Lord King

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 10:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen ninety one, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:30

My castaway this week is a captain of industry. Always attracted by what he describes as the romance of power, he left school with few qualifications and while still a young man set up a ball-bearing company. From this he made a personal fortune and a public reputation. Showered with appointments and directorships, including the chairmanship of the National Enterprise Board, he was eventually asked to take over Britain's national airline. This is the job he's done for the last ten years, rising every day at 5 a.m. to lead his workforce from debt through privatization and into profit.

Presenter1:05

A fearless huntsman who enjoys crying tally-ho in the cause of capitalism, he is the chairman of British Airways, Lord King.

Presenter1:13

Fearless, heedless of danger when out hunting. Those are the sorts of phrases that your friends use about you, Lord King. Is is that a a fair description, do you think?

Lord King1:22

Well, no, I don't think it's quite fair, because unless you're a bit frightened, I don't think that you you can do very much.

Presenter1:29

But do you feel brave? I mean, Lord Hanson says and we're still in the hunting field at the moment Lord Hanson says you're the bravest huntsman he ever saw.

Lord King1:33

Lord Hansen

Lord King1:36

Well, he's a very polished horseman himself, and it's a great compliment if he says that. I really couldn't comment on whether I'm brave or not. Sometimes I'm not.

Presenter1:46

But would you ever stop and think and go and look for an easy way round instead of taking the big fence? I think that's what we're really asking.

Lord King1:55

Yeah, there are times when uh you c you could say, Well, that would be sheer folly. Now, there is a difference between wanting to do something well and being foolish.

Presenter2:04

So brave but not foolish.

Lord King2:07

Not all the time.

Presenter2:09

And therefore one has to draw the parallel in business. Is that the secret of your success? Being willing to take the high fences if it was the sensible thing to do.

Lord King2:20

But I think a secret in business is really about wanting to do something properly and well.

Lord King2:27

So

Lord King2:28

Um, the opportunity is there, you you the opportunities you you have to keep uh knocking on doors to see if one opens and sooner or later it does.

Presenter2:36

But plenty of people put in a lot of hard work and want to do well but still don't succeed.

Lord King2:43

That's true.

Lord King2:44

So I suppose you want a little bit of luck.

Presenter2:47

Little bit of luck. And you want to have perhaps an enjoyment of a little bit of danger?

Lord King2:52

Well, yes, yes. The risk is is is is exciting, but one doesn't go around taking uh um a lot of risks with other people.

Lord King3:02

especially their money, that you have to look after very carefully.

Presenter3:05

What about your own? You're a racing man. Are you a gambling man?

Lord King3:08

No.

Lord King3:09

I'm not a gambling man.

Lord King3:11

I played back Gammon for a modest sum.

Lord King3:15

The problem with me with gambling is this.

Lord King3:18

That if I win

Lord King3:20

I don't think it's mine, and if I lose I feel sick for a fortnight.

Presenter3:25

Well, now the the odds against rescue on this desert island that we're sending you to are probably um very high. Now how daunting do you find that, that you're stuck there?

Lord King3:37

Yes, I've thought about that, and I suppose the first

Lord King3:41

A week or so would be quite a a relief, actually.

Lord King3:45

and rather agreeable.

Lord King3:47

Uh but then one would concentrate one's mind on uh how to get away. That would be the challenge, how to get away.

Lord King3:57

One of the things I would like to take which you might have th might have thought to be a luxury, but you won't allow it, because I've got a luxury in mind, is a little book about um um a little guide to amateur boat builders.

Presenter4:12

I I suppose according to the rules of the programme it all depends whether you would then use the boat to escape.

Lord King4:16

Oh, yes, I think so.

Presenter4:17

Oh well you can't have it then.

Presenter4:20

Let's have your first record. What would you play on your island?

Lord King4:23

Well, I think Grieg's piano concerto in A minor is something that has a special meaning for me.

Lord King4:30

Uh the record relates actually to the fact that I once struggled for a long time with piano lessons because my mother couldn't understand why I couldn't be a good pianist. Um and neither could I. So and my brother was quite a good musician, excellent pianist and played concert organ and church organs and all that sort of thing.

Lord King4:52

But this, um this was the Walter Missy in the back of my mind, that if I could, that's what I'd do. That's the truthful answer.

Presenter5:00

The waterme in that you were you were a dreamer.

Lord King5:03

Well, yes, I suppose so.

Lord King5:06

Aren't we old?

Lord King5:07

If we tell the truth.

Presenter6:09

Grieg's piano concerto in A minor played by John Ogden with the new Philemonia orchestra conducted by Pavo Berblund.

Presenter6:18

Tell me about uh taking on British Airways about ten years ago it was, wasn't it, when you became chairman?

Speaker 16:23

Uh

Lord King6:23

You became j

Presenter6:24

Where was the danger in that? What what excited you about that?

Lord King6:31

Well, looking at it

Lord King6:34

I had to make a a a a an assessment.

Lord King6:37

as to whether or not it was doable.

Lord King6:40

and I decided it was.

Lord King6:43

Doable.

Presenter6:44

What to drag it out of deficit.

Lord King6:46

And to put it straight.

Lord King6:48

And the reason for that was that I met so many of the people who in the company, in the middle of it.

Lord King6:54

who really did know what was wrong.

Lord King6:58

And when we had to take some twenty-three thousand people out of the system, they understood and it wasn't difficult.

Presenter7:06

But I gather part of the tactic was also to get rid of a lot of the board that were in situ.

Lord King7:12

Well, um, I wanted my own board and the board that was there were all very um

Lord King7:20

distinguished and capable men. But you know, as governments do that with nationalized industries, one of the problems of them is that they say to different people at different times, we'd like you to serve on this board for three years.

Lord King7:34

They didn't really belong. Things have to belong to you.

Presenter7:37

What how would you sum up, though, the most important qualities for a successful captain of industry? You your fearlessness we've talked about. Have you got to be ruthless, too?

Lord King7:48

Well, to be ruthless, if you look in the dictionary, you will see that ruthless is to be without compassion.

Lord King7:55

And compassion is something that you may not be without. So Ruthus is a word that's used rather carelessly.

Presenter8:02

So you're a compassionate man, you would say?

Lord King8:03

I would say so.

Presenter8:05

What are the other qualities, then?

Lord King8:08

Well, it's difficult for me to say what they are because um I d I don't know that one actually s s sits down to say, by the way, what are my qualities? I know what my shortcomings are.

Presenter8:18

What are they?

Lord King8:20

What are they?

Lord King8:23

I think that I uh re over overreact a little.

Lord King8:29

When one writes letters, very critical letters to some, it's far better to put them in the blotter and look at them to morrow. And if you look em the day after that, and the day after that they're not sent.

Presenter8:40

So that's a lesson you've learnt over the years?

Presenter8:43

You're here now in your eleventh year as Chairman of British Airways and your twentieth as Chairman of Babcock International. Do you think that

Presenter8:53

Retirement is a word that heaves into view at this moment.

Lord King8:57

No, I don't really care for that because although one might uh not go on forever with what one is doing now, w you need to get up and go and do something because the rest of it is decay.

Presenter9:11

And you still have the inclination to do that every morning?

Lord King9:14

Um I think still is the wrong

Lord King9:17

I do have it.

Presenter9:20

And you're still learning.

Lord King9:22

Still learning, yes, all the time.

Presenter9:24

Let's have your second record.

Lord King9:27

Um yes. Well, the smugglers song sung by Peter Dawson, which is a a boyhood memory.

Lord King9:38

It's uh

Lord King9:40

Romantic.

Lord King9:41

It's about smugglers, it's about trade, it's about valuables, it's exciting.

Lord King9:47

If you wake at me

Speaker 49:48

Uh

Lord King9:48

It tied at him.

Speaker 49:49

Yeah.

Lord King9:49

Yeah.

Speaker 49:49

Off the spot.

Speaker 49:53

Don't go drawing back the blind or looking in the street. Then the last look where sons is unfolded. Watch the wall, my darling, while the gentlemen go by. Watch the wall, my darling, while the gentlemen go by.

Speaker 410:17

Five and twenty-four is fronting roll the car, Flendy for the parson, Peggy for the clerk, Places for the lady, Flattish for the spy, And watch the wall, my darling, while the gentlemen go by And watch the wall, my darling, while the gentlemen walk

Speaker 110:28

Bye.

Presenter10:33

Once the warlike past

Presenter10:42

A smuggler's song, sung by Peter Dawson, words by Rudyard Kipling, music by Charles G. Mortimer, a record which was a favourite of John King as a small boy, full of excitement and romance. So what did you dream of, Lord King, as a little boy?

Lord King10:58

I guess I dreamt about uh

Lord King11:01

when I would be doing what I'm doing now.

Presenter11:05

Your ambition was to be a captain of industry, was it?

Lord King11:08

I couldn't have been quite as

Lord King11:11

Precise as that at that time, but I wanted to be wanted to be someone.

Presenter11:16

You encouraged to believe

Lord King11:18

Believe that you could. Oh, yes, yes. I used to sit and tell my mother what I was going to do.

Presenter11:25

And what did she say?

Lord King11:26

She put down whatever she was doing and say, Well, John, just as you just don't sit there telling me.

Presenter11:32

Now this was in a little village in in Surrey, where you spent the early part of your life, and your father, who'd been in the army, how many children were there in the family?

Lord King11:41

There were four. Um uh a brother, an older brother.

Lord King11:46

and two sisters.

Lord King11:47

My brother, of course, was uh a musician.

Lord King11:51

And uh

Lord King11:54

I had a lesson in commerce from him and music.

Lord King11:58

He said the devire would pump the organ.

Lord King12:03

until he passed his exam.

Lord King12:05

He would give me his bicycle.

Lord King12:07

I didn't have a bicycle. It wasn't thought that I would be safe with one.

Lord King12:12

He paused.

Lord King12:14

gave me his bicycle and turned up on a new one.

Lord King12:17

No.

Lord King12:19

I said if I'd known that, I would have had the new one.

Lord King12:25

So since then I've tried to research uh offers a little more closely and look behind them.

Presenter12:31

Bonn.

Lord King12:32

By this

Presenter12:33

Sounds as if we ought to have your third record.

Lord King12:36

Trumpet Voluntary by Jeremiah Clark

Lord King12:39

After pumping this organ for about an hour, he would finish on that.

Lord King12:46

And that's how I remembered it very well.

Presenter13:41

The trumpet voluntary, played by Maurice Andre, accompanied by Jane Parker Smith, on the organ. By all accounts you you were quite a a natty dresser as a young man in your twenties. Savalrose suits and plus fours, is that right?

Lord King13:55

Yes, I suppose so.

Presenter13:58

You like nice movie cars, too.

Lord King14:00

Oh, yes.

Presenter14:00

Always have.

Lord King14:01

His

Presenter14:03

What was your favourite, then?

Lord King14:05

I had a Bugatte for many years.

Lord King14:10

If I kept it instead of selling it, they were worth the f king's ransom now.

Presenter14:16

But now, I mean, we talked about your early years and I mean, obviously, it was not a a a well off family at all. They were a b a a hard working family. How could you afford the plus fours and the and the motor cars?

Lord King14:29

Well, um of course when one did uh

Presenter14:29

Yeah.

Lord King14:34

uh earn a little money with a variety of uh

Speaker 114:35

Uh

Presenter14:35

Yeah.

Lord King14:39

Jobs. Like what? Oh, I used to put up the cinema um posters.

Presenter14:40

Like what?

Lord King14:46

around the district during the holidays for which I would get um some free tickets which I would sell.

Presenter14:54

What was your first proper full time job?

Lord King14:58

My first proper job really was uh in an engineering works, in one of the things they made, with vacuum cleaner, motors.

Presenter15:06

And you made bits and pieces to go in.

Lord King15:08

That's how I guess.

Presenter15:08

Yeah.

Presenter15:09

But by the the your mid-twenties, just just before the war, you'd set up your own engineering company, hadn't you? Now

Lord King15:14

Yeah.

Presenter15:17

How did you manage to do that? I mean, you needed money and you needed support and

Lord King15:22

Yes, well I I had um saved a little and I borrowed some.

Presenter15:27

What did you do in the war, then?

Lord King15:29

I'm during the war, of course, my engineering works with manufacturing for Rolls-Royce on aero engines.

Presenter15:37

But then just after the war, when you were about twenty-eight, you you bought a whole village in Yorkshire, didn't you? Now why?

Lord King15:44

Well, it it uh it's not quite true that I bought a whole village. I b I bought um a derelict site.

Lord King15:52

And that went very well.

Presenter15:53

What did you make?

Lord King15:54

I made all kinds of things. But uh we were seeking for

Lord King15:58

um, products. But um then one day um someone said that this Borberian company could I said, Well, how could I buy a Borbering company? And they said, Well, there is a little company.

Lord King16:13

and I went straightway to see the man and called on him at nine o'clock that night.

Presenter16:18

And that was the beginning of your success. Let's have your fourth record.

Lord King16:22

The fourth record is Nabucco.

Lord King16:25

CORES OF THE Hebrew Slaves

Lord King16:28

I tell my friends that if e that if ever I am gathered

Lord King16:32

And they can come and listen to it and snuffle out of the church listening to this.

Presenter17:36

The Chorus of the Hebrew Slaves from Verdis Nabucco, with the Royal Opera House Chorus and the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Robin Stapleton.

Presenter17:45

So the ball bearing was the making of John King, financially anyway.

Lord King17:49

Financially, anyway. Yes, the the the then Labour Government formed uh an organization called the Industrial Reorganization Corporation and uh eventually they they bid a price for my company. I didn't want to sell it because I loved it. But the price wa was such that it would have been wrong.

Presenter18:08

The price was right.

Lord King18:09

Yeah.

Presenter18:09

How much did it mean to you to become a millionaire, as it were?

Lord King18:16

I didn't notice any difference because I had some other things to do. You don't stop and say, Wait a minute, I'm worth a million.

Presenter18:22

What about your parents? Did did they enjoy the fruits of your success with you?

Lord King18:25

Yes, yes. Had nothing to worry about.

Presenter18:29

They say there's one call that you never refuse to take, however busy you are, whatever important meeting you're in, and that's from a member of your family. Is that true?

Lord King18:36

That's right, yes.

Presenter18:37

That's a rule that's a king rule, is it?

Lord King18:39

The sun.

Lord King18:40

Might be important.

Presenter18:42

Absolutely.

Lord King18:43

But if it is about the family, then it is important.

Presenter18:46

Well now going back to you post war and and

Presenter18:50

Ma building up this company, making yourself um a rich man. You also learned to hunt at that time, didn't you?

Lord King18:59

Well, yes, when in nineteen forty eight

Lord King19:02

I was uh asked if I would like to be the master of the Badsworth in Yorkshire, and I was for ten years. And of course, with my factories there, I could go in in the morning with the top coat on and

Lord King19:16

to see what was going on, nip off for a day's hunting and come back about fall.

Presenter19:20

Yes, so you took to that easily. You also learned to fly, didn't you?

Lord King19:23

Well, yes, I had a um an a a few aeroplanes, yes.

Presenter19:27

Any near misses?

Lord King19:29

The first plane I had was a Tiger Moth, the next one was an Oster, the next one was a Messenger, Miles Messenger.

Lord King19:37

And um I went home to luncheon it and put it down in a stubble field. And during the lunch hour it rained.

Lord King19:47

So when I went to take off, although I got the tail up, I couldn't get the plane off, and just at the last minute I got it off about forty feet.

Lord King19:56

and wrecked it, and I got out and walked away.

Lord King20:00

But that's folly. That that was now that's folly.

Presenter20:03

Yeah.

Lord King20:03

Uh

Presenter20:04

Uh

Lord King20:04

Uh

Presenter20:04

Yeah.

Lord King20:04

That's being stupid.

Presenter20:04

Uh

Presenter20:05

Trying to jump a hedge from a wet field in an aeroplane. But you've obviously enjoyed your money. You enjoy your money, Lord King. What's the most extravagant thing you've ever done with it?

Lord King20:07

Yeah.

Lord King20:16

Oh, I don't know that I've done anything very extravagant.

Lord King20:21

Um, I don't really get a lot of pleasure out of spending money. I I'm very careful with money.

Lord King20:27

Are you mean?

Lord King20:30

Well, it depends what Thrifty.

Lord King20:34

Ah, that's the word. Yes, I admire

Lord King20:37

The

Lord King20:38

Virtual of thrift and saving.

Presenter20:41

Record number five.

Lord King20:43

Caruso

Lord King20:45

Which is a

Lord King20:47

Pepperotti

Lord King20:49

Um

Lord King20:50

I had some difficulty in in

Lord King20:53

in tracing it, but I I'm because I just heard it and it didn't belong to an opera.

Lord King20:58

And I think it's exciting.

Speaker 421:00

Therefore you are branded.

Speaker 421:06

My friend Guten

Speaker 421:11

By us.

Speaker 421:17

Hey, what?

Speaker 421:19

And I'm more.

Speaker 421:25

Echo yes interviews.

Presenter21:30

Luciano Pavarotti singing Caruso by Lucio Dalla.

Presenter21:35

Now tell me a bit more about you on the desert island. Would you continue to get up at five o'clock in the morning with all that energy you talk about? Is that because really rather like misses Thatcher, you just don't need much sleep, or do you go to bed very early?

Lord King21:46

Yeah.

Lord King21:47

Let me tell you about the five o'clock business.

Lord King21:51

I do wake up at five.

Lord King21:53

And I read from five to six, and I read the books I want to read.

Lord King21:59

From six to seven, I read some of the things I don't want to read and maybe have a little twenty minute snap and say, My God, it's now seven.

Presenter22:08

Ah.

Lord King22:09

And then we start.

Presenter22:11

You are a Thatcherite in in many ways. You were once um said to be her favourite business man, weren't you? Did you enjoy that title?

Lord King22:18

I don't remember ever telling me.

Lord King22:21

Yeah.

Lord King22:24

She, um, is a marvelous woman, of course, and came in and has, um

Lord King22:29

provided the opportunity for so many people to do things.

Lord King22:34

Mm-hmm.

Lord King22:35

But the wheel turns.

Lord King22:37

Yes.

Presenter22:39

But you were good friends, weren't you?

Presenter22:42

Yes, are you still?

Lord King22:44

Yes?

Presenter22:45

Has it been and is it still important to you to know important people?

Presenter22:51

Whether it's other captains of industry or Prime Ministers or Cabinet Ministers or royalty indeed, is that an important part of your life?

Lord King22:59

Well, important people. Some people are not as important as one might think.

Lord King23:04

But interesting people, people that have done something.

Lord King23:08

And of course you have to I mean I I by by w in nineteen sixty eight I went on a

Lord King23:15

week's holiday and Reagan was in the party and we rode down the

Lord King23:19

old Spanish missions on the

Lord King23:21

west coast of America.

Presenter23:24

But do you enjoy that? W do you keep photographs of yourself with influential people about the place?

Lord King23:30

Well, of course, it wouldn't be truthful if I said no.

Lord King23:34

So, but not too many.

Presenter23:37

Because you've managed it quite well, really, haven't you? You were you were knighted by a Labour Prime Minister and you were given your peerage by Mrs. Thatcher, James Callaghan, Mrs. Thatcher.

Lord King23:44

James

Lord King23:46

He James Callahan's wonderful chap, really. Whenever I see him, he says, Don't forget I gave you your start.

Presenter23:53

Any other um ambitions in that area, or do you think you've got all you're going to get now?

Lord King23:56

You've got a

Lord King23:57

I would like to uh find the time to spend more time in the House of Lords because it is a fascinating place and

Lord King24:05

Whatever the subject, there's someone there that really does know.

Presenter24:10

Let's have some more music there.

Lord King24:12

The Flower Song is my record.

Lord King24:15

It's a duet from Lacme, the opera Lacme.

Presenter24:19

I wonder why you want that.

Lord King24:21

Well, it seemed to me

Lord King24:24

That you see an advertisement.

Lord King24:27

and you hear the music.

Lord King24:29

You say, What was that? I know what it was. Wait a minute, I'm and so you s sit around until you see that advertisement again. And some young fellow came up with this.

Lord King24:39

And uh

Lord King24:41

I just uh think it's romantic. I love it.

Speaker 425:09

I need to

Presenter25:45

The flower song duet from L'Acme by Delibe, sung by Madie Mesplet and Danielle Millet, with the Orqueste du Terreatre Nationale de l'Opre Comique, conducted by Alain Lombard.

Presenter25:56

How much do you have to do with the day to day running of British Airways, the decisions on buying new planes or cutting the number of staff and so on? Rumour has it that you you personally once had the first class seat redesigned'cause you kept losing your spectacles down the back of it.

Lord King26:12

Well, it seemed to me that that that th th they slipped down there and I said, Why can't you put a little bar on there so that I don't have to go to the back of the airplane for my dashes? And they did.

Presenter26:18

Now

Presenter26:23

And they did.

Presenter26:25

It was done.

Lord King26:26

This right.

Presenter26:28

Uh the the other rumour, of course, is that that's raised its head from time to time is that um there was there were several attempts to to hijack you, as it were, by Pan Am.

Lord King26:38

Yes, they they there was a suggestion that I should go and run that.

Lord King26:43

Good job, you didn't.

Presenter26:44

Right there, when you think

Lord King26:45

I don't know. The bouncer might have been difficult. But you know what?

Lord King26:49

Why didn't you?

Presenter26:53

Why not?

Lord King26:55

You know, if you're going to do something well, you have to love it a bit.

Lord King27:00

And

Lord King27:00

This this is a great company.

Lord King27:03

Is that

Presenter27:03

Is that

Presenter27:05

Is that because of the company itself, or is that because?

Presenter27:08

of your deep patriotic spirit.

Lord King27:12

No, I don't think it's about a deep patriotic spirit. I think it's about because of the company, because of the people who meet in it.

Lord King27:19

You have to have regard and respect and affection. You can't put your heart into it if

Lord King27:26

If it isn't a proper receptacle.

Presenter27:29

And what is the future of the airline business in your view? I mean, we hear about British Airways going into partnership with Aeroflot or wanting to take shares in Sabina, the Belgian airline. Is that the way ahead, cross ownership?

Lord King27:41

Well, we

Lord King27:44

are looking um to form a new airline to have forty-nine percent of a new airline to fly out of Berlin.

Lord King27:54

Greater Europe and elsewhere. It's about that big world out there and that's where the competition is. So we have to grow in that and we have to become stronger, not weaker.

Presenter28:04

But is that the future, that national airlines should really be rather more than national should be international in the future?

Lord King28:09

Oh yeah. It's only the one planet. You got just buzz around that. There's nowhere else to go really.

Presenter28:16

So if you were a young man again starting over, would you find the airline industry exciting today? Or is it now too confined by this one planet?

Lord King28:22

It was

Lord King28:25

Well, well, you you you d you you make a good point there. I still find it exciting because I'm determined that it that is the way I see it.

Lord King28:35

But we are regulated.

Lord King28:37

We are regulated to death.

Lord King28:40

And that seems to be the way of governments that have been in for any length of time. They come in to set you free and they finish up tying you down.

Presenter28:49

Why do you think they do that?

Lord King28:50

It's the nature of politicians and

Lord King28:53

And um

Lord King28:56

become bureaucratic.

Presenter28:59

Record number seven.

Lord King29:01

Yes.

Lord King29:03

She's leaving home.

Lord King29:05

It's a haunting little melody, The Beatles.

Lord King29:09

Because uh when I heard it

Lord King29:11

I thought that is a fascinating sad sad.

Lord King29:15

Throat catching

Lord King29:17

And uh

Lord King29:19

It's a it's a melody or tune, whatever you like to call it.

Lord King29:22

That one can't quite grasp.

Lord King29:25

You half remember.

Lord King29:27

So you want to hear it again?

Speaker 429:29

She we gave her most of our lives Ms. Levin sacrificed most of our lives

Speaker 429:42

We gave her everything the money could buy She's leaving home after living alone

Presenter29:55

Beetle She's Leaving Home from the Sergeant Pepper album. It's a it's a poignant little song, isn't it? I mean, we obviously gather from quite a few pieces of your music that you're you're

Speaker 130:00

Cylinder

Presenter30:06

Quite an old softy at heart.

Lord King30:09

About that perhaps, uh but it's uh it's sad and y and it's charming.

Lord King30:14

And it's got to be real about some one.

Presenter30:18

But you know, I mean, you've over the years cultivated quite a sort of gruff, bluff northern image really, although as we've heard, you began in the south. That's not really accurate, is it, that image?

Lord King30:25

Yeah.

Lord King30:28

And um

Presenter30:29

But you like having such

Lord King30:31

No, I don't, but um

Presenter30:31

Do you know?

Lord King30:33

I don't know how. I I mean, I've had to do some things that have been fairly

Lord King30:38

It's

Lord King30:39

Difficult.

Lord King30:41

much easier not to do them.

Lord King30:44

But not to do them and to be weak about it is really very bad for

Lord King30:51

For the rest of the people in the organization. I think you have to face up to doing these things.

Presenter30:56

You have done them, you have done an awful lot, as we've heard. You you don't much care for looking backwards, do you? You don't much care for people who say

Presenter31:05

Here's a young man who came along with nothing and he's made an awful lot. Why don't you like that that um

Lord King31:08

Made of

Lord King31:11

I don't like that because I think that it's um trying to say that you're clever.

Lord King31:16

And I'm not. I just go about my work in a determined sort of way. But you must be proud of what you've achieved.

Lord King31:24

I'm proud of what I have achieved, and I spend most of my time thinking about the things that I should have achieved.

Presenter31:31

Is there a great achievement left?

Lord King31:36

I think there is, yes.

Lord King31:39

I mean there's a lot wrong in the world. What do you want to tackle?

Lord King31:44

There's a lot to do.

Presenter31:47

And you still want to do it?

Lord King31:48

Yes.

Presenter31:50

Last record.

Lord King31:52

Jerusalem

Presenter31:56

Go online.

Lord King31:56

Jerusalem. Why Jerusalem?

Lord King31:59

Well

Lord King32:00

Jerusalem. See, that takes me back.

Lord King32:03

Mother was a great one with the W I. Do you know what about the W I?

Lord King32:09

and the mother's union, and I used to go with her.

Lord King32:14

quite small and they look very big. And in those days there was all that red on the map, you know, which was just

Lord King32:22

Bijempa.

Lord King32:25

So standing there and looking up, I can see the I can see the texture and the and and the colour, the mauvish tint to the raincoat that my mother had.

Lord King32:36

slight sheen, I think it was.

Lord King32:38

And there were all these ladies with big busts and I thought um making jam and wearing big hats and

Lord King32:47

So that seemed to me to be the power and might of the empire at that time from that height of four or five years old. And in addition to that, it makes me want to cry.

Speaker 433:00

Did those things in ancient time?

Presenter33:56

Jerusalem with the B B C Welsh Chorus and Symphony Orchestra.

Presenter34:01

Well, Lord King, you have to choose one of those eight records, which is more important to you than any of the others. Have you got a thought on that?

Lord King34:08

I think we'll have the piano concerto.

Presenter34:10

The Greek

Lord King34:11

Hmm.

Presenter34:12

Right. And then we come to the book. Now, you mentioned earlier this this

Presenter34:16

Building a boat from a book.

Lord King34:18

Grab that. I would like to take the Reverend Cobham Brough's phrase and fable.

Lord King34:25

Yeah.

Lord King34:26

A derivation, source of origin of common phrases and allusions, and words that have a tale to tell.

Lord King34:35

So that that would occupy me. I would find all the memory that I wanted in there.

Presenter34:39

Okay, then you can have that. It's stretching a point. It's a slight reference book, but as you've scrapped the boat building book, and I think we'll allow you to have that one.

Lord King34:47

You're really good.

Presenter34:48

And your luxury.

Lord King34:49

Luxury I would like a a d a a a humidor full of uh adequate supply of cigars.

Presenter34:56

Oh yes, that's all right, and some matches as well.

Lord King34:58

Yes. Although if of course there were no matches I would find a flint and a

Lord King35:03

and get a spark from somewhere.

Presenter35:05

All right, then we'll we'll we'll we'll leave the matches.

Lord King35:06

You have the matches.

Presenter35:07

All right. The matches and lots of cigars. Lord King, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Lord King35:14

Thank you.

Speaker 135:23

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.