15:22

Yeah. But it's all round the eyes. I mean, is that considered to be your weak point?

Frank Bruno15:27

And I won't go so far to say it's a weak point, you know what I mean? And people know that you have an operation, they try and go for that, but I I train and that I sort of like compromise for people trying to go for my eyes, so I trained myself to sort of like block'em and get out of the way, duck and dive, as I say against you.

Presenter15:40

But I mean, how great is the fear, you know, with all those punches to the head, how great is the fear of being knocked senseless?

Frank Bruno15:48

Um Sue, I don't the fear is not there because like um yes, boxing is dangerous, but love making today is very, very dangerous. Um um buying a house is very stressful and dangerous, you know what I mean? Anything you do in life is very, very dangerous. It depends how deep you want to go into the the danger of

Presenter16:03

Yes, but

Presenter16:06

Well, I would think I would think you feel fairly deep into it when you're standing there in the ring opposite somebody who's, you know, sixteen or seventeen stone the same as you are. And I mean, boxing is a dangerous sport and you can end up with your brain a bit addled anyway.

Frank Bruno16:07

Yeah.

Frank Bruno16:12

Yeah.

Frank Bruno16:17

You can end up with your brain a

Frank Bruno16:19

Well, my brain was handled before I went in there, so it might do me a favour, it might, you know what I mean, put a little bit of sense in there soon, you know what I mean?

Presenter16:22

Your favorite mic

Presenter16:25

So when you come out at the end of a fight, and I mean, you know, you went

Frank Bruno16:25

I don't

Frank Bruno16:27

Yeah.

Presenter16:29

nearly the whole way, nearly ten rounds with with Truth Williams. I mean do you do you

Frank Bruno16:31

Yeah.

Frank Bruno16:32

Carbon truth, yeah.

Presenter16:33

Do you class yourself as lucky that you're kind of still in one compass mentis piece?

Frank Bruno16:39

Every day I count myself lucky because like um

Frank Bruno16:42

You can go over the road, get run over, you could do anything in this world today

Presenter16:46

But but you now

Frank Bruno16:46

You know,

Presenter16:47

The the sort of arguments I'm putting are the sorts of reasons people give for actually having boxing banned.

Frank Bruno16:50

Does it mean that?

Frank Bruno16:52

Yeah, I don't think they would ban boxing suit and it'd be stupid if they do ban it and it'd be the worst thing they do if they do ban boxing because if they think boxing's bad, go and to some of them unlicensed shows and that's when you'll see how bad boxing is. Unlicensed. It it will be much more worse than what uh anything you've seen. It's got rules and regulations, um boxing, it's getting more safer day by day.

Presenter17:06

Unlicensed.

Frank Bruno17:16

I think they had a survey the other day and of the dangerous sports and bo boxing came out about fourteenth of the dangerous sports. It's much more dangerous than sports, but unfortunately boxing when two men are hitting each other oh, they're ooh, them ladies get a little bit jumpy, you know.

Presenter17:28

Yeah.

Speaker 317:28

Uh

Frank Bruno17:31

Record number four.

Presenter17:32

Uh

Speaker 317:32

Number four.

Frank Bruno17:34

Um tell Laura I love her. Um just appropriate record, you know. I'm married to a late lady called Laura, and I think she's the best thing since lice bread to me, personally, you know, and I'd just like to dedicate the record to her, Sue.

Frank Bruno17:49

If you know what one means.

Speaker 317:51

How his car overturned in flames, but as they pulled him from the twisted wreck, with his dying breath, they heard him say, Tell Laura I love her, tell Laura I need her, tell Laura not to cry, my love for her.

Presenter18:18

Ricky Valence and tell Laura I love her and all the boom boom boom boom.

Speaker 318:22

Boom, boom, boom, boom. Just like that.

Presenter18:24

There's a lot of boom boom boom boom with you banging on the desk in here as well. So you met Laura, your wife, in 1981?

Speaker 318:25

Bum bum bum are you banging on the desk in here as well?

Frank Bruno18:32

Mm.

Presenter18:32

At Battersea Roma Skating Park

Frank Bruno18:34

Yeah.

Presenter18:34

Because she pinched your button.

Frank Bruno18:35

That's right, pissed my big black ass. Yeah.

Presenter18:38

And you come a long way since.

Frank Bruno18:39

Oh yeah, can't complain, Sue.

Presenter18:41

You've recently moved house. You've got an even bigger house now.

Frank Bruno18:44

Um not too not too bad, you know, not not can't really complain.

Presenter18:47

What's it got? It's got stables.

Frank Bruno18:49

Um yeah, it's got stables, yeah. It's got a toilet. It's got lights.

Presenter18:58

He's got some bedrooms. He's got a vast garden, which is Laura's love.

Frank Bruno19:02

Yeah, very very and I like gardening as well and like the weather's nice and you can get a wicky tan out there, you know.

Presenter19:07

And you've got um two little girls well m medium sized girls

Frank Bruno19:11

Um, yeah, and they're getting bigger, Nicola and Rachel, you know.

Presenter19:14

But do they ten and six?

Frank Bruno19:15

Ten and seven. Ten and seven.

Presenter19:16

Yeah. Are you very strict with them? You were talking earlier about how it was a good thing to beat children. I mean, I do

Frank Bruno19:22

I couldn't, you know what I mean? I don't think I've got to beat him. All I've got to do is raise my voice to him, and that's enough.

Presenter19:26

Yeah.

Presenter19:27

But you're strict with them. I mean

Frank Bruno19:28

I try and be strict with them. You see, I was away from my family, my home, so I miss most of my childhood of growing up with my mum and my family and all them sort of different things. So I want to show my kids, spend a little bit of time here and there and show them love. Sometimes I could squad them a little bit too much, but I love them.

Presenter19:42

It is some kind of

Presenter19:46

Tell me about you and training. I mean, w when you get up in the morning, you immediately go into this kind of routine. You run and then you

Speaker 319:52

Uh

Frank Bruno19:52

And then you

Presenter19:53

row or or you climb or yeah whatever you do, do press on

Frank Bruno19:54

Won't you

Speaker 319:55

Uh

Frank Bruno19:55

Yeah.

Speaker 319:56

Yeah.

Presenter19:57

How much weight can you lose from the moment you get up in the morning to the end of your training session?

Frank Bruno20:02

Sue, I can lose nine pounds in liquids in one session. I've lost a stone once when I went to America and that was the most weirdest thing in the day.

Presenter20:10

But then you g you you eat you eat hugely, you eat anything.

Frank Bruno20:13

I try and eat common sense, pasta, fish, um salads.

Presenter20:16

What do you eat for an average breakfast?

Frank Bruno20:18

Um some alpine, some porridge, some cornmeal porridge, egg, bacon, sausages, sometimes steak, sometimes um liver and bacon, toasts, sometimes water, a lot of fruit, grapes. It depends, you know.

Presenter20:33

So it's a huge male.

Frank Bruno20:34

It is a huge meal, but if you put a lot in, you've got to, you know what I mean, put some in the tank, you know?

Presenter20:38

Class

Presenter20:39

And when you're in training for a fight, you you sort of go into purdah, don't you? You go away from her.

Frank Bruno20:41

Yeah.

Frank Bruno20:43

Away from home. Yeah, to Springs, a training camp, what they're set up for me, like it's the most beautifulest training camp you could ever wish to go for. It's a health farm with a golf course. The people there treat me more better than Backham and Pellis. I'm there for six weeks, sometimes two months.

Presenter20:56

Yeah.

Frank Bruno20:56

And are you

Presenter20:57

And are you are you allowed during that time to ring home or are you sort of

Frank Bruno21:00

No, I'm not in boarding school. Yeah, I wanna go about five times a day, you know. I mean, sometimes Laura comes down and spends the weekend with me. Yeah, it's not that bad, but it's concentration and getting yourself hungry and psych tough what you gotta do.

Presenter21:11

Yeah, and there comes a point presumably when you have to cut off um relationships, you know, personal relationships.

Frank Bruno21:17

What we're talking about, sex now, Sue? At the end of the day, you beat me around the bush? No, no, no, I wasn't.

Presenter21:19

No. No, I wasn't actually. No, no, I wasn't actually. I was meaning that you've got to stop even thinking about other people or what your wife or your children and their problems. You've got to be single minded.

Frank Bruno21:23

Okay.

Frank Bruno21:27

Most definitely.

Frank Bruno21:30

Concentrate and I've got a good wife who doesn't tell me about the problems. She con that's her department that she controls and looks after and I'm very happy and glad she does it, you know.

Presenter21:38

We can think about sex now with the next record.

Frank Bruno21:40

Oh, Marvy Gay, sexual leading, but you know, that's good at night time when you haven't got a headache, Sue, you know what I mean? Good record, Sue. That's all I can say. Leave the the rest to your imagination.

Speaker 322:02

Go by.

Speaker 322:06

No.

Speaker 322:07

Bye-bye.

Speaker 322:10

Sexual

Speaker 322:12

You may play game.

Speaker 322:17

Feeling is something that's good for me.

Presenter22:21

Marvin Gaye and Sexual Healing.

Presenter22:24

You've only lost three fights in your whole professional career.

Frank Bruno22:26

Free fights, yeah, right. Um, professional out, yeah.

Presenter22:29

Yeah. One to a wonderful name, James Bonecroft.

Frank Bruno22:31

But

Presenter22:33

But the the other two, other than Bone Crusher, were against Tim Witherspoon and Mike Tyson, eighty six and eighty nine, your two challenges for the title for the title. You had a chance against Tyson though, didn't you?

Frank Bruno22:36

Against Tim Witherspoon and Mike Tyson, eighty six.

Frank Bruno22:40

Yeah, yeah.

Frank Bruno22:45

I had a chance, yeah. I think people didn't give me a chance one little bit, but I rocked him and um, like I said, I should have f followed up. I was trying to follow up, but it's easy when you're in there with someone like him, you know, it's easy to say outside, but

Frank Bruno22:58

I don't want to make no excuse to beat me fair and square, sir.

Presenter23:00

You after that were out of the ring for nearly three years from

Frank Bruno23:04

Two and a bit years, yeah. By training nearly every day still.

Presenter23:07

Yes, from early 89 to 91. Was that because of the eye? I mean, you know, I think it's a very good idea.

Frank Bruno23:11

Not really, I was trying to s suss out my life, you know. I had one or two problems here and there and I didn't know what I was gonna do, so I just chilled out for a little bit.

Presenter23:18

Hm. But now we're allegedly you are back in the ring and we're seeing Frank Bruno Mark II.

Frank Bruno23:23

Mm.

Presenter23:23

On course for another go at the title. I mean, they've tried to change your psychology, haven't they?

Frank Bruno23:25

Yeah.

Frank Bruno23:28

Yeah, my trainer has trained my psychology, you know, I mean, be a bit more hungry, I'd be more vicious when I get in there, you know, because it is a vicious sport boxing.

Presenter23:35

And I

Frank Bruno23:35

It's show business with blood, unfortunately, I've got to say that, but it is, you know.

Presenter23:39

And they've taught you some dirty tricks as well. I mean, there was a big.

Frank Bruno23:41

I won't go so fast to say dirty tricks'cause um Sue, I'm not dirty, I'm clean, I have a wash man.

Presenter23:47

Record number six.

Frank Bruno23:48

Record number six, Chris Rear driving home for Christmas. I think this is a wicked record, you know. I like Chris Rear, he's a very good singer. You see, the records what I'm choosing here, I've got a disco at home, but these are mellow sitting down tunes, you know, clicking the big toe and fantasizing.

Speaker 324:05

Will there be a freeway?

Speaker 324:09

Can I feed on holy crown?

Speaker 324:15

So I said for you.

Speaker 324:19

Oh you can hear me when I get through

Speaker 324:24

Run through in the rain

Speaker 324:30

I'm driving home for Christmas.

Presenter24:34

Chris Rhea, driving home for Christmas. Tell me, then, fantasize now, Frank, about life on a desert island. Could you cope all by yourself on the island?

Frank Bruno24:42

I think I could coke by myself. I I used to coke when before I let Laura met Laura. I used to do my washing.

Frank Bruno24:48

For myself, I used to do a little bit of cooking for myself. Once I met Dora, she spoiled me, but if I had to go back there, I think I could s survive. I went to a boarding school with a teacher at the camp.

Presenter24:57

And and could you build a shelter? I mean, are you good with your hands, as they say?

Frank Bruno25:00

Very, very good with my hands. I used to be a carpenter at h um school and I could build with tree sticks and all them sort of like different things and

Frank Bruno25:09

Light the fire and survive, you know.

Presenter25:11

And is there anything that you're frightened of? I mean, let's deal with the island first again. You're frightened of creepy crawlers.

Frank Bruno25:15

Yeah.

Frank Bruno25:17

I don't like mice or things like that or or snakes or nothing like that. I'm not I'm not saying I w you know what I mean, I'm s yeah, I I would respect'em. If a Rock Wiler or Pitbull Terrier came up to me, I would, you know what I mean, say, Yes, mate, I know I'm not supposed to mess about with you. I've got to get a taxi now, taxi and I'd be down that road, but, you know.

Presenter25:36

But if a mouse came into your shelter that you'd built at night, you know, on the edge of the sand, what would you do?

Frank Bruno25:38

I don't know.

Frank Bruno25:41

There would be nobody that I could call really to help me if you're on a desert island and if I was hungry I might put the seasoning up and cook it.

Presenter25:54

What about in real life? What do you fear most in real life? Seriously?

Frank Bruno25:57

Uh

Frank Bruno26:00

What I fail most in real life.

Frank Bruno26:03

I just like what what what puzzles me, you know I mean, like, I've got two girls and they're they're beautiful girls, but a man can survive in this world, yeah, but women growing up, I don't know how my two girls what is it gonna be like when they get twenty five or whatever, you know, I I um that scares me a little bit. That's the only thing I worry about.

Frank Bruno26:23

Yeah.

Presenter26:23

Number seven.

Frank Bruno26:24

Number seven, Heat Wave Always and Forever. You know, um.

Frank Bruno26:28

It's like the Christ Rio is bringing sentimental feelings to me and my wife, Laura, my kids, and always and forever, and I I I hope.

Frank Bruno26:36

And I pray that it'll always be forever, that I'll live with my wife and the kids. And it's just a nice tune, and if you listen to the tune, you know what I mean, Airy.

Speaker 326:45

Will still be the same

Speaker 326:50

Cause we've got a life of love

Speaker 326:54

That won't ever change

Speaker 326:58

Every day, love me your own special way.

Speaker 327:07

Not all my heart Away with a smile

Presenter27:15

Always and forever from HeatWave. So, Frank, what do you think are the odds of you taking on Linux Lewis in September? Do you think it's going to happen?

Frank Bruno27:23

Um, you see, let me just tell you how it how it stands. They've been shouting, talking about they want to fight this one, I'm too greedy. All sorts of like obstacles, what uh it is duckering and diving sort of obstacles.

Presenter27:35

Do you think he's just playing hard to get?

Frank Bruno27:37

I'm not too sure because um

Frank Bruno27:40

It can play hard to get, but you can't wind up people, say you want to do this to that one, beat that one, do this, and devil knows what. That's what I say.

Presenter27:46

And if uh if if you do get to fight him

Frank Bruno27:48

Yeah.

Presenter27:49

Um you watched him fight and beat Tony Tucker.

Frank Bruno27:52

Yeah.

Presenter27:52

What do you think your chances are?

Frank Bruno27:54

Um Sue, I've got the tools. I've said it before he thought Tony Tucker, I've got the tools, I've got the experience and I've got the power to beat Lennox Lewis.

Presenter28:02

But that's you know, you've got to say that. I mean, it's a bit like politicians.

Frank Bruno28:05

I haven't got to say that, Sue, because I haven't got a box at this moment, yeah, because like I'm I've been ducking and diving, I'm comfortable in my life.

Presenter28:14

Yeah, but you're hungry. You said you're hungry and you're hungry for that title.

Frank Bruno28:16

Yeah, I am hungry, but I haven't got to say that. Things what I've said on here, maybe there may be a couple of things where I've might mix up here and there, but I ain't had to say what I had to say. I ain't had to come on this, sorry, I ain't did that ain't aggression. I ain't had to come on this program. I've said things because I wanted them to say. I'm not saying them for hype. I'm not saying them because I'm trying to butter up someone. All I'm trying to do is talk from my heart and say it as it is. You know, I don't have to say that. So you genuinely.

Presenter28:39

And so

Presenter28:41

So you genuinely you genuinely feel very confident about that.

Frank Bruno28:43

Very, very confident. I don't have to say that, Sue, but I'm saying that because you asked me a question and I'm trying to relay in my sort of way as down to earth as much as possible. I'm not saying things because I have to say them, you know, because I think I'm past that stage where I don't. Yeah, I respect myself. You have to in the end.

Presenter28:46

Let's see.

Presenter28:55

No, I know.

Presenter28:59

You have to in the end, don't you, just before a fight happens, you know, in those few weeks just beforehand when, you know, it's p it's part of the game, isn't it? That you kinda sound threatening in in interviews and things and stuff.

Frank Bruno29:00

Don't you

Frank Bruno29:04

And when

Frank Bruno29:06

Thanks for watching.

Frank Bruno29:08

Some people, nervous people, sound threatening, but I'm not saying threatening you. Ask me a question and I'm trying to put the question as straight as possible, not beat around the bullshit, devil knows what. I've done my bit, whatever I've got to do. Pete, it's up to him to do his bit. I've done my bit of the bargaining. I'm waiting here on standby, waiting for him to say yes, he'll defend his type, because the biggest thing will ever happen in this country, there'll be more viewers or more people come to see that than Buckingham Palace, believe me.

Presenter29:36

Absolutely. Just rehearse with me what happens if, first of all, you win.

Frank Bruno29:41

Yeah.

Presenter29:41

You get the title. Would you then go on to defend it or would you quit while you were ahead?

Frank Bruno29:45

I'm telling you exclusively, I will defend it once and I'll retire.

Presenter29:51

Yeah. Is that what you'd really like to do?

Frank Bruno29:54

Yeah, I don't want to be in no record book of defending this one six, seven times and going on. I just want to get it. My ambition is to get it, defend it once and get the monkeys out of there.

Presenter30:02

And if you lose, would you want another f a fourth shot at the

Frank Bruno30:04

Mm.

Frank Bruno30:06

I don't really put them things into my um brain, you know. I'm getting a bit more older and I I I think positive and I think about winning, I don't think about losing because losing is a very bad word.

Presenter30:17

Last record.

Frank Bruno30:18

Cheers, um this last record is a man called Dennis Brown. He's one of the most talented um reggae singers that the world has ever produced. It can sorta like finish off this um selection of records out of this wonderful world. I hope we can s live in a wonderful world. Who knows, but just hopefully it just turns out to be wonderful and it's a nice wicked record. Listen to it and you'll see.

Speaker 330:39

Friends shaking hands, saying, How do you do?

Speaker 330:45

They're really saying, I love you, I hear you. Babies cry, I've watched them go.

Speaker 330:55

They learn much more than I'll ever know And I think to myself

Speaker 331:03

What a wonderful

Presenter31:06

Dennis Brown and Wonderful World. Now, if you could only take one of those eight records, you had to boil it down to one, Frank, on your desert island, which one would it be?

Speaker 331:11

Uh

Frank Bruno31:11

Yeah.

Frank Bruno31:13

Does it

Frank Bruno31:16

Well, I tell you, all I could say is beat the ocean when the going gets tough, the tough gets going because believe me, if you go on the Desert Island, the Sun'll be there, you get a good time. But when the Sun finishes, boy, the going gets tough and the Tough get going and I think that's appropriate record.

Presenter31:31

Okay. Then waiting there for you in you know on the side of the beach is is the Bible.

Frank Bruno31:34

In it.

Frank Bruno31:36

Yeah.

Presenter31:37

and the complete works of Shakespeare.

Frank Bruno31:39

That's wicked, yeah.

Presenter31:40

Yeah.

Frank Bruno31:40

My Juliet though.

Presenter31:46

But you can have one other book on put on top of the pile of your own choosing.

Frank Bruno31:49

I think I have Robertson Crusoe. I will take that on the island with me and chill out with that, learn a few tips, so that's my name.

Presenter31:58

And what about your luxury? I mean, beyond all of these things, you can have one thing. It's got to be something that would really

Presenter32:06

give you great pleasure, whether it be to look at or something to drink.

Frank Bruno32:09

A picture of my family, I think.

Presenter32:10

The picture of Laura.

Frank Bruno32:11

And the family, the two girls, young?

Presenter32:12

Nicolas

Speaker 332:14

Yeah. Okay.

Presenter32:14

Frank Bruno, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your discussion.

Frank Bruno32:17

Thank you very much, Susan. Nice talking to you, Jaho. Yeah. Wicked.

Speaker 232:28

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.