Tuning in…
Tuning in…
Desert Island Discs
Presented by Sue Lawley
Actor, star of 'Citizen Smith', BAFTA winner for 'GBH', and Henry II in 'Announce Beckett'.
Eight records
I remember listening to it on with Uncle Mac when I was a kid. Everyone did. And it was a it was a story, it had a through line, and it was a a boy in search of his echo, he loses his echo and goes to find it.
Kenneth Horne, Hugh Paddick, Kenneth Williams
I remember those Sunday dinners. Call it lunch now, don't we, Sue? Sunday dinner as a lad, with Yorkshire pudding and roast beef, listening to this great show. And laughing at the pauses,'cause you were imagining people in silence sitting around the table eating and listening to this show and really getting involved in it brings back great memories.
The Beatles represent everything to me of of growing up and of say and and they gave me such confidence. And I I remember buying all their albums the moment they came out, literally queuing up at the record shop. Because they were they were telling a story. I I was and I identified with them so much. They gave me the confidence, and they'll never know, and they gave thousands of people the confidence, and we went on the whole journey with them.
I first heard this record when I was in me and my girl on Broadway. I was so homesick. Ridiculously homesick. And I guess that when I heard this song, it sort of captured everything that was. Nostalgic about being in the north of England.
Robert Lindsay and Marianne Plunkett
It's me singing. Shouldn't do this really. Ego gone mad here. And Marianne Plunkett, uh who was my leading lady in New York. And I've chosen it because it Richard Armitage wanted this song and it reminds me of him.
Nat King Cole's the king, isn't he? And I I had a real problem with this'cause in in so much that There's a whole list of people that from Sinatra and Crosby and Ella Fitzgerald. But in the end, Nat King Cole's voice has to win. You know, just listening to that voice makes you feel good, makes you feel comfortable and secure.
Jussi Björling and Robert Merrill
I have never been so blown away in my life. I have never seen anything so beautiful. I wept from start to finish. I was a gibbering wreck when I left that theatre. Yes, and there were a lot of rich people there as well. And the particular piece I've chosen Because Elijah had to tell me the story and a running commentary as well, which is brilliant because the director was there. You know, it's a th this is the bit when the the two men sing about love. And I thought, oh, really? Two men talking'cause men don't do that.
Also sprach ZarathustraFavourite
I remember going on summer holidays, you know, or they were always raining, wandering around, promenades somewhere. And I found Cinner Armour. Remember Cinerama when it used to go round in tents? And it was just the most amazing experience I went to see Two Thousand and One Space Odyssey, like many other. Kids, I I was sixteen. And I si I've since seen the film twenty times. I think it it was the beginning of a new generation. And it it always leaves me with a a a a cold tingling sensation every time I hear it.
The keepsakes
In conversation
Presenter asks
So what did your parents think when you said you wanted to be an actor?
Really confused. I think they tried to put on a brave face, but even they were really confused. No, it wasn't a proper job. And frightening, they were being told horror stories and so on, but I'd really made up my mind and got the bug. Although I fooled everyone that I was going to be a teacher of drama. That's why I went to Clarendon College, take A levels and go down to one of the training schools like Rose Bruford or Guildhall or something. And then once I'd set up that deceit, that web of deceit, I went round everyone's back and borrowed a few quid from some friends at Clarendon and went to [RADA] and got in first time.
Presenter asks
Tell me about being auditioned for RADA and how old were you when you went?
Yeah, eighteen to twenty, that's right. A James Baldwin play blues for Mr. Charlie. Plain black, would you believe? And launch from [Two Gentlemen of Verona]. Hmm. I was more more shocked at being in London really, it's the first time in London, you know, with a the suitcase and the And standing outside [RADA] for hours staring at it, j and knowing I was going to get in. That was the crazy thing. And the lines and queues of people. How did you know you just knew it was fate somehow? I just I don't know. I just had this weird notion I was going to get in. The letter came? I mean, literally within two days. Yeah, I'll let a little bit of a message.
The recording
Timestamps play the recording from that turn
Speaker 2
Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.
Speaker 2
The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen ninety two, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.
Presenter
My Castaway this week is an actor. Born in Derbyshire forty-two years ago, he's recognised today as one of Britain's most versatile performers. He learned his craft at Rada and in Rep, coming to prominence as the star of a BBC sitcom Citizen Smith in the seventies. The mid eighties found him an overnight success on Broadway and Me and My Girl, and he's recently won the Best Actor Award at BAFTA for his portrayal of a left-wing counsellor in the television play GBH. What's more, he's just taken the West End by storm in the role of Henry the Second in Announce Beckett. It's an impressive variety, appropriate, perhaps, for the man who, as a boy, was first attracted to acting by the schoolteacher who invented for his pupils the Grand Order of Thespians. He is Robert Lindsay.
Presenter
So is that how it all started with this this teacher at school, Bob? Hmm, I guess it was. J John Lally. I I was at this very tough secondary modern school.
Presenter
I should have passed my eleven plus. I I never know why. Maybe I wasn't paying attention. I don't know.
Presenter
Yes. It lives with you.
Presenter
So so you went to a rough secondary mod, did you?
Robert Lindsay
Yeah.
Presenter
It was rough. Oh, it was rough. Uh, Gladstone Boys, and right in the middle of town. And uh, if you didn't wear a leather jacket, you were not accepted, you know, and if you didn't smoke cigarettes, and it was
Presenter
I was frightened. I remember the day walking into the gates. I had never been so frightened in my life.
Presenter
Because I I'd heard all these terrible stories.
Presenter
But in fact, it turned out for me a very lucky experience because all the teachers there were really cared.
Presenter
genuinely cared and they they they dealt with the boys as boys and and
Presenter
you felt if actually the only way of succeeding for that school was to go into the sciences, engineering or industry, or whatever. But John Lally, this art master, who eventually became the headmaster,
Presenter
Introduced to the school this.
Presenter
This group called the Grand Order of Thespians, and the kids took it on. They really did. Didn't they think it was sissy? Yeah.
Robert Lindsay
Isn't that
Presenter
Of course they did for a while.
Presenter
But he was very clever because he he um he got everyone involved. He got the maths department doing the accounts, he got the metalwork and the woodwork building the sets.
Presenter
He involved everyone, so suddenly everyone was putting on a play. But you were you took to it immediately, did you? I mean, you were a natural on the stage from the start. Doctor Water. I I just loved it, and I loved showing off.
Robert Lindsay
On the stage from the start.
Presenter
And do you think that that Mr. Lally was aware that he'd come across a a rather remarkable talent? No, I think even he got frightened when I started saying I really want to be an actor.
Robert Lindsay
Yeah.
Presenter
Because I don't think even he had envisaged that there was a career for anyone wanting to be an actor. Let's have your first record. What is it? Well, it's Sparky's Magic Echo.
Presenter
And contrary to all researchers, it's not sparky's magic piano.
Presenter
And I'm glad you found it, because I I
Presenter
It was one of the first things I remembered because it was a real story. I remember listening to it on with Uncle Mac when I was a kid.
Presenter
Everyone did.
Presenter
And it was a it was a story, it had a through line, and it was a a boy in search of his echo, he loses his echo and goes to find it.
Speaker 4
How long, how long, how long?
Presenter
One day, as usual, Sparky stood in front of his house where he could see the mountain in the distance, and he began to sing his song.
Speaker 4
Hello.
Speaker 4
My voice didn't come back to me.
Speaker 4
I'll try it again.
Speaker 4
Hello?
Speaker 4
Hello?
Speaker 4
Oh, my goodness.
Presenter
Spark is Magic Echo. So you you were an uncome back child, you're a pink toothbrush and a blue toothbrush and Champion the Wonder Horse. Yeah. Ch Champion the Wonder Horse, that's the one I don't remember. Oh, yes I do. That was a T V show.
Robert Lindsay
Yeah, champion won the
Presenter
No, I was with Uncle Mac uh uh every Saturday morning. Home was a a a council estate in in Ilkeston in Derbyshire.
Robert Lindsay
Councillor Sh.
Presenter
And your dad was a carpenter? Dad was a carpenter.
Robert Lindsay
That was a copy.
Presenter
Yeah, I I never w did work out the difference. Well, join us at Posha.
Robert Lindsay
Uh
Speaker 4
What should I
Speaker 4
No, I need copyright.
Presenter
Well that's more religious.
Speaker 4
Well that's more religious.
Presenter
And your mum, did she go out to work?
Presenter
Yeah, mum mum's had a a variety of jobs, working at Raleigh and Players, uh the factory in Nottingham. Al she was always working in factories, on the factory floor, and then later like she's always worked as a cleaner.
Presenter
Tough times, my family. I never realized as a kid. It was such a
Presenter
a good upbringing and I was an only child till I was eleven.
Robert Lindsay
Now
Presenter
And I it was very protected, very closeted, very, very lonely. I mean, I didn't have many kid friends, so I I I mean, I imagined a lot and played a lot, and I was very protected, I remember, and I always I remember long summers and
Presenter
And plenty of food and Christmas presents. And I was we were I was really very lucky. It's interesting though that you made your name as a player of kind of cockney characters, that you never really exploited the the Derbyshire accent. I I've often thought why that happened. I when I came to London I suppose I really tried to cling on to my northern roots and my Yilkeston accent, but I knew I wasn't getting anywhere. I had to sort of open out as it were. Eventually gave in. And I think what happened was as a self-defence mechanism.
Presenter
I developed another working-class accent, which was cockney because I was living in London and started talking like the cab drivers, and you know, just a sort of.
Speaker 2
Bring it.
Presenter
be accepted. But it's strange you've never been offered a a kind of D H Lawrence here. You'd make a a wonderful Paul Morrell in Suns and would I love to do a D H Lawrence play? And I've always think they've been very abused. I've never seen yet a D H Lawrence play or production or film or whatever that I've thought was right.
Robert Lindsay
Oh would I love
Presenter
So what did your parents think when you said you wanted to be an actor?
Presenter
I
Presenter
Really confused. I think they tried to put on a brave face, but even they were really confused.
Speaker 2
It wasn't a proper job.
Presenter
No, it wasn't a proper job. And frightening, they were being told horror stories and so on, but I'd really made up my mind and got the bug. Although I fooled everyone that I was going to be a teacher of drama. That's why I went to Clarendon College, take A levels and go down to one of the training schools like Rose Bruford or Guildhall or something. And then once I'd set up that deceit, that web of deceit, I went round everyone's back and
Presenter
Borrowed a few quid from some friends at Clarendon and went to Radhar and got in first time.
Presenter
Just pause there for your second record.
Presenter
Well, this is uh this is another reminder of childhood, really. It's the beginning of my my
Presenter
I don't know, comic side. All those radio shows I could have chosen Goons, Hancock, whatever, I I really plump for Round the Horn, because I remember those Sunday dinners.
Presenter
Call it lunch now, don't we, Sue? Sunday dinner as a lad, with Yorkshire pudding and roast beef, listening to this great show.
Presenter
And laughing at the pauses,'cause you were imagining people in silence sitting around the table eating and listening to this show and really getting involved in it brings back great memories.
Presenter
Recently I was asked to organise a cabaret for the Director General of the BBC. They said they wanted something different, so I popped down to a little agency in the Charing Cross Road that I'd heard of. It was called Bona Performers.
Presenter
Hello, anybody there?
Robert Lindsay
Hello, I'm Julian. This is my friend Sandy.
Presenter
Where you're bound to perform. Bona perform
Robert Lindsay
Mona Performers
Presenter
Me out.
Robert Lindsay
Oh, it's Mr. Own. Oh, how nice to bardy a dolly old Eeke again.
Presenter
Oh, well, what brings you, Trolling, in here? Well, I've been asked to organise a cabaret for the BBC on the 15th, and I was wondering if you could fix me up. Oh?
Speaker 4
Uh
Robert Lindsay
Oh yes, Ducky. Yes, oh B B C is it? Oh well you'll want something a bit risque for that mob. How about Queenie? I think she is at Liberty, isn't she? Queenie.
Presenter
Oh.
Presenter
Well what uh what does Queenie do? Oh she does strip teas with a different see she's normally she's the bearded lady at Blackpool. She's got a long beard right down to her ankles. Right down.
Robert Lindsay
Uh
Robert Lindsay
With a different
Speaker 4
A
Robert Lindsay
Scott.
Presenter
Yes, and instead of stripping she just comes on and shaves.
Presenter
Kenneth Horne and Hugh Paddock and Kenneth Williams as Julian and Sandy from Round the Horn and memories of uh it's that smell of roast beef that goes by every time you hear Kenneth Horne's voice. Yeah, well Kenneth Horne is representative of everything that's B B C, isn't he? Yeah, yeah. And that madness going around him and him still trying to retain the B B C um voice.
Robert Lindsay
Bye, every time you hear the phone's voice.
Robert Lindsay
Yeah.
Presenter
Yes. Tell me about being auditioned for Rada and how old were you when you went? I'd be 18. Yeah, 18 to 20, that's right. What did you perform?
Robert Lindsay
Yeah, eighteen to twenty, that's right.
Presenter
A James Baldwin play blues for Mr. Charlie. Plain black, would you believe?
Presenter
And launch from Tugents of Verona.
Speaker 4
Hmm.
Presenter
I was more more shocked at being in London really, it's the first time in London, you know, with a the suitcase and the
Presenter
And standing outside radar for hours staring at it, j and knowing I was going to get in. That was the crazy thing. And the lines and queues of people. How did you know you just knew it was fate somehow? I just
Robert Lindsay
But how did you
Presenter
I don't know. I just had this weird notion I was going to get in. Did they snap you up immediately? The letter came? I mean, literally within two days.
Robert Lindsay
Yeah.
Robert Lindsay
Yeah, I'll let a little bit of a message.
Presenter
So your mum came round to the idea, didn't she? Yeah. Oh, you know that story as well, do you?
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Presenter
It is absolutely true. I mean
Presenter
Anything with Royal on it, you know, in
Presenter
Ilkiston has got to be on, you know,'cause they're great royal lovers up there and uh that was it for everyone. I mean I was a local hero right from that point.
Presenter
Go on, tell me about your mum. All right. She literally ran down the street saying he's got into the Royal Academy, you know, I mean and the Queen lives there. That was the famous line.
Robert Lindsay
Gaura
Robert Lindsay
But she
Presenter
Well she thought she actually lived there or she was there.
Robert Lindsay
Yeah.
Presenter
That's why it had to be it was royal, had to be. But it turned out to be a bit of a mixed blessing, didn't it?'Cause you weren't entirely at ease there. Well, it's sparky again, I guess, you know, going out and looking in search of the echo and then finding it's not there and then growing up and s finding out reality. I mean I
Presenter
I suppose it was working class chips first developed at Rada. But why? I mean, what brought it on?
Robert Lindsay
You know
Presenter
Well, suddenly finding out you had to live on a grand of a hundred and thirty pounds a tonne.
Presenter
And fend for yourself, cook for yourself and and well grow up. It's like going to university, same thing. But it must also have been to do with the sort of people you were mixing with, yeah.
Robert Lindsay
But he
Presenter
Rich.
Presenter
wealthy people. I mean, rather at that point I think was a parts of finishing school as well. Had that element to it and there were a lot of debutantes there and people I mean, actually people arriving in Rolls Royces. I I could it was another world.
Presenter
Did it make a difference to you, though, at Brada, that you were not as privileged as many of the people there you mixed with? Did did it make you more determined to succeed in any way?
Presenter
Yes, it did. But you see that this business is is a great leveller.
Presenter
The one thing about this business is
Presenter
It's not class structured.
Presenter
It really isn't. I've always revelled in that. I mean, I've always felt comfortable with other actors.
Presenter
Whatever background they come from, because we taught one language. And
Presenter
I suddenly felt very comfortable when once I'd once I'd realized that.
Presenter
Record number three.
Presenter
Oh, the Beatles. If I had my choice I'd play every single Beatles, but I've got to choose one, so I'm going to choose I'm a loser.
Presenter
That's a terrible title, really. I've just realized how poignant and how wrong.
Robert Lindsay
How wrong?
Presenter
Big Beatles represent everything to me of of growing up and of say and and they gave me such confidence. And I I remember buying all their albums the moment they came out, literally queuing up at the record shop.
Presenter
Because they were they were telling a story.
Presenter
I I was and I identified with them so much.
Presenter
They gave me the confidence, and they'll never know, and they gave thousands of people the confidence, and we went on the whole journey with them.
Presenter
And we all ended up in the same situation in in in various ways, you know, with Sergeant Pepper and splitting up and wherever they went. It was a trip through the sixties and the seventies, and I thanked them.
Speaker 4
I'm a loser.
Speaker 2
Uh
Speaker 4
And I'm not
Speaker 2
What I appear to be Of all the love I have won or have lost There is one love I should never have crossed
Speaker 2
She was a girl in a million
Speaker 2
Uh
Presenter
Uh
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Presenter
I should have known she would win in the end. I'm a lady.
Presenter
The Beatles and I'm a loser. It was um through television, though, Robert Lindsay, wasn't it, that you first made your name with Citizen Smith. You played Wolfie Smith, the the leader of the Tooting Popular Front, what, late seventies? How else do you make your name put other than T V? I mean, it you know, you can go on in theatre for ad infan item and never be
Presenter
Known.
Presenter
T V's the one thing that uh brings you to recognition, I guess, in this country, certainly. So you made three series of that, and you ended up.
Presenter
Hating it, hating him? Well, I guess, yes, I did. But I, you know, I look back now with with great affection. Why did you hate him at the time?
Robert Lindsay
Why did you
Presenter
I was so
Presenter
Famous, I guess. I c I couldn't go anywhere. I mean, literally, I was mobbed. I mean, I go shopping and the place would stop. I remember w once in Manchester, some builders screaming power to the people from this building. And one of them fell off. He was so excited. Try wait, wait, he kept shouting, Wait, wait, I wanna I wanna, you know, autograph or whatever he wanted. And in his anxiety, he fell off the roof and threw an awning.
Presenter
And to the street below. And he got up and ran across the street. He survived the fall, threw the aunt, and was so excited. He still came for you.
Speaker 2
So it's a little bit more than
Presenter
That kind of hysteria. But why didn't you like that? A lot of people would.
Robert Lindsay
But why didn't you
Presenter
And it was just the fear of not being able to be myself and I because it was very much a character that I played and then
Presenter
Although I didn't, you see, this is a m mistake I made, I started playing Wolfie off.
Presenter
And started playing the image, you know, with the Levi's and the because it was part me, part John Sullivan, part what I wanted it me to be.
Presenter
There was a bit of fantasy there because he was the the rebel. That's when the dang where the danger lies. I think it is once the typed. That's right. And I saw the danger. And fortunately I was surrounded by people who kept saw the danger as well and said, Look, you must get out.
Robert Lindsay
I think it is once the year.
Presenter
But you went on and did other television series, you didn't have to do it. Well th although I didn't because then I got involved with the Royal Exchange in Manchester. Yeah.
Speaker 4
No.
Presenter
Michael Elliott and Bream Murray and Casparedo, who ran it, saw this other side to me.
Robert Lindsay
Uh
Presenter
Yeah, and fortunately, what I did, I combined work at the Royal Exchange and then went down and earned a few Bob doing. It's the usual story, is it the television function? That's right, functionality to do it in theatre.
Robert Lindsay
It's the
Robert Lindsay
That's right, funny to do.
Presenter
But meanwhile you were doing what was for you, I think, quite a memorable hamlet.
Presenter
At the time of the Royal Exchange, my work at the Royal Exchange culminated in in uh in Hamlet. I'd already done a a production with uh uh Olivier on screen of King Lear for Granada.
Presenter
And then during that time I was talking about doing Hamlet and I little realized that we'd end up doing it in a tent.
Presenter
which was a marquee, was seated nine hundred people, and we took it to sports halls all over the north of England, and ended culminated at the roof of the Barbican in London.
Presenter
And I say on the roof. It was on the roof of the barbican, open to the elements. Except the audience were fine. The actors had to rave the elements. Uh w we complained to equity about the cold on the roof. Uh the management didn't really see our point of view. And they supplied us with these baco foil sheets that athletes use, you know, to wrap round you to keep you insulate you. And uh I decided to go off and have a pee one night and went up the eighteenth floor and got lost in my baco foil with my oh, I always had my skull with me and my dagger and my Bible.
Presenter
I met two cleaners.
Presenter
And I asked them where the roof was, I was completely lost, and they thought it was completely insane, reported me. The long and the short of it was I was literally arrested as I found the tent again.
Presenter
By this god, security guard. Hamlet never appeared again? No, Hamlet appeared, yes. He threatened the security guard with a dagger. He said, Who do you think I am?
Robert Lindsay
Go ahead, Hamlet.
Presenter
Let's have your next record. Where are we?
Presenter
Probably this is leaving home in a way. But I I first heard this record when I was in um
Presenter
In me and my girl on Broadway. I was so homesick.
Presenter
Ridiculously homesick. And I guess that when I heard this song, it sort of captured everything that was.
Presenter
Nostalgic about being in the north of England.
Speaker 2
A Salvation Army bad play
Speaker 2
Children drunk lemonade
Speaker 2
And the morning lasted all day
Robert Lindsay
Through an open window key.
Speaker 4
Let's enough.
Robert Lindsay
Not trying to young
Presenter
Pushing the time
Presenter
The Dream Academy and life in a northern town and memories of home sickness in the States. It was the musical Me and My Girl, as you said, that that took you there. How did you come to do that? I mean it was a a strange and obviously in the end an original idea, because it was a an obscure thirties musical that that was.
Robert Lindsay
We see
Robert Lindsay
Well that was a
Presenter
and a man called Richard Armitage was sent to see me, who who was the head of Knoll Gay, who I know you know very well.
Presenter
who I think became eventually became my mentor. I mean, he was such a powerful influence on that part of my life. And when I met him I loathed him. I thought he was everything that an agent shouldn't be, you know, cigar smoking on ten phone calls at the same time, not concentrating on
Presenter
And he became like a father figure. I miss him greatly. He's he's since died whi when the show opened on Broadway. But it was his father, of course. Noel Gay. Noel Gay who wrote the whole thing. Yeah, absolutely.
Robert Lindsay
Was his father?
Robert Lindsay
No gay who wrote the whole thing or
Presenter
It was a r I mean, it was a great hit here and then they a year later you took it to Broadway. It was an over it was a fairy tale success, really, wasn't it? It really was, yeah. Did you expect it to be a hit in the States? I mean it's ordinary little English musical?
Robert Lindsay
That nature.
Robert Lindsay
Yeah.
Robert Lindsay
It really
Robert Lindsay
Don't you
Robert Lindsay
No, of course not.
Presenter
It came from Left Field, as as they say in the States.
Robert Lindsay
See
Presenter
You know, I mean there you know, there was the huge shows, Le Miserables and Phantom of the Opera, that were h you know, big hype shows and great budgets.
Presenter
And Richard put this on for two hundred and fifty thousand quid at Leicester.
Presenter
But what was it like? I mean, it's it's not something you kind of expected to happen to be the the toast of Broadway. What what's it like, that experience, having all these great and the good coming back, as you say? You can't really explain to anyone. I mean, it it you start literally one day anonymous and the next huge star. It just that's how it happens. I mean, you go to ball games and your name's put up in lights and you g the Times Squares puts your reviews up and
Robert Lindsay
You can't
Presenter
You go to restaurants and people stand up and applaud and y you don't pay for anything and everything's just done for you. But then you get on this rather frightening treadmill where everyone's com controlling your life for you.
Presenter
You know, and not because you're an Englishman and just refuses to say no, you say yes to everything. You're doing
Presenter
Every chat show, every newspaper, and there's millions of them. The States is a huge country.
Speaker 4
Millions
Presenter
Let's have your next record, the the Me and My Girl one. Which one is it?
Presenter
It's hold my hand.
Presenter
And it's me singing.
Presenter
Shouldn't do this really. Ego gone mad here. And Marianne Plunkett, uh who was my leading lady in New York. And I've chosen it because it Richard Armitage wanted this song and it reminds me of him.
Speaker 2
You require a lot of looking after.
Speaker 2
That's one job in which I'd take a pride.
Robert Lindsay
I
Speaker 2
I
Robert Lindsay
You can always make me smile, Make my journey seem worthwhile. Why not keep me always at your side to guide you?
Speaker 2
I d
Presenter
Oh my god.
Presenter
My Castaway Robert Lindsay and Marianne Plunkett with Hold My Hand from Me and My Girl. So back home you discovered that your friend Alan Bleasdale had written this hugely long script for tele for television called GBH with you in mind as the central character. Yes, Alan wasn't my friend. Uh i I I knew who he was, he knew who I was. I I the only time I knew that w we were destined to work together was a a phone call I had with Julie Walters about
Presenter
Maybe two years before I went to Broadway.
Presenter
one of these rather drunken conversations you have very late at night and she said Alan Bleasdale's a great fan of yours and wants to meet you one day that's the only contact I'd ever had with the man. But he'd spotted you, that's what he does.
Robert Lindsay
Oh actually.
Presenter
But he'd written this part for you.
Presenter
Of Michael Murray, which, you know, is is something of a monster. I mean, it's quite a dark character, that. Were you were you flattered, or were you worried that he'd written this bit for you? No, very flattered. Because I knew there was this very dark side to me anyway. I had explored it.
Presenter
Out of the public limelight, I guess, at places like the Royal Exchange.
Presenter
Various things I've done, and Alan,'cause he's a watcher.
Presenter
you know, a great observer, new, and uh I I'm delighted. And was this a a dark side to your acting ability, or are you saying there's a dark side to you too? Oh, inevitably there's a dark side to me. I mean, I I'm I think my whole family have a have a dark side, you know, they
Presenter
I think where you come from and where you and how you're brought up doesn't have an effect. Although it's very secure and very lovely, you still there's something about that upbringing that makes you.
Presenter
Tough.
Presenter
And also angry sometimes about certain situations. Yes, there is a dark side.
Presenter
And but of course what happens to Michael Murray is that the character gradually disintegrates and he develops this I don't know quite how you do it tick on the radio but he throws it. Did people do this too? You rather like they shouted power to the people I believe. It's a similar gesture in a way. Slightly less phonetic, but I I yes I people do it all the time. In fact there was a wonderful story. I was shopping down a high street a couple of w weeks ago and saw two blokes describing this character. They didn't know I was behind them.
Robert Lindsay
Chick on the radio, but he threw it.
Robert Lindsay
Yes, a s
Presenter
You know, both hands shooting up in the air, describing it, what this fella did on GBH. But it also at the same time bordered on the comic. Yes, well, it was.
Robert Lindsay
But
Robert Lindsay
Well it was.
Presenter
I think that's the joy of it, of playing it, because I knew it was this savage.
Presenter
ambitious, you know, angry man with this bitterness, but with with this great madness that that that led into comedy. And there were Alan just let me go. He just let there were whole scenes where I could do comic scenes. And that that, of course, is me. I think essentially I'd love to be a comedian.
Presenter
I'd like to be funny. I l I love being funny with other people's lines.
Presenter
Record number six.
Presenter
Well, I mean Nat King Cole's the king, isn't he?
Presenter
And I I had a real problem with this'cause in in so much that
Presenter
There's a whole list of people that from Sinatra and Crosby and Ella Fitzgerald.
Presenter
But in the end, Nat King Cole's voice has to win. You know, just listening to that voice makes you feel good, makes you feel comfortable and secure.
Presenter
Let their beloved
Robert Lindsay
The same as a trees
Speaker 4
Someone to bless me
Speaker 4
Whenever I sneeze
Speaker 4
Let there be cuckoos.
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Presenter
A lock and a dove. But first of all, please let there be love. Nutkin Cole and let there be love. You're said, thinking of your portrayal of Henry in Beckett, you're said to have.
Presenter
No nerves on the stage to be um to be a bit dangerous. I mean, how much do you like to test yourself on the live stage?
Presenter
I think that's what keeps me going in the business. I I never had that experience anywhere else.
Presenter
I I'm not I re I am fearless on stage and I have no I'm not I don't even pretend to be um
Presenter
um humble about it. I I
Presenter
It doesn't f I'm not worried at all. I remember Derek Jacobi saying to me, Do you never get f nervous?
Presenter
And I I get that tingle, but I I don't get frightened. So what is it you're on the line about? You're you're testing yourself against the past. Yes. And and and the audience's reaction to it and how far I can go.
Robert Lindsay
Yeah.
Robert Lindsay
It
Presenter
There's a lot that goes on before you do that. It's not exactly winging a prayer, is it? You do a lot of homework. Yes, I mean, preparation wise. A a lot of Beckett was wasted, I have to say. I did an awful lot of research on Henry to find out that really Hennui was writing about the um
Robert Lindsay
Yes.
Presenter
the occupation of France and was using the story.
Presenter
Purely for that, as an al allegory. But in the meantime, you'd swallow every history book you could do. Yeah, absolutely. It was a complete waste of time, because in fact, the character of On We bears no resemblance to the real king, who in fact was a very nice fella and a very good leader and a good king. And I think the director, Elijah Mashinsky, accused you of bringing too much baggage. Yes, that's right, he did. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yes, I think you can do. You can bring in too much baggage. That's a very good note, I think.
Robert Lindsay
But it let me
Robert Lindsay
Yeah, absolutely.
Robert Lindsay
Yes, that's right, you did.
Presenter
But it that's obviously what you're like. You carry a lot of baggage. Thank you.
Presenter
It it's obviously the way you d I mean, you are actually very serious and very diligent, aren't you? Beh behind your, may I say?
Presenter
Charming little maker front. There's quite a lot of hard work that goes on, isn't there?
Robert Lindsay
We can make it.
Robert Lindsay
Let's
Presenter
Well, I mean, I think it's a it's a career, you know, that I and I take very seriously. And people go, Oh, God, here he goes.
Presenter
No, but I'm saying more. I mean, you're a warrior, aren't you? Yeah.
Presenter
You're a very ordered, neat and tidy.
Robert Lindsay
Okay.
Presenter
Oh dear. I have done research. Yes, I it's okay. Yes, I am. But I don't think Di would agree w with you about it at home.
Robert Lindsay
Delete.
Presenter
Complete mess. Hence the fact that it took me so long to prepare this thing. I I imagine going off to a desert island while I try and pack.
Presenter
I'd never g I'd never go.
Presenter
I'm useless. I mean, I I But when you got there, your your island would be quite a little picture, wouldn't it, by the time you'd finished? Oh, yes.
Robert Lindsay
Oh yeah.
Presenter
Organized. Yes, very organized. I mean, I'd be busy trying to get off it. I am one of these few uh because of my profession and my
Speaker 2
Yes, it's very
Presenter
newfound wealth, I guess, have managed to go to desert islands.
Presenter
And it's not a
Presenter
It's not what it's cracked up to be, I can tell you. I remember going once one in the Caribbean, actually an atoll with one l little tree on it.
Presenter
And I'm staying there for an hour and a half and wanting to get off that place so badly. Were you by yourself?
Presenter
Are you are you any good by yourself? Are you completely hopeless? No, I don't see the point of being on your own very much. I think thinking about yourself for too long does.
Presenter
It's very it's very dangerous. And I think that's part of the s symptom of today. I think we all think too much about ourselves. And one of the worrying things about doing programmes like this is actually talking about yourself for too long. I mean, the whole joy of being in this business and being an actor and doing your job, doing any media job, is communication, knowing about people, understanding people, what makes them tick. And how can you do that on your own on a desert desert island? Got out of that very well, didn't we?
Presenter
Record number seven.
Presenter
Oh, well that this is this is me bit a classical here. I'd I'd whole chosen a whole lot of classical songs, but I thought some thought that might be a bit pretentious. I I chose this'cause at Labo M it's in the first opera I ever went to see with Elijah Mashinsky, the man who told me to drop all the baggage. And in fact, he took me because I had a real chip about opera.
Presenter
And he directed a lot of opera, and I was working with him on a production of Cymbeline for the BBC, one of the BBC Shakespeare cycle.
Presenter
He said, I'm going to take you to see an opera.
Presenter
And you're I can change I bet I can change your mind and I said no way I said just rich people fur coats, jewelry dripping everywhere. I can't bear it. It's the whole it's dreadful.
Presenter
whole things just for just for very very rich and and pampered people.
Presenter
I have never been so blown away in my life. I have never seen anything so beautiful. I wept from start to finish. I was a gibbering wreck when I left that theatre. Yes, and there were a lot of rich people there as well.
Presenter
And the particular piece I've chosen
Presenter
Because Elijah had to tell me the story and a running commentary as well, which is brilliant because the director was there.
Presenter
You know, it's a th this is the bit when the the two men sing about love.
Presenter
And I thought, oh, really? Two men talking'cause men don't do that. Men d I've always amazed how women talk to each other. I was once party to a conversation of women in a toilet.
Presenter
And I've never heard conversation like that in my life. And I thought men never talk to each other like that, ever.
Presenter
And uh I so this this piece is quite poignant.
Speaker 2
Uh
Presenter
Our side by land.
Presenter
Jussi Björling and Robert Merrill singing part of the Aria O Mimi Tu Piu Nontoni from the final act of Puccini's Laboem with the RCA Victor Orchestra conducted by Sir Thomas Beacham. So glad you had to say that. Does it become more difficult as you become more successful in that whatever you do now, it will be high profile, it will be talked about and it will be criticised if it's not very good. So it's got to be right. But I think if your heart's in the right place, if you really do want to do something, and that's then you can only be right. It may be wrong for the public, but if it's right for you, then that's all that matters. It really is.
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Presenter
Uh that's my philosophy now.
Presenter
And I'm so the money doesn't matter as much as it did, obviously. No, but but you have to s maintain the same rules, you have to survive, so you've got to combine the two still.
Robert Lindsay
So so
Robert Lindsay
Yeah.
Presenter
Michael Morrays don't come around every every week.
Presenter
But there are lots of classical roles I have to play. I mean there's Serrana de Bergerit which I'm toying with at the moment, and Elijah Mashitsky wants to direct that.
Presenter
And we've worked together well before, so we may do that end of this year or the beginning of next. But it's that part of you um the performer in you in in that song and dance sense that one feels is uh there's still more of that to come, isn't there? There was a wonderful review uh I think Michael Ratcliffe in The Observer wrote that your performance in Mear My Girl was it was a gorgeous, unselfish, endlessly inventive display of pleasure in your own gifts. You know, it's a smashing review. But do you still feel like would you still love just to get out there and move and sing and wow them?
Robert Lindsay
Yeah.
Speaker 2
Uh
Robert Lindsay
Uh
Presenter
Yeah, but, you know, like Bill Snipsons don't come around every every all the time either. You know, you have to find I mean, I was offered every single musical, you know, from West Side Story to Man of La Mancha when I left um
Presenter
Broadway. I kn if it comes along it'll be right, and I and I will I'd love to do another musical. I've got to. I mean, while I can still move.
Presenter
Last record.
Presenter
Well, I should go on to Mozart or something, or something rather insular, I guess, or or reflective. But I I I've chosen this and this goes going back again. Uh, when I was a kid I uh I remember going on summer holidays, you know, or they were always raining, wandering around, promenades somewhere.
Presenter
And I found Cinner Armour.
Presenter
Remember Cinerama when it used to go round in tents?
Presenter
And it was just the most amazing experience I went to see Two Thousand and One Space Odyssey, like many other.
Presenter
Kids, I I was sixteen.
Presenter
And I si I've since seen the film twenty times. I think it it was the beginning of a new generation. And it it always leaves me with a a a a cold tingling sensation every time I hear it. So
Presenter
I'm gonna get one now, aren't I?
Presenter
The London Symphony Orchestra playing Richard Strauss's Alzo Sprach Zarathustra from the film two thousand and one. So which is the one record that's most important to you?
Presenter
Oh, of course, I've got to go through this now, haven't I?
Presenter
You were this is quite dreadful, really. I'm going to ch chosen eight pieces and now I've got to choose one. Yeah, well I think it's going to have to be that, because I think if I'm on a desert island and I'm looking at the night sky, I think um
Presenter
I'd find that quite stirring. I'd get very bored of it eventually, but knowing me, I'd be off that island very quickly, so probably.
Presenter
What about your book?
Presenter
That's also been difficult, but it always is, isn't it? Isn't life difficult? I've had a a major choice, and I've I've got rid of my Charles Dickens.
Presenter
Which I really wanted to take, and I was going to take The Prophet by Carl Hill Gibron.
Presenter
But I've now gone for DH Lawrence, and I'm sure there must be a collected work of D H Lawrence there must be.
Presenter
But even if there is, you can't have it because you've got to choose one. No more colla you've got the whole of Shakespeare.
Presenter
Oh, that's good. Well, that'll keep me busy.
Robert Lindsay
Holy shit.
Presenter
And the Bible. I that won't be too much use to me when I and maybe m one on Desert Island maybe it will.
Presenter
All right, I'm going to choose Sons and Lovers.
Presenter
And rehearse the part of Born Morrel, Claire. Ball Morrell. Isn't that funny?
Robert Lindsay
Uh
Presenter
And your luxury?
Presenter
Chess set. My computer chess set.
Presenter
It's not practical, is it? No, it's not. No, I was just I mean, now you've said computer, I understand. I was wondering how you're going to play chess. Yeah, it's every computer chess set. I mean, I don't know that the the batteries will run out eventually, but I can have a solar powered system or something. Great chess player, I love playing chess.
Presenter
Although once did play with Stephen Fry and have never recovered.
Presenter
He's a bit good, is he? Rather good.
Robert Lindsay
Right.
Presenter
Right, a computer chess set it is. And let me say, Robert Lindsay, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island discs. Thank you.
Speaker 2
You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.
Presenter asks
How did you come to do Me and My Girl? It was an obscure thirties musical.
Well that was a and a man called Richard Armitage was sent to see me, who who was the head of Knoll Gay, who I know you know very well. who I think became eventually became my mentor. I mean, he was such a powerful influence on that part of my life. And when I met him I loathed him. I thought he was everything that an agent shouldn't be, you know, cigar smoking on ten phone calls at the same time, not concentrating on And he became like a father figure. I miss him greatly. He's he's since died whi when the show opened on Broadway. But it was his father, of course. Noel Gay. Noel Gay who wrote the whole thing. Yeah, absolutely.
Presenter asks
What was it like becoming the toast of Broadway overnight?
You can't really explain to anyone. I mean, it it you start literally one day anonymous and the next huge star. It just that's how it happens. I mean, you go to ball games and your name's put up in lights and you g the Times Squares puts your reviews up and You go to restaurants and people stand up and applaud and y you don't pay for anything and everything's just done for you. But then you get on this rather frightening treadmill where everyone's com controlling your life for you. You know, and not because you're an Englishman and just refuses to say no, you say yes to everything. You're doing Every chat show, every newspaper, and there's millions of them. The States is a huge country.
Presenter asks
Were you flattered or worried that Alan Bleasdale wrote that dark part for you?
Out of the public limelight, I guess, at places like the Royal Exchange. Various things I've done, and Alan,'cause he's a watcher. you know, a great observer, new, and uh I I'm delighted. … Oh, inevitably there's a dark side to me. I mean, I I'm I think my whole family have a have a dark side, you know, they I think where you come from and where you and how you're brought up doesn't have an effect. Although it's very secure and very lovely, you still there's something about that upbringing that makes you. Tough. And also angry sometimes about certain situations. Yes, there is a dark side.
Presenter asks
Does it become more difficult as you become more successful?
Yeah. … Uh that's my philosophy now. And I'm so the money doesn't matter as much as it did, obviously. No, but but you have to s maintain the same rules, you have to survive, so you've got to combine the two still.
“I was frightened. I remember the day walking into the gates. I had never been so frightened in my life.”
“There was a bit of fantasy there because he was the the rebel. That's when the dang where the danger lies.”
“I remember Derek Jacobi saying to me, Do you never get f nervous? And I I get that tingle, but I I don't get frightened.”
“I think thinking about yourself for too long does. It's very it's very dangerous. And I think that's part of the s symptom of today. I think we all think too much about ourselves.”
“I have never been so blown away in my life. I have never seen anything so beautiful. I wept from start to finish. I was a gibbering wreck when I left that theatre.”