Paul Smith

Speaker 20:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 20:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen ninety two, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:29

My castaway this week is a designer. He's introduced us to the filerfax and boxer shorts and put men back in suits. He began his career in Nottingham in the sixties working in the rag trade. Today he runs an international business with shops in London, Tokyo and New York, and a turnover of fifty six million pounds a year. He's achieved this with a look that is classic but has carefully calculated flashes of colour. However, he says the secret of his success is not just that he knows a lot about style, but that he cares passionately about business too. He is Paul Smith. How involved are you with the day to day running of the shops? Are you there every day?

Paul Smith1:08

Well, not any more, no, because I've set up a sort of structure now and I've got managers in place. But in the early days, I mean, I literally did a absolutely everything, you know, from

Paul Smith1:18

Packing the boxes, unpacking the boxes, serving, doing the windows, everything.

Presenter1:22

But you still serve in the shop sometimes.

Paul Smith1:24

I love it, that's the best bit.

Presenter1:25

Yeah.

Paul Smith1:25

The h the customers, they're the ones that pay my wages, yeah.

Presenter1:29

So you're your own uh chairman, you're your own chief designer, you've got no shareholders.

Paul Smith1:34

Well, there are four of us in the business. There's two people that are involved, uh, John and Barry, who have got shares in the business. They're joint managing directors and been with me for a long time. And of course, Pauline and myself.

Presenter1:46

So there's just the four of you. I mean, have you been have you had offers time and time again to take you over?

Paul Smith1:48

Yeah.

Paul Smith1:51

Yeah.

Paul Smith1:53

Yes, takeover bids and uh unlisted stock market suggestions and all sorts of things, but um I've always uh said no.

Presenter2:01

Why?

Paul Smith2:01

Why?

Paul Smith2:02

I like being my emboss, and I think it's very important in design, especially to be d design led and not be led by the the bottom line, you know, the profits and have the shareholders looking over your shoulders. Very dangerous.

Presenter2:13

But on the other hand, you've done it for an awful long time now. You could just cash it in, take the money and retire to a desert island.

Paul Smith2:20

I could do that, yes. I don't think it'd be as quite as much fun every day as it is now, though.

Presenter2:25

Well, let let's take you away to our our mythical one for a minute. Um install you on the beach and um we turn up the gramophone. What kind of music do you want to hear on it?

Paul Smith2:35

When I was asked to be on a desert island I I just wrote a list very fast and I got to twelve records and then got it down to eight and I thought it was best to do it that way rather than think about it too much. And so um it's a combination of uh r records that uh have memories uh attached to them or just records I like and for no other reason than that. What's the first one? Uh John Lennon, Imagine. I'm I'm sure it's one that you've had many times on the programme before.

Paul Smith3:03

I just think it's a fantastic record and I like the uh imagine all the people living life in peace. I think that's

Paul Smith3:11

Very good for the nineties.

Speaker 23:13

Yeah.

Speaker 13:14

Imagine

Speaker 23:15

There's no heaven.

Speaker 23:20

See if you try. Uh

Speaker 23:27

Oh hello

Presenter3:28

Yeah.

Speaker 23:28

Yeah.

Presenter3:28

Bail

Speaker 23:34

Above us only sky.

Speaker 23:39

Imagine all

Presenter3:40

All the people.

Presenter3:43

John Lennon and Imagine. Um I described the Paul Smith look just now a as classic with stylish flashes of colour, but that's by no means the whole story. How would you describe it to a you know, to a man from Mars, someone who'd never seen it before? What adjectives do you like?

Paul Smith3:58

Easy to wear, no problem clothes, really. I mean, cl if you actually lay a Paulsmith's collection of clothes out on the floor, they all stand up individually. You can add them to your wardrobe. A lot of designers, in my opinion, over design, put too much onto the garments. And what I try to do is keep really, really simple. And I'm very happy that a Paulsmith jacket is put with some of your grandfather's trousers and some shoes from a thrift shop. It's not it doesn't worry me at all. I'm very happy t for people to add and take away something.

Presenter4:31

But the classic look is that is the is the suit and the shirt and often no tie.

Paul Smith4:35

Yes, often no time. I mean, and uh it's the odd mix really. The sort of neat thing might come and go, but at the moment it's very much to do with clashing colors and uh wearing pattern on pattern, so it might be a

Speaker 14:44

Yeah.

Paul Smith4:48

check shirt and a check tie worn together and maybe uh the lining of the suit might be in bright blue or orange or something like that. It was described in the early eighties as classic with a twist and I think that's something that's got overused, but it probably describes it the best.

Presenter5:05

and worn by who? Harrison Ford, Paul McCartney.

Paul Smith5:08

And many more, yeah.

Presenter5:10

David Hopkins.

Paul Smith5:11

David Hockney last week, in fact, uh in the shop.

Presenter5:14

That's the the design and of the clothes themselves. But beyond that there's a whole kind of style, isn't there? And I suppose that's typified by, as I mentioned earlier, the the introduction of the phylafax, which became a kind of icon of of the eighties. Um how did you first come across it? Where and when and how?

Paul Smith5:30

Um a friend of mine had one and he just bought it from a sort of small stationery shop in in London somewhere and uh I just thought it was marvellous and Pauline bought me one and then eventually we managed to track down the the maker who was uh hidden under some railway arches in the east end of London and it was just one man and one lady running this extremely dusty office with one light bulb and I always remember ringing them up. The company was called Norman and Hill, I don't think it exists at all any more. And that the voice on the phone just sort of summed it up. Norman and Hill. No expression, no enthusiasm. I mean it was a a s sort of sad old company that didn't realize they just had such an absolutely totally wonderful, well thought out product.

Presenter6:17

Why have they gone out of business? Didn't you make a packet for them?

Paul Smith6:20

I made a lot of money for them. All I did was introduce it to people. Uh it then got sold out and the f the actual Filofax name is still very big today, I believe, and doing very well all over the world, but in I was the sort of pioneer of it really. The push

Presenter6:30

Duh.

Presenter6:34

What year was that? Do you remember?

Paul Smith6:36

Feels like eighteen fifty but it was probably it was probably uh the seventies, seventy six or something. I can't remember to tell the truth.

Presenter6:45

But it's not just uh accessories again for the clothes going on again, is it? It it's it's other things. I mean, as you go about your work around the world, I mean, you might spot a a kind of Italian toaster or a German clock or something. And that's all become part of you and your hate shop.

Paul Smith6:57

Yeah.

Paul Smith7:00

I hate shops that are museums. I like to somebody to walk in and get that sort of tingly feeling in their tummy and this sort of, you know, child in a sweet shop feeling, you know, that, oh my goodness me, there's so many things here, oh, it's so exciting and so it's not just clothes, it's just things found and and it's very bad taste things put next to very good taste things and it's things for three pounds and things for a thousand pounds. It's just that Aladdin's cave of things that make you smile or whatever.

Presenter7:31

Record number two.

Paul Smith7:34

Bob Dylan, Mr. Tambourine Man, just because I love it really, I suppose. But, um, he Bob Dylan, when I was first starting out, was so

Paul Smith7:42

important because he was so rebellious and had this strange voice and protest songs and I don't know, he was just so different.

Presenter7:51

Hey Mr. Timber Rainman, play a song for me. I'm not sleepy, and there is no place I'm going to.

Speaker 28:02

Yeah.

Presenter8:02

Hey Mr. Tambourine Man, play a song for me. In the jingle jangle morning, I'll come following you.

Speaker 28:10

Yeah.

Presenter8:16

Bob Dylan and mister Tambourine Man.

Presenter8:19

What are the origins of your tastes, then, Paul? I mean, as a as a young lad in in Nottingham, were you kind of aware of style?

Paul Smith8:25

Not at all, no. I I seem to remember having a lot of laughter as a as a schoolboy, but um no interesting clothes, anyway.

Presenter8:32

What did your dad do?

Paul Smith8:33

My father was a credit draper, a credit trader, so he sold uh clothes from home.

Presenter8:39

On tick.

Paul Smith8:39

To people. Yeah, basically, yeah.

Presenter8:42

But you didn't know what you wanted to do, and then your father put you to work in a warehouse.

Paul Smith8:46

Yeah, I left school at fifteen, not really knowing what I wanted to do, and uh my father, because of his connections in his trade, knew somebody who could employ me. So I left school on the Friday, I think, and started work on the Monday, and I was the sort of

Paul Smith9:00

The lad, I suppose, in the warehouse in in Nottingham in the old lace market of of Nottingham.

Presenter9:05

So it was close. It was the rank trade, I mean

Paul Smith9:07

It was it was clothes, yes, but it was children's, women's, men's, but all very totally traditional clothes.

Presenter9:14

Hmm.

Paul Smith9:14

But I didn't have much brush with the clothes to start with. It was mostly to do with undoing the parcels and running to the post office and

Presenter9:20

But but you did eventually start window dressing or something.

Paul Smith9:23

I did, yes. I was a big cyclist and I used to cycle off to Derbyshire at the weekends and also my my father, then and now, was a amateur photographer and I took a lot of snaps as well. So the combination of all those things was that um I used to maybe find a pair of corduroy trousers and a a check shirt and put some heather gathered from a trip to Derbyshire and a photograph of the hill rolling hills taken by my father and um suddenly the warehouse had this thing called display which they'd never ever ever before and everybody used to say oh that's nice Paul and slowly we used to sell more things and suddenly I was a bit more than just the the run around.

Presenter10:06

And so you've got a bit of money in your pocket, obviously, at that stage. Were you spending it on?

Paul Smith10:10

Three pounds five shillings a week, I seem to remember.

Paul Smith10:14

I mean, I was really only interested in cycling at the beginning and then um

Paul Smith10:19

I ended up having a a crash on my bicycle that uh put me in hospital for a while. And when I came out of hospital, that was really when I realized there was more to life than riding a bike and just working in the warehouse. And I by chance met up with a lot of the people from the local art school and uh that was the turning point really in the fact that um suddenly all these words and expressions came into my life that I'd never ever witnessed before and I was

Speaker 210:45

Like what?

Paul Smith10:47

The Bauhaus and Kandinsky and Pop Art and

Paul Smith10:51

Just fascinating things, and I was getting books out of the library, and just this whole world just opened up to me.

Presenter10:58

But you felt you belonged in.

Paul Smith11:01

Yeah, very much so.

Presenter11:03

Record number three.

Paul Smith11:05

Derek and the Dominoes, Layla, Eric Clapton, one of my all-time favourites, followed his career. I think he's probably the simil similar age to me, I'm not sure, but um I like this one because it's got fantastic energy and I think it standing on the beach with a piece of driftwood in my hand I could pretend I was Eric Clapton very easily.

Speaker 111:25

Give you consolation

Speaker 111:43

I'm your dude!

Speaker 111:47

I'm gonna get down to later

Presenter11:54

Derek and the Dominoes and Layla.

Presenter11:57

And then in the second half of the sixties, you were helping a friend run a boutique in Nottingham when a woman walked in who was to change your life. Tell me about her.

Paul Smith12:07

Yeah, I was working in in a shop in Nottingham and uh I met Pauline and um twenty five years later we're still uh together.

Presenter12:16

What did she look like that day she walked through the door of the shop?

Paul Smith12:20

Like a lady from London.

Paul Smith12:23

She had beautiful big sunglasses on, fabulous hair.

Paul Smith12:27

Well, she just looked dynamite.

Presenter12:29

But she was also part of this education you were talking about, wasn't she? I mean, if you'd been told about Kandinsky and Bauhaus before she came, she told you more.

Paul Smith12:38

Yeah. I mean basically what had happened, I'd I'd entered into the fashion world.

Paul Smith12:43

Through my connection with the art school, and then I met Pauline, and she just added to it.

Paul Smith12:49

Paul Smith, as we know it today, is completely to do with Pauline, really, because um.

Paul Smith12:55

She taught me everything I know. Her background was from the Royal College of Art as a trained as a designer, and so therefore um

Paul Smith13:04

In those days it was very much to do with couture fashion, very beautifully made, well proportioned, good quality. And I think that's really w one of the reasons why I'm so successful is because so many of our English designers unfortunately don't put enough importance on quality and cut and simplicity. They put more on uh design, on the seven zips or four pockets and um and she didn't do that.

Speaker 113:26

Yeah.

Presenter13:26

Yeah.

Presenter13:30

But w what then did you, if you like, bring to the party if she knew how to do it and she knew about quality and she knew about cut and design?

Paul Smith13:37

Doing it. After a few years of being together, she encouraged me to open my own shop. So I worked on my free day and saved up some money, £600, and in 1970 opened a 12-foot square box. It wasn't even a shop, it was a back room. And that was Paul Smith's shop. And it was open for two days a week, not the whole week. We bought the clothes at that point for the shop, and then slowly we started to make clothes under the Paul Smith label. And that was the combination of my energy and my enthusiasm and personality and her knowledge.

Presenter14:18

So you were the business, but you have the business acumen in this partnership.

Paul Smith14:22

Well

Paul Smith14:23

Not much business activity in those days, but eventually I did. Yeah, I mean, you know, it w energy, really. Energy, enthusiasm, and uh.

Presenter14:30

And yeah

Paul Smith14:33

Love of life.

Presenter14:34

And and

Presenter14:35

You and Pauline, as you say, are still together. How much does she mind that you, if you like, have had all the glory? It's your name, and everybody talks to you and interviews you, and she's really rather unknown.

Paul Smith14:46

I think that over the years has been a problem sometimes. But I mean

Paul Smith14:52

It's very much a joint thing still. She doesn't work in the business. She's a she's a painter now.

Presenter14:57

But she still inspires you.

Paul Smith14:59

Every day.

Presenter15:02

Next piece of music.

Paul Smith15:04

I can't possibly pronounce any of these things, but it's Tosca as far as I'm concerned, and it, um.

Paul Smith15:10

I have a home in Italy now and uh it just reminds me of lovely summers.

Presenter15:36

I'm so

Speaker 215:38

Yeah.

Speaker 215:44

Or Small

Presenter15:51

It's just a race on T.

Speaker 215:56

Laura le sous mystery.

Presenter15:56

Ah

Speaker 216:02

Le diverse seven legs conform there.

Speaker 216:10

Ah!

Speaker 216:12

Believe on the horse.

Presenter16:17

Luciano Pavarotti singing part of the Aria Recondita Armonia from Puccini's Tosca with the National Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Nicola Rescino.

Presenter16:27

So, Paul Smith, you opened your first shop in Nottingham in 1970 when you were twenty-four, your first shop in London in Covent Garden in 1979, and then through the eighties you expanded into Japan, and now you've got seventy shops there, you're the most successful European designer, and the rest is history. What is it tell me about Japan, what is it about Paul Smith that appeals to them?

Paul Smith16:50

Uh I suppose the Englishness uh and well without being too big-headed about it, I think a lot of it is to do with the fact that I've literally been there every year since I started uh in 1984. I mean I visited in'82, but we opened the first shop in 84 and I've just been every year, two or three times a year, met the people, trained everybody there personally, and I s I think they've got a real Paul Smith, and so it's a combination of the the clothes, of course, and uh hopefully my way of working.

Presenter17:23

And obviously you you design suits specially for them, do you? Special sizes and shapes.

Paul Smith17:28

Yes, it's the proportion which is different. Um uh you can't just take two inches off the bottom as everybody thinks, but uh it's the longer backs and

Paul Smith17:37

You know, it's just different really. But it's a lot of hard work because you have to really study the market very carefully.

Presenter17:43

Uh

Paul Smith17:43

Yeah.

Presenter17:43

And do you make those here? Because there was a time, wasn't there, when you made everything around Nottingham. You tried to sort of really keep the business in.

Paul Smith17:49

Yeah, I mean uh almost all the clothes are made uh in a sort of eighty mile radius of Nottingham. But in the case of Japan now we have to make the clothes in Japan because it was just becoming with seventy shops too difficult to supply them on a regular basis.

Presenter18:03

But what about the the fabric and the cloth? I mean, you you've not always although you've kept the work in and around Nottingham in the main, you haven't been able always to find the cloth here at home, have you?

Paul Smith18:12

No, I mean a lot of the cloth is still from Ireland, Scotland, um, England, but a lot we have to buy from other countries, especially Italy. We buy a lot from Italy.

Presenter18:22

Now why? Is that because you couldn't get British manufacturers to make what you wanted?

Paul Smith18:25

Yeah, I mean it's just very sad because we've over the years we've really lost a lot of our textile industry to the Italians especially. Lack of uh forward thinking I think on behalf of a lot of the mills, um no reinvestment, no pride, all the pride had gone out of the factories and it was very hard. But um I persevered with them and uh a lot of them are still working with me today.

Presenter18:51

Record number five.

Paul Smith18:54

This is a very energetic one. This is U Two, even better than the Real Thing, which is a all my other choices have been from the past, and this one is very much of today. I think they're a fantastic band and lots and lots of energy, and I think they'll make me feel very strong on my desert island.

Speaker 119:12

What is where it's always been? My head is somewhere in between. Give me one more chance. Let me be your lover tonight.

Speaker 119:28

There is three

Speaker 119:32

Yeah, you stay

Speaker 119:35

You're the real story.

Speaker 119:39

Uh

Presenter19:41

Even better than the real thing, you two. Do you always wear your own clothes, Paul, if you know what I mean?

Paul Smith19:46

I do, yes.

Presenter19:48

When you talk to yourself, I mean, you say Paul Smith as if it's not you.

Paul Smith19:51

I know, it's really odd when you I mean, obviously in

Paul Smith19:55

Many, many conversations you refer to this thing called post.

Paul Smith20:00

Forgetting that it's the guy in the mirror when you're having to shave in the morning, and that's the real Paul Smith. But it is hard sometimes.

Presenter20:03

Good.

Presenter20:05

About the

Presenter20:07

But when you want something new you just snip into the shop and pick it up, do you?

Paul Smith20:10

Yeah, well my studio's above the main shop, so um I'm very uh fortunate because I just go downstairs. I like what I design, so it's good.

Presenter20:19

Um you said just now that you you um you know you want people to to feel a sort of tingle, as it were, when they come into the shop, and that that's I mean, it seems to me that it's also that you have a passion for shops themselves, isn't it? I mean, you you out you like the whole business of the shop.

Paul Smith20:35

Yeah, I think it's very important that if you have shops, that they're just not boxes like my original one, which I described as a box, but I mean that when you walk in they feel loved and cared for, you know, the smell of polish and the sense that somebody's actually taking care of them. Most of my shops around the world are made from old wood, which has been found from unfortunate shops that have closed down around the countryside. For instance, my one of my shops in Tokyo is an old chocolate shop from the north of England, and another one is a chemist's shop. And we're sort of constantly on the look. And I've got a warehouse in Nottingham which just is full of

Paul Smith21:16

counters and shelves and floorboards.

Presenter21:18

I bet it's what you perceive as being essentially English.

Paul Smith21:22

Yes, I because I think the thing is with design is that everything's designed. Uh everything. A dustbin, this microphone in front of us, everything's designed and so therefore I'm interested in anything that's been designed and so it can be something as simple as a a candlestick or as complicated as a very modern computer, you know.

Presenter21:44

But it has to have a a consistency in order to work within your shops and within the whole thing, it has to have a consistency, and that consistency is that it's your taste.

Paul Smith21:52

That's right, it's chosen by one pair of eyes.

Presenter21:56

Next piece of music

Paul Smith21:58

I suppose it's uh very normal for for somebody my age to choose the Rolling Stones and I have sympathy for the devil. I've just got to have one Rolling Stones on my island.

Speaker 122:11

A man of wealth and taste

Speaker 122:16

I lay traps for troubadours who get killed before they reach Bombay.

Speaker 122:27

Pleased to meet you. Hope you get my day. It's oh yeah.

Speaker 122:34

But what's puzzling you is the nature of body.

Speaker 122:41

Yeah.

Presenter22:41

The Rolling Stones and Sympathy for the Devil. You were you were tipped to win the Designer of the Year award this year here in Britain, Paul, but you announced that you didn't want to be considered. It is the most prestigious title that Britain has to offer a fashion designer. Wh why weren't you interested?

Paul Smith23:00

Well, I was nominated. I might not have won it, but I was nominated. I dec declined the nomination because I was sort of trying to make a stand in a way, because um I just feel that

Paul Smith23:10

Our industry is not nearly as important as it could be. And it wasn't actually the awards I was really saying no to, it was just trying to sort of uh get attention to the sort of plight of uh designers in this country. Unfortunately, we have uh so many designers that can't progress because there isn't an industry to back it up.

Presenter23:30

But who should be helping them? Who should be doing what?

Paul Smith23:32

I think it's a very, very long-term project. It's not something that can be handled overnight. And I should I think that somebody

Paul Smith23:39

like the CBI and the um DTI should really get involved in learning about not just the clothing industry, but the world of design. I think people have to understand that design can make money.

Paul Smith23:54

and that in a lot of countries around the world designers of any sort are on the board or very important, well paid people, and uh they're not put at the bottom of the list like they are in so many companies over here.

Presenter24:07

And there are a lot of young people out there, you feel, with the talent.

Paul Smith24:10

absolute gold mine of talent in this country. I mean the the colleges are turning out really good product designers, industrial designers, fashion designers, graphic designers, but often they they have to start businesses on

Presenter24:10

Yeah.

Paul Smith24:25

their mother's savings of five thousand pounds or try to run a business on their Visa card. Or I mean, you hear absolutely stupid stories. I mean, really mad stories when real talent is is lost just because it can't progress because there's no backing and no understanding.

Presenter24:42

Do you meet them? Do they come and see you?

Paul Smith24:44

I meet up really a lot. I mean, I think I've got I don't know how many young students and designers' jobs over the last

Paul Smith24:51

Ten years.

Presenter24:53

What about your mum and dad, who are back at home in Nottingham? What do they make of you and all your great success?

Paul Smith25:01

I think my mum likes going in the post office and then they say, Oh, I saw your poor

Paul Smith25:06

I think it means a lot more to mum than seeing me in vogue or whatever, just to go to the local shops and uh you know, they're very proud.

Presenter25:15

Mm.

Presenter25:16

And have you been able to make life a lot more comfortable for them?

Paul Smith25:20

a little contribution, but they they do very well on their own without me. They're they're um very independent and uh you know, they're an inspiration.

Presenter25:34

Record number seven.

Paul Smith25:36

Bob Marley, is this love? I just love uh reggae music. In fact, uh this this record reminds me of the time that I had a fashion show in in Paris when for two years I'd had fashion shows that were very typical British and the clothes were all tweedy and uh sort of eccentric but but quite British. And then I put on a fashion show not in a sort of typical interior of Paris which was covered in sort of paintings and things, but it was in a empty concrete art gallery and at the clothes were very bright colours and I played all reggae music and everybody hated it.

Paul Smith26:17

It was uh so scary, but in fact it went on to being the one of the best selling collections ever, but it was so radical and it's something that I daren't uh repeat. It was very frightening. But I love the music anyway.

Speaker 226:31

Oh no, I love you.

Speaker 226:34

And treat you right

Speaker 226:36

I wanna love you.

Speaker 226:41

Every day

Paul Smith26:41

And every night we'll be together.

Paul Smith26:48

With the roof

Speaker 226:50

Right over our heads, we'll share

Speaker 126:53

Shut up

Presenter26:57

Of my single page

Presenter27:00

Bob Marley and Is This Love? Um so you and Pauline have been together for 25 years now. Yes. Never got married.

Paul Smith27:06

Yes.

Presenter27:08

N they want to?

Paul Smith27:11

Uh we never talk about it. We're very happy, so

Paul Smith27:14

I don't think it would really make any difference now.

Presenter27:16

And you never had children?

Paul Smith27:17

No. Pauline has two sons and uh I was very much part of bringing them up, so we were happy with that.

Presenter27:24

And they're they work in the business.

Paul Smith27:26

One of them does, yeah.

Presenter27:28

And I suppose, really, you built an empire instead. What what are you going to do with the empire? I mean, you were.

Presenter27:34

A child of the sixties who who came good in the eighties, you know, and the Philofax and all, as we've said, and and Thatcherism and so on. What happens to you in the nineteen nineties?

Paul Smith27:39

Yeah.

Paul Smith27:45

Well, I hope I wasn't too much a sort of 80s man because I don't think of myself as an eighties man. I mean the file facts I happened to find, but what happened to it after that was not good, I don't think. And I wasn't happy with the big bang and I wasn't happy with the greed of the eighties. I was appalled by it. And I think the reason my why my business is not suffering from recession at all is because I wasn't greedy in the 80s and because I left lots of space to continue to grow. And so I don't think of myself as an 80s person at all. I just think I did it was just part of the growing process. The nineties.

Presenter28:22

So you were you were quite cautious in the eighties.

Paul Smith28:24

Very, yeah, very. Very cautious, very happy with my lot, you know.

Presenter28:29

Refuse to be tempted in the middle of the morning.

Paul Smith28:30

No car phones, no Rolls-Royces. I mean, I just just enjoyed myself, you know, enjoyed life and and the business grew.

Paul Smith28:38

completely naturally. There was never a plan. There's never been a big plan and a big expansion plan and we just we always worked within our means and we just grew naturally.

Presenter28:49

But I bet you got it to car telephone now.

Paul Smith28:51

I haven't.

Presenter28:52

Yeah.

Paul Smith28:52

I loathe them.

Presenter28:54

You haven't got a Rolls Royce.

Presenter28:56

What'd you spend your money on?

Paul Smith28:58

I've got a very nice hou well, I have two very nice houses.

Paul Smith29:01

one in Italy and one in London and um

Paul Smith29:04

We have nice furniture in the houses and we travel quite a lot. I think travel is very important, especially for my work. In fact, the money we earn a lot goes back into the continuing expansion of the business because it's still self-financed as a company. And so therefore, as you grow, you always need money.

Presenter29:26

And do you have, alongside all of that great success story, do you have a

Presenter29:32

A fear, sometimes, in the wee small hours, that you'll run out of inspiration.

Paul Smith29:36

Absolutely not, no. The ideas are the easy things. It's uh it's making them work that's the hard thing, which goes back to my worry about the the industry of uh in this country. I think the ideas we have in this country. I I was told somewhere that uh fifty five percent of the the world's most innovative ideas come from this country, and when it actually comes to putting them into practice it's three percent or something. I mean, you know, we're lousy at making our ideas work in this country, but hopefully Paul Smith as a company has learnt how to put my ideas, Paul Smith's, into work. And uh so the ideas don't worry me at all, but making the clothes beautifully, delivering them on time and then getting paid for them

Paul Smith30:23

in this recessionary time is the hardest thing.

Presenter30:27

Last record.

Paul Smith30:29

Well, Van Morrison, all of my records could have been Van Morrison. I just think he's uh fantastic and he's helped me round the world many, many times. I travel the world a lot on my own and um on my little headphones. He's got me round the world. I've only heard this one about eighteen thousand times, so I suppose I can live with it on a desert island.

Paul Smith30:50

Queen of the Slipstream, Van Morrison.

Presenter30:54

You're the queen of Mr Stream

Presenter30:57

Without each other.

Presenter31:01

You will cross many waters to him.

Paul Smith31:05

Uh

Presenter31:05

Yeah.

Presenter31:08

You drank of the fountain of innocence.

Presenter31:15

Yeah.

Speaker 231:15

It experienced belongs. Winter in here.

Presenter31:22

Van Morrison and Queen of the Slipstream. Now I take it from what you said that there's little doubt in your mind Van Morrison would be the one record out of the eight that you'd keep choose above the others. What about your book?

Paul Smith31:31

That's right.

Presenter31:34

What would you like to take as well as the Bible and Shakespeare?

Paul Smith31:36

Well, I I have to admit that I'm not a reader at all, because I've got this very, very busy mind and it just leaps around all the time, and I just can't hold hold a book for any length of time, so I thought I'd be very silly and choose the Be No.

Paul Smith31:52

And it could be any Be no, but 1974 was a pretty good one, because it had sixteen pages of Roger the Dodger.

Paul Smith31:58

Abino Annual. Abino annual. Yeah. Oh yeah, it's not sorry, I should have said annual. Yeah. It's nice and thick.

Presenter32:00

Right.

Paul Smith32:05

I just think it's silly, it makes me laugh, uh it's

Paul Smith32:08

The drawings are great and uh it's to do with youth.

Paul Smith32:12

And I wouldn't read a book anyway.

Presenter32:14

And your luxury.

Paul Smith32:16

Because of my busy head, I need a notebook with a pencil with it, please. Uh because I just have so many ideas all the time that I've probably got one in my pocket right now somewhere. But uh

Speaker 232:29

But you can't draw.

Presenter32:30

Uh

Paul Smith32:30

I can't draw, but I can make notes. I can sort of draw.

Speaker 232:33

Uh

Paul Smith32:34

Sort of. But it's it's to do with notes. I've always got a little orange book in my pocket and um

Speaker 232:34

Bahu.

Presenter32:34

Yeah.

Paul Smith32:40

My whole collection is is done by words and by s funny little drawings and I'd have to have a a notebook outside. I just that would be awful.

Presenter32:50

Paul Smith, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island is.

Paul Smith32:53

Thank you.

Speaker 233:01

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/radio four.