Terry Waite

Speaker 30:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 30:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen ninety two, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:31

My Castaway this week is an ambassador of the Anglican Church. He became a familiar figure in Britain in the nineteen eighties when he helped negotiate the release of British hostages first in Iran and then in Libya. His tall frame and bearded face seemed to epitomise unassuming British calm in the tortuous world of Middle Eastern politics.

Presenter0:51

But in nineteen eighty seven things changed. While trying to engineer the freedom of men held in Lebanon, he was taken hostage himself. He spent nearly five years as a prisoner, much of it in solitary confinement, and he was frequently beaten.

Presenter1:05

He was finally released and came home at the end of last year when, though physically weaker, his courage and resilience were still there for all to see.

Presenter1:14

He is, of course, Terry Waite.

Presenter1:17

How hard is the process of rehabilitation, Terry? Is it a very difficult path to tread back to normal life?

Terry Waite1:23

Well, it has its difficulties. One of the things that surprise me is uh how long it's taken to get physically well again.

Terry Waite1:30

I came out and I felt a bit groggy.

Terry Waite1:33

And uh I went to the R A F station at Lynham for a good medical check out.

Terry Waite1:38

And um I thought that would be

Terry Waite1:41

Over in a few weeks, but in fact it's taken several months to get physically strong again.

Presenter1:45

But being in solitary confinement for so long certainly didn't seem to us when we saw you when you first arrived back on British soil at RAF Lynham to have affected your thought processes at all. You were incredibly lucid, incredibly articulate, you had a sense of humour, there was no bitterness in what you said, you thanked all the right people.

Presenter2:03

Was that a speech, can I ask, that you had worked on, in a sense, over the years? Had you sat in your cell and thought, This is what I'll say when I get out?

Terry Waite2:11

Well

Terry Waite2:12

Unconsciously maybe, but not consciously. I hadn't consciously prepared a speech at all, in captivity.

Terry Waite2:18

But I suppose running through my mind during the years of captivity there were thoughts as to what I might have to say when I came out, but it really wasn't a conscious process.

Presenter2:29

But on working in working on it unconsciously, had you decided that you would display no bitterness and no rancor, that you would talk not of regret,

Presenter2:40

But speak positively.

Terry Waite2:42

When I knew that I was captured, I said there are three vows that I will take, which will help me survive.

Terry Waite2:48

No self pity.

Terry Waite2:50

At no regrets.

Terry Waite2:52

And no over-sentimentality. And I s did my best to try and stick by those. I didn't always stick by them by any means. You know, they're like New Year's resolutions, you do your best.

Presenter3:02

Let's turn to your music then. I I suspect again that you're you're one of the few people who would actually know which eight records you would need on a desert island. Did did you ever think of your desert island discs, as it were, in your

Terry Waite3:14

Oh, frequently, because I had to play a lot of mental games, if you like, in the four years of almost four years of total isolation.

Terry Waite3:22

I had to keep myself mentally alive.

Terry Waite3:25

So I wrote books in my head, I wrote my

Terry Waite3:28

Autobiography in my head.

Terry Waite3:30

And frequently I'd play Desert Island discs to myself.

Presenter3:34

So wha w what's the first record that you you might have played on your particular desert?

Terry Waite3:38

Well, I'm extremely fond of the music of Bach, and I've chosen today for the first piece um

Terry Waite3:46

Glen Gould playing part of Bach's French suite number five. And the reason I've chosen that particular piece is

Terry Waite3:53

That

Terry Waite3:55

You have to when you're in captivity, you have to somehow discover your own way of surviving. You have to discover your own individuality in a new way.

Terry Waite4:05

And I like Glengould because he was a marvellous individualist. He had the courage to make his own interpretations. He wasn't afraid, and he was a bit eccentric. And sometimes when you hear him recorded, you know, you can hear him humming on the record and oh, well, it doesn't matter, it's fun. And he was such a superb musician. So he's dead now, of course. But

Terry Waite4:28

That is a salute to him.

Terry Waite4:30

And there's a a memory of the days when I recollected Bach.

Terry Waite4:34

I like this piece.

Presenter5:35

Glenn Gould playing part of Bach's French suite number five in G major.

Presenter5:39

You were brought up i in the village of Stile, tiny little village in in Cheshire, and your father was the the village bobby on his bicycle.

Terry Waite5:46

Mm-hmm.

Presenter5:48

Was was he a big man like you?

Terry Waite5:49

He was he was very tall.

Terry Waite5:51

He was uh quite a disciplinarian, but he was uh

Terry Waite5:56

essentially very soft hearted.

Presenter5:57

What would have been your father's?

Presenter6:00

Message, what sort of children did he teach you and your your sister and your brother to be?

Terry Waite6:05

I think he had.

Terry Waite6:08

He had a passionate concern for truth.

Terry Waite6:11

He was a man of iron integrity. Sometimes one might, on reflection, almost say

Terry Waite6:17

His integrity was almost too great, if you can understand what I mean. Because he'd pushed truth to the the limit, and in some ways, because he pushed it so hard, I think sometimes that made me a little afraid.

Terry Waite6:32

And

Terry Waite6:33

I would think that

Terry Waite6:34

But the older I get,

Terry Waite6:36

the more I realize how

Terry Waite6:39

Essential in how beautiful truth is.

Terry Waite6:42

And how

Terry Waite6:45

He was so right in what he was trying to communicate to us, and I think effectively communicated to us.

Presenter6:51

Some more music

Terry Waite6:52

On record number two.

Terry Waite6:54

It is

Terry Waite6:56

Music of Elgar. I I I I I love for

Terry Waite6:59

the English and indeed the the British composers. We have marvellous composers in in in these islands, Elgar being one of course.

Terry Waite7:08

At this particular piece of music, Song of the Morning,

Terry Waite7:11

And I'm not saying that in French because my children would laugh at me. So I'm saying song of the morning, and you can say it in French afterwards.

Terry Waite7:21

I first heard this piece of music as a signature tune,

Terry Waite7:26

to a B B C Children's Hour play. And the reason it stuck in my mind, and those signature tunes stuck in my mind, was because somehow they had the marvellous link between the feeling of the music and the mood of the play.

Terry Waite7:40

And nowadays, of course, the player's long gone.

Terry Waite7:43

But the melody remains.

Presenter8:45

Elgar's Song of the Morning played by the Brodsky Quartet.

Presenter8:48

Did you have any idea, Terry, a as a teenager, what you might like to do with your life? Did you feel you were cut out for anything in particular?

Terry Waite8:56

Well, first of all I

Terry Waite8:58

I was always very restless and wanted to travel. I remember

Terry Waite9:02

You know, the sweat that went into saving up to buy a bicycle just to get me outside the confines of the village, and then those journeys one took.

Terry Waite9:10

But that wasn't enough.

Terry Waite9:12

And um

Terry Waite9:14

I tried to uh

Terry Waite9:16

leave home at fifteen and join the navy.

Terry Waite9:19

And my father taught me out of that at the very last moment. I can tell you I'd have otherwise I'd have been signed up for something like eighteen years, I don't know how long. But mercifully he didn't let me do that.

Terry Waite9:30

Later on I began to wonder if I had a a vocation in the church.

Terry Waite9:36

And I didn't really know what it was, and uh I went to see whether or not it was a vocation to the monastic life. But then I realized that I was in no way cut out to be a celibate.

Presenter9:46

But in fact you you did in the end take a degree in theology through through the church army, didn't you?

Terry Waite9:52

Pretty

Presenter9:53

I wonder you know, you're regarded now so much as as as a man of the Church, and perhaps you have better credentials than most for preaching the tenets of Christianity, of faith and hope, and love and truth. Have you thought, since your release, of perhaps becoming ordained?

Terry Waite10:07

No, no, absolutely not. I mean, I was asked many, many times in the past to

Terry Waite10:12

Be ordained.

Terry Waite10:14

And um

Terry Waite10:15

It's never never been my vocation.

Terry Waite10:18

I have a long way to go before I can ever

Terry Waite10:21

live up to that sort of a a life.

Presenter10:24

Record number three.

Terry Waite10:25

We're record number three.

Terry Waite10:27

This is chosen simply and purely.

Terry Waite10:31

Because it's a beautiful

Terry Waite10:33

Piece of music

Terry Waite10:34

and no other reason.

Terry Waite10:36

Richard Strauss is a

Terry Waite10:38

Last Songs, and this is song number three from the four last songs.

Speaker 411:20

Oh my gosh!

Speaker 411:26

We are in bare skin.

Presenter11:43

Part of Richard Strauss's Beim Schlaffengeen, song number three from the four last songs sung by Jessie Norman, with the Gevanthaus Orchestra Leipzig, conducted by Court Mazor.

Presenter11:54

You and your wife, Frances, Terry, were married in nineteen sixty four, uh and you have four children, including twin daughters. That must have been one of the hardest things to come to terms with, really, that the children you'd left behind as young teenagers were adults when you got back.

Terry Waite12:10

Well, you know, I said to you a moment or two ago that one of the vows I made was no sentimentality or over sentimentality, but

Terry Waite12:19

I mean I confess that it was very hard.

Terry Waite12:22

When I'd been kept for a

Terry Waite12:24

Couple of years.

Terry Waite12:26

and I realized that it would be about that time

Terry Waite12:29

that my two daughters, twin daughters, would be graduating. They were both in Cambridge and they were both um both been uh reading uh French and Italian. I thought, good heavens, you know, I'm going to miss that graduation. It's something I really did want to attend. But then there's a rather nice little story.

Speaker 412:43

Mm.

Presenter12:44

Yeah.

Terry Waite12:45

about that because um

Terry Waite12:47

When I

Terry Waite12:48

was released. Someone wrote to me and said um

Terry Waite12:52

On that same day my daughter graduated, and I had a video camera.

Terry Waite12:57

And

Terry Waite12:58

I looked at it, the tape, and I discovered that I got your daughter's on tape. And he sent me the tape out of the blue. Wasn't that nice of him? And uh so I actually was able to see the uh the whole uh the whole occasion.

Presenter13:03

And the

Presenter13:08

Y your wife, Frances, chose to remain very private during the course of these events, and I wouldn't want to disturb that privacy now. But was that her way of coping, or did she choose to do that for a specific reason?

Terry Waite13:20

And she chose to do it deliberately because she felt that she

Terry Waite13:25

First of all, it was the way in which she could cope, and secondly, it was the way in which she could protect from the family, from

Terry Waite13:33

what could have been a very intrusive uh event in their lives and

Terry Waite13:38

I salute and respect her. I think she behaved absolutely admirably, and she really does have my respect, love, and admiration for the way in which she

Terry Waite13:48

maintained her dignity in those years which were terribly difficult for her.

Presenter13:52

Let's have your next record.

Terry Waite13:55

Oh again, another beautiful piece of music. What I did

Terry Waite13:59

Before

Terry Waite14:01

coming to this um program.

Terry Waite14:03

was two.

Terry Waite14:05

meet with a few of my friends and say to them

Terry Waite14:08

If you were.

Terry Waite14:10

Going to an island, a desert island, what piece of music would you take? And

Terry Waite14:15

One or two of them.

Terry Waite14:16

said this piece of music.

Terry Waite14:18

And uh

Terry Waite14:20

So I said, right, I'll take it, because in so doing,

Terry Waite14:24

I can take you along with me. And one of the things that I've learned over over the years

Terry Waite14:30

is never ever.

Terry Waite14:32

To despise friendship. It's sometimes, again, painful.

Terry Waite14:37

But those who have friends have a marvellous gift, and so if I take this piece of music with me, at least I can take some of the friends with me, and it's um

Terry Waite14:47

part of the slow movement of

Terry Waite14:49

the Schubert String Quintet in C major.

Presenter15:52

Part of the slow movement of Schubert's string quintet in C major, played by the Lindsay String Quartet with Douglas Cummings.

Presenter16:00

Your work subsequently took you around the world, helping to set up hospitals in third world countries, negotiating, talking. So

Presenter16:08

It perhaps wasn't surprising that in nineteen eighty the new Archbishop of Canterbury, Robert Runcie, invited you to help him in his international work. Do you feel perhaps in many ways you were singularly qualified for that role?

Terry Waite16:21

Well, I think in Africa, of course, I'd work quite a lot on the in the field and the area of uh intercultural understanding and problem solving and uh all in the that whole area.

Terry Waite16:31

And so when hostages were taken, it did provide me with a unique opportunity.

Terry Waite16:37

to put these particular understandings into practice.

Terry Waite16:41

And um

Terry Waite16:43

That's what I tried to do. I also

Terry Waite16:45

tried to understand

Terry Waite16:48

The motives of the people who were taking hostages, for example,

Terry Waite16:52

In Iran.

Terry Waite16:54

I made friends, first of all, with one of the um Revolutionary Guards, and he took me to his house, and he showed me a scrap book of members of his family.

Terry Waite17:02

Several brothers, all of whom had either

Terry Waite17:06

been murdered by the previous regime or had to discontinue their education.

Terry Waite17:11

for one reason or another, and he said, Can you understand now why we fight?

Terry Waite17:16

And

Terry Waite17:17

You know, injustice breeds terrorism.

Terry Waite17:20

Where there is injustice, you get

Terry Waite17:22

Acts of terrorism, which in themselves are unjust, of course, it's no excuse, but you can begin to understand.

Presenter17:29

Mm.

Presenter17:30

But going back to your your role of hostage mediator, as it were, of of the Archbishop's envoy before your captivity.

Presenter17:37

Did it also perhaps fulfil another part of your character that you've hinted at, which is the part of you that is very extrovert, that quite likes a little to make a few waves, to cause a sensation? Was there part of you that quite enjoyed the public profile of bringing people home?

Terry Waite17:54

Yes, I'd have to admit that there was a part of me. Um I don't dislike it.

Terry Waite17:59

I like it, I suppose.

Terry Waite18:02

for several reasons. One of which is it does enable one to open a lot of doors for for other people, and that's that's a good thing.

Terry Waite18:12

But I think I'd be totally deceptive if I said there wasn't a certain part of me that just didn't enjoy it for its own sake. I think that's probably true.

Presenter18:20

Mm-hmm.

Presenter18:21

There are some people who've become your critics who've gone further than that, though, aren't there? There are some people who said that in the end you were captured because of your own foolhardiness, that you didn't heed the warnings from the Foreign Office, from Hezbollah.

Presenter18:36

An unlikely alliance there, that you were in danger, but that somehow you thought yourself invulnerable.

Terry Waite18:43

No, I never thought myself invulnerable.

Presenter18:44

But

Terry Waite18:45

Because, um, before I was captured I made a tape.

Terry Waite18:49

Uh which said, if I am captured

Terry Waite18:51

I knew there was a very high chance. No ransom is to be paid.

Terry Waite18:55

No exchange made for me.

Terry Waite18:57

But what really drove me back

Terry Waite18:59

It was partly personal pride.

Terry Waite19:02

and partly a sense of honour, and partly compassion.

Terry Waite19:07

Partly stupidity, I suppose. I mean a mixture of all these things.

Terry Waite19:12

but a determination that when the rug was pulled from under my feet,

Terry Waite19:16

I would not give in. I would not be beaten and I would not see these innocent hostages left alone and their families left bereift. I just wouldn't do it.

Presenter19:26

Next piece of music.

Terry Waite19:28

The next piece of music is um

Terry Waite19:31

Part of the

Terry Waite19:33

Agnosteo, a Lamb of God from Foray's Requim and

Terry Waite19:36

The reason I choose this is.

Terry Waite19:39

In captivity.

Terry Waite19:41

I heard

Terry Waite19:43

in the last Christmas of captivity.

Terry Waite19:46

The Choir of King's College, Cambridge.

Terry Waite19:48

But they

Terry Waite19:50

annual service of lessons and carols, and I'd always listened to that in previous years.

Terry Waite19:56

And

Terry Waite19:57

As I listened to that, again I thought what a beautiful choir

Terry Waite20:01

And how marvellous

Terry Waite20:02

must be to be free to go there.

Terry Waite20:05

and to take part in that service.

Terry Waite20:08

And then, of course, after my release.

Terry Waite20:12

I found myself elected a fellow commoner.

Terry Waite20:16

Of Trinity Hall, which is just down the street from King's College. Total surprise to me.

Terry Waite20:21

and some nights when I've finished writing

Terry Waite20:24

In the evening I'll get up and uh

Terry Waite20:27

Just walk gently there and

Terry Waite20:29

sit quietly in the chapel.

Terry Waite20:31

and hear the choir.

Terry Waite20:33

Singing.

Terry Waite20:35

I choose this piece for many, many reasons.

Speaker 421:19

It's the

Speaker 421:21

Uh

Presenter21:27

Part of the Agnes Day from Foray's Requiem, sung by the choir of King's College, Cambridge, with the English Chamber Orchestra, conducted by Philip Ledger.

Presenter21:35

It was on the twentieth of january, nineteen eighty seven, Terry Waite, that you were driven to a house in West Beirut to meet members of the Islamic Jihad to negotiate the release of hostages. You dismissed your body guards, because that was the arrangement, and you waited. What happened next?

Terry Waite21:51

While I waited

Terry Waite21:53

In this room

Terry Waite21:55

And uh

Terry Waite21:57

Eventually I was alone.

Terry Waite21:59

And uh

Terry Waite22:01

I waited and waited, and then I heard the sound of a lift.

Terry Waite22:04

coming up to the apartment.

Terry Waite22:07

And

Terry Waite22:09

A man appeared.

Terry Waite22:11

whom I knew because I'd had previous contact with him a year earlier.

Terry Waite22:17

He asked me if I was armed, and I told him I wasn't.

Terry Waite22:20

He checked to see if I was.

Terry Waite22:22

And then when he was satisfied,

Terry Waite22:25

He took me.

Terry Waite22:27

downstairs, and we got in a car and drove across Beirut.

Terry Waite22:30

Then I was blindfolded as I expected.

Terry Waite22:33

and then I was kept in various buildings for two or three days.

Terry Waite22:36

And eventually

Terry Waite22:38

Put in

Terry Waite22:39

myself in an underground prison, of which Beirut is

Terry Waite22:44

There are very many.

Terry Waite22:45

Terry Anderson, one of the American hostages, once termed it as the

Terry Waite22:49

Lebanese gulag.

Presenter22:52

So how did you bear it? Where did you go to in your head to retain your sanity?

Terry Waite22:59

I have always

Terry Waite23:01

First of all.

Terry Waite23:02

I tried to make sense of what religious belief I have.

Terry Waite23:06

And

Terry Waite23:07

Try to understand it.

Terry Waite23:09

I think really that it's hard

Terry Waite23:12

Religion is a great mystery, and part of the joy of being

Terry Waite23:15

At least, trying to understand religious belief is to somehow enter into mystery.

Terry Waite23:21

And try and

Terry Waite23:22

gradually learned something of it.

Terry Waite23:26

And

Terry Waite23:27

partly also by

Terry Waite23:30

Having in my past read a great deal of the writings of Carl Jung, the Swiss psychotherapist,

Terry Waite23:37

Who said

Terry Waite23:38

You know, when you find yourself in a situation of extremity, allow your unconscious to come to your aid, allow your dreams to come to your aid, and they will, and they do, that's a fact. So

Terry Waite23:50

combination of a firm belief.

Terry Waite23:54

and if I can put it in very, very simple terms, without being pious about it.

Terry Waite23:59

The firm belief that light is stronger than darkness, and if you hold on to the light

Terry Waite24:05

somehow it will be able to see you through.

Terry Waite24:08

and the firm belief that there are resources within us.

Terry Waite24:12

that enable us to live through the most difficult and terrible circumstances.

Terry Waite24:16

And w somehow it's possible to tap them.

Presenter24:19

Next record.

Terry Waite24:21

Ah, well, yes.

Terry Waite24:24

A lovely pure singer called Carol Kidd. I say pure, she has a lovely pure voice.

Terry Waite24:31

And she's singing a song that's rather romantic, and I think there's a pretty strong romantic streak in me somewhere. A romantic song When I Dream.

Terry Waite24:41

I dreamt in captivity once that I was

Terry Waite24:45

Walking along a beach.

Terry Waite24:48

And I was alone.

Terry Waite24:51

And then I was lost, and I felt tremendous fear in the dream.

Terry Waite24:55

And then

Terry Waite24:56

Across the

Terry Waite24:58

Sand I saw two figures coming toward me, and they took me by the hand.

Terry Waite25:03

and they led me off the beach, and I recognized these two figures as being my children.

Terry Waite25:09

And I couldn't make sense of that dream. That was very early on in captivity, in the first year, and I thought about it for oh goodness.

Terry Waite25:17

Yes.

Terry Waite25:19

And then when I came out and came into Lynham, and there stood

Terry Waite25:23

my three daughters, and behind them my wife and my son.

Terry Waite25:27

and I went across and spoke to them for the first time in five years.

Terry Waite25:32

Of course there were tears.

Terry Waite25:34

And then they said,

Terry Waite25:35

Um

Terry Waite25:36

Dad, take all the help that's going to be given you here.

Terry Waite25:40

And they kept saying this all my family kept saying this to me in the first, uh

Terry Waite25:45

First days in Lynham.

Terry Waite25:47

And then suddenly I remembered.

Terry Waite25:49

The dream

Terry Waite25:50

Your family will, your children, your family will lead you out.

Terry Waite25:54

So I choose Carol Kidd singing When I Dream.

Speaker 426:04

I dream of you.

Speaker 426:14

Someday you will come true.

Presenter26:28

Carol Kidd singing When I Dream

Presenter26:31

The other thing that you've had to withstand since your release, of course, are the suggestions that you were somehow involved in the covert deals of the Americans with the Iranians and swapping arms for hostages. Did you have any idea that that was going on?

Terry Waite26:38

Uh

Speaker 426:38

Yeah.

Terry Waite26:38

Bye.

Speaker 426:39

But Yeah.

Terry Waite26:45

No, absolutely no idea at all. And one of the reasons, of course, I wasn't told about it.

Terry Waite26:51

is that if I had

Terry Waite26:52

Been told

Terry Waite26:54

Those who were practicing that, or whom it's reputed were practicing that, from America.

Terry Waite26:59

Um

Terry Waite27:01

knew that I would have not continued to associate with them.

Presenter27:04

But you knew Colonel Oliver North and who was one of the masterminds behind the scheme. Is it possible that he used you, that you were very useful as a front?

Terry Waite27:11

So

Terry Waite27:13

Quite possible. Yes. I mean, that's a risk you take. And the thing is, in again dealing with hostage release, you have to relate to an enormous number of people. Some people you can say, Well, I could be fairly sure I can trust you.

Terry Waite27:27

Others you wouldn't trust at all, others you're totally unsure about. It's a it's a terribly risky business, you know.

Presenter27:34

But if you were used a as a as a a smokescreen for an illegal arms deal, then the charge against you i is simply one of naivety, is it?

Terry Waite27:43

It's one of not knowing. Some may make the charge of naivety. I wouldn't necessarily say that myself about myself.

Terry Waite27:50

I would say that I was as cautious and as careful as I could be.

Terry Waite27:56

All I can say is and I don't feel any need to defend myself in saying these things all I can say is that when the rug was pulled from under my feet, and when it became a matter of public knowledge and knowledge to me for the first time that an arms deal appeared to have been struck,

Terry Waite28:12

I said, Well, I'm not giving up.

Terry Waite28:14

I'm gonna go on, because I believe in the end.

Terry Waite28:18

Politics to one side, arms dealing to one side, what will count in the end?

Terry Waite28:23

is the justice and integrity that's brought to bear on any situation.

Speaker 428:27

Record number seven.

Terry Waite28:29

Record number seven, right.

Terry Waite28:32

Well, I've always been.

Terry Waite28:36

very much in touch and very fond of the Orthodox Church and occasionally I'll go to the

Terry Waite28:43

Russian Orthodox Church in Princess Gate in Kensington, and join with my friends there. And after my release,

Terry Waite28:51

I uh

Terry Waite28:52

went tried to go incognito, and I stood there and at the end of the service I was just about to go.

Terry Waite28:58

And the old Bishop said

Terry Waite29:01

Just a minute, he said.

Terry Waite29:03

There's some one here this morning whom we've prayed for.

Terry Waite29:07

for a long, long time, one of our friends.

Terry Waite29:10

And this morning we will sing for him.

Terry Waite29:14

and, to my great surprise and embarrassment a little bit, all the congregation gathered round.

Terry Waite29:20

And they sang.

Terry Waite29:22

Then they came and

Terry Waite29:23

Traditional fashion kissed me on both cheeks. And so, obviously, I couldn't go to my desert island without taking a memory of a church and a people I love.

Presenter30:32

Part of the song of Simeon from the Orthodox Divine Liturgy at Zagorsk, sung by the Lauray Choir of the Trinity Saint Serge and the Choir of the Ecclesiastical Academy of Moscow.

Presenter30:43

In fact, Harry, you're not employed by the Church any more, are you?

Terry Waite30:46

No, I retired from Lambeth on the thirty-first of May, which is my birthday, my fifty-third birthday.

Presenter30:54

You you left your job after five years of not doing it.

Terry Waite30:57

That's what I'm waiting for the

Presenter30:57

And now you're a a fellow of Trinity Hall, Cambridge, which according to the papers gives you a a a lonely room with bars at the window.

Terry Waite31:06

Well, I'm a fellow commoder, and that means that um

Terry Waite31:10

The fellows elected me to be there and give me all the rights and privileges of the f of a fellow with uh none of the responsibilities, or at least very few of the responsibilities. I mean, I do have opportunity to

Terry Waite31:22

Preach to the undergraduates and fellows from time to time. But largely, there's this marvellous opportunity in Trinity Hall.

Terry Waite31:31

To sit in my room, as you describe it, with bars at the window, but they're put there, you know, to stop students climbing in at night, not to stop me getting out.

Speaker 431:39

Okay.

Terry Waite31:39

And I do have this opportunity to

Terry Waite31:42

on the one hand to read, to catch up with reading, to write.

Terry Waite31:46

and to really enjoy what I think is one of the nicest things that's happened to me for a long time, the uh stimulating company of my colleagues there, who are a marvellous group of people.

Presenter31:57

Last record.

Terry Waite31:59

The last record will

Terry Waite32:02

This again

Terry Waite32:03

is a a piece of music that's particularly moving to me.

Terry Waite32:07

And it has many, many associations. It's part of Ibergurne's sleep.

Terry Waite32:12

Um a song.

Terry Waite32:15

And I first heard this in Saint Martin in the Fields.

Terry Waite32:20

Just before I was captured.

Terry Waite32:22

I went to preach at a memorial service for

Terry Waite32:27

British hostages, they were teachers, who'd been murdered in Beirut.

Terry Waite32:32

And

Terry Waite32:33

One of the

Terry Waite32:35

Friends of

Terry Waite32:36

Philip Padfield.

Terry Waite32:38

got up and sung the song.

Terry Waite32:41

and I thought it was absolutely incredible.

Terry Waite32:44

A most beautiful piece of music.

Terry Waite32:47

And

Terry Waite32:49

When I came out of captivity there was a concert put on in Blackheath at the Blackheath Concert Hall.

Terry Waite32:55

and just before that concert I received some poems that had been written by Philip.

Terry Waite33:00

Before

Terry Waite33:02

He was captured.

Terry Waite33:04

And after his death, when people went through his papers, they discovered these poems.

Terry Waite33:08

and I read one out at the Blackheath Concert just before the song Sleep was sung.

Terry Waite33:13

And the final verse of this remarkable

Terry Waite33:16

Poem written by Philip Padfield.

Terry Waite33:19

Reads

Terry Waite33:20

So in the going down of this sun I grieve.

Terry Waite33:24

and in this evening remember, and with remembering resolve, against all the odds, to love.

Terry Waite33:30

To save this sunset for the ones to come

Terry Waite33:34

and to sanctify this dying

Terry Waite33:36

to the ones now gone.

Terry Waite33:39

And that links so beautifully.

Terry Waite33:41

with gun is

Terry Waite33:42

Uh song.

Terry Waite33:44

who speaks about sleep

Terry Waite33:47

to be locked in the delights of sleep.

Terry Waite33:49

and all those who've known

Terry Waite33:52

What an escape and what a relief!

Terry Waite33:55

Sleep convey

Terry Waite33:57

will appreciate both Philip's poem.

Terry Waite33:59

And this song by Ivor Gernig.

Speaker 434:05

Yeah.

Speaker 434:07

And with thy sweet E.

Speaker 434:15

Yeah.

Speaker 434:27

Let some pleasing dream Beguile all my friends see

Speaker 434:41

Yeah.

Speaker 434:57

All my

Presenter35:03

Part of Ivor Gurney's Sleep, with words by John Fletcher, sung by Benjamin Luxon with David Willison playing the piano.

Presenter35:11

Well now, which one of those eight records uh would have brought you greatest comfort in your captivity, Terry?

Terry Waite35:17

Whether its greatest comfort or not, I'm not sure, but

Terry Waite35:21

I think ultimately his greatest comfort would have been the last one.

Terry Waite35:25

Sleep.

Presenter35:27

Uh did you have a Bible in captivity?

Terry Waite35:29

I did.

Terry Waite35:32

and read it through several times.

Presenter35:34

And did you have a complete works of Shakespeare?

Terry Waite35:36

Fortunately not. No. I asked for it and uh

Terry Waite35:40

One day, to my surprise, the gown said, Oh,

Terry Waite35:43

I've got you Shakespeare. So I thought, Oh, wonderful. At last I'll be able to read the whole of Shakespeare uninterruptedly. And it proved to be, unfortunately, Lamb's Tales from Shakespeare. So

Presenter35:54

Yeah.

Terry Waite35:54

That really wasn't, dude.

Presenter35:56

And did you did you have a book or what would be your chosen book alongside?

Terry Waite35:59

Oh, I can tell you, I have thought about this question that so many times. I want something that would stretch me and that would really take some reading.

Terry Waite36:10

And I doubt if you'll let me get away with it, but I'd try to get away with the complete Cambridge Histories.

Presenter36:17

I find it quite impossible to say no to you, although you're not supposed to have any collected works of do you?

Presenter36:23

Could you sort of squeeze it all into one volume or something?

Terry Waite36:26

They have very big volumes.

Presenter36:28

And a luxury

Terry Waite36:29

I I thought about this and I thought it'd be rather pedantic to say a piano and that's what I'd like, but I think probably more

Terry Waite36:36

better luxury really would be um

Terry Waite36:38

One of those chess computers that you can play yourself at chess. Uh, that would probably be something that I'd really ultimately go for.

Presenter36:47

Terry Waite, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your Desert Island Discs.

Terry Waite36:51

Thank you, sir.

Speaker 336:59

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.