Brian Eno

Speaker 20:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 20:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen ninety one.

Speaker 20:12

And the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:29

My Castaway this week is a rock musician. As the flamboyant keyboard player of the group Roxy Music, he achieved huge popular success, but at the height of his fame he gave up the world of wigs, gigs, and adoring fans to experiment with electronic music.

Presenter0:44

Now widely admired for the way in which he revolutionized background music in airports and supermarkets, and for his experiments with video art, he's become the intellectual guru of the rock world. Nor has innovation reduced his popularity. As a collaborator with David Bowie and as producer of the group U Two, he's made sure that his name has stayed in the mainstream too. He is Brian

Presenter1:08

You are, Brian, almost impossible to uh pigeonhole for the purposes of of an introduction like that. I mean, is that something you take a delight in?

Brian Eno1:16

It's something I find difficult as well. If people ask me what I do, I always say, Well, I'm a chartered accountant.

Brian Eno1:22

Unless there's a lot of time to explain things, I tell them a lie.

Presenter1:25

And and having explained, I mean, it it can make you sound like a a bit of a dabbler, can't it? A bit of a dilettante.

Brian Eno1:31

Well, I am a dilettante and

Brian Eno1:33

It's only in England, I think, that dilettantism is considered a rather bad thing to do. But I mean, in other countries, dilettantism is called interdisciplinary research. That's what I think of it as.

Presenter1:44

That's what you do. I mean, you're right, actually. I mean, there's an implication that you trifle with things, isn't it? That you that you toy with things. If you're a dilettante, you you are not.

Brian Eno1:49

But you would

Presenter1:52

You know, you're not really being serious about anything, but you don't mind being thought to do that.

Brian Eno1:56

No, I don't mind. And also I think that a lot of the interesting things that happen happen on the borders of things and on the on the places where different areas overlap.

Presenter2:06

So so you work in depth at the edges?

Brian Eno2:09

Yes, okay, that's what I do.

Presenter2:11

What about the desert island? How are you looking forward to it?

Brian Eno2:15

I would love to be able to say that I could cope with this and be a wonderfully content human being, but actually the world I enjoy being in is so much the world of culture that I think I would find the idea of sitting on a desert island having only nature for my friend absolutely terrifying. I'm always trying to make a blend between nature and culture. You know, New York is too much culture and not enough nature, and Woodbridge, where I currently live, is a bit too much nature and not enough culture. So I can never find really the place I want to live, but I don't think it would be a desert island.

Presenter2:49

But music would help, of course, for you.

Brian Eno2:52

Yes, I think it would help. I I thought about this question of music a lot and wondered whether.

Brian Eno2:57

taking things you liked was even the right approach at all, and whether it would be a good idea to take things that you really didn't like, that were completely challenging, pieces that you had been told were quite good, but you had no affection for yourself, like in my case, late Bruckner would be a good example.

Presenter3:14

But you've decided against such a move, have you?

Brian Eno3:16

Well, I thought it would make such a bad radio program, and it's the truth of it.

Presenter3:21

Right. What's the first one that you play then?

Brian Eno3:24

The first thing I'm playing is something that was one of a group of songs that were very big influences on me as a kid.

Brian Eno3:31

In fact, they sounded to me like music from outer space when I first picked them up on my little transistor radio late at night.

Brian Eno3:38

This is a song by Jean Chandler called The Duke of Earl.

Speaker 33:41

You are my girl, and no one can hurt you.

Speaker 33:46

Oh no, yes I

Speaker 33:52

Oh I'm going to love

Speaker 33:56

Come on, I'm in for ya!

Speaker 34:01

But do come to me!

Speaker 34:04

So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Presenter4:08

Jean Chandler and Duke of Earle, the American doo-op music which was one of the first influences on Brian Eno, yeah.

Brian Eno4:14

It's a very big influence. I I mean listening to music like that I realized I could make music.

Presenter4:20

But you you have, haven't you? Aren't you a backing singer on quite a lot of tracks that we don't know about?

Brian Eno4:25

Yes, I love doing backing singing. I I've got a good voice for backing singing'cause it's my voice is so thin and kind of uh weedy in a way. It works well when it's when it's stacked up, you know, when when I stack a few of them on top of one another.

Presenter4:38

But you never tell anybody whose records you're singing on.

Brian Eno4:41

I often do it anonymously, yes. I prefer that, yeah.

Presenter4:45

Talking about anonymity, your your name cannot have insured you anonymity. You must, Brian Eno, have been known at school as Beno, surely.

Brian Eno4:53

I was. Actually most of the time, until even until I was about twenty-eight, I was known just as Eno. Nobody used my first name, Brian.

Brian Eno5:01

I'd be quite happy if they didn't know, actually.

Presenter5:03

You've got more than Brian, haven't you? I mean, you've got an enormously long name.

Brian Eno5:07

Yeah, it's it's from being a Catholic.

Presenter5:09

Go on, are you gonna say it, or shall I?

Brian Eno5:10

You see it.

Presenter5:12

Well, tell me if this is how you do it. Brian, Peter, George, Saint John the Baptiste de la Salle, Eno.

Brian Eno5:17

That's really good, yes.

Presenter5:19

Yes. Do you use all of that?

Brian Eno5:20

No, I don't. I mean, forms don't usually have enough space for that much name.

Presenter5:25

Now tell me about your family. This is all at home where you say you still live, Woodbridge, in Suffolk.

Brian Eno5:29

Mm-hmm.

Presenter5:30

Um now, your father was a postman, but so were lots of other members of your family, weren't they? You come from a long line of postmen, is that right?

Brian Eno5:37

Yes, we've been dealing with communications for many generations.

Presenter5:40

Yeah.

Brian Eno5:42

And I'm carrying on the tradition. Yeah, my father was a postman, my grandfather was a postman, my great grandfather was a vet and part time postman, my uncle was a postman,

Brian Eno5:52

But they also all did other things, like my grandfather was the only bassoon player in Suffolk.

Brian Eno5:59

In the twenties, he also played tenor sax and he built mechanical organs.

Brian Eno6:05

My father repaired clocks and watches, my uncle repaired porcelain.

Brian Eno6:11

and was a an a watercolourist, a landscape painter.

Presenter6:15

So they were all postmen with passions for something else.

Brian Eno6:17

Postman with passions, that sounds good, yes.

Presenter6:18

Yeah.

Presenter6:20

So you got the passion, but not the postal services?

Brian Eno6:22

No, actually I did do the post two Christmases when I was young.

Brian Eno6:26

I get to have the family experience.

Presenter6:26

You know what?

Presenter6:28

Your passion was tape recorders, wasn't it?

Brian Eno6:31

Yes, I was I'm still very keen on them. And the first music I ever made really was made with a tape recorder. So it was my first instrument, and I guess it's still my primary instrument.

Presenter6:42

What did you do with it even then?

Brian Eno6:44

The very first piece I ever made involved striking a a big metal lamp shade with a pen and then slowing the tape down considerably and and running it at several different speeds. So I made a

Brian Eno6:56

P is not very different from the kind of music I do now actually.

Brian Eno7:00

Nothing's really progressed a lot.

Presenter7:02

Let's have your second record.

Brian Eno7:04

My second record is um

Brian Eno7:06

Taken along for several reasons. It it's a kind of music that I have a great affection for, West African pop, but it's also the best keep fit music. This is the best dance music I've ever heard. And I think one of the problems sitting on this island would be trying to stay in tone in some way or another. And with this record, I can't sit still.

Speaker 37:48

Hallelujah, joy, keep joy.

Speaker 37:53

Ha ha

Presenter7:56

Fellow Ransom Cootie and The Africa Seventy and Aloojon Jonky John Island press-up music for Brianino.

Presenter8:04

So you went to art school in Ipswich and then art college in Winchester, and that was in the sixties. Were you a conventional child of the sixties? I mean duffle-coated and beetle loving, or were you something else again?

Brian Eno8:15

I was a bit mixed up because I was a Mardat one time, but I didn't have a motor scooter.

Brian Eno8:20

So I was a sort of a rather conceptual mod, I would say. Then I I went to art college, yes, and I was a sort of a beatnik as well for a while. There was a big crossover at that time between young beatniks and young mods.

Presenter8:34

You crossed over in other ways, too, didn't you? Didn't you go into women's clothes at this stage?

Brian Eno8:37

I used to wear a lot of women's clothes, yes. For instance, velvet bodices and things like that. I d I didn't um wear skirts very often.

Presenter8:46

Feather bowers, or was that later?

Brian Eno8:48

Uh yeah, I I wore feather things, that that kind of thing. I used to get all my clothes from jumbo sales and I'd

Brian Eno8:53

They're not really sorted as as regards sex in jumbo sale stalls, you know, so I just used to pick up anything I liked the look of.

Presenter9:00

And you wore make up, too, did you?

Brian Eno9:02

Mm-hmm.

Brian Eno9:02

Yeah.

Presenter9:03

It must have been one of the first. I mean, this was before Bowie was doing it, and Boy George was never heard of at that stage.

Brian Eno9:08

He was a very young boy, George, I think, infant George.

Presenter9:12

Will be one of the first, do you think?

Brian Eno9:14

Yes, I think so, yes. Though, of course, there was a background among gay men of doing that. So I was.

Brian Eno9:22

I may have been one of the first heterosexuals to do that.

Presenter9:27

And you did this publicly, I mean, more than just hanging around Winchester, because you'd formed a group. I mean, you were performing, weren't you, with the the Maxwell Demons, is that right?

Brian Eno9:35

That's right, yes. That was a band that rehearsed a tremendous amount and performed very little.

Presenter9:41

But what sort of noise did they make?

Brian Eno9:43

I'd love to know. I wish I had any recordings. I'm sure it was terrible in one respect, in that.

Brian Eno9:52

The instruments we had were very crude and

Brian Eno9:56

My instrument I I sang, but my my other instrument was

Brian Eno10:00

My first approach to electronics, which was a thing called a signals generator. It's used for testing electronic equipment. It generates very pure.

Brian Eno10:09

and very loud sine waves.

Brian Eno10:12

I just used to wave this thing around and moo woo woo through all the songs.

Brian Eno10:18

Um

Presenter10:19

You kind of ventured into a form of classical music as well around then, didn't you? Weren't you part of the Portsmouth Symphonia, about which I think everyone who was around in the sixties has a memory? Because it made the most horrendous noise.

Brian Eno10:29

Because he made

Brian Eno10:32

Well, we liked it.

Brian Eno10:34

It was only the audience who felt that way about it. The Portsmouth Symphonia was an orchestra.

Presenter10:34

But one was

Brian Eno10:39

that any one could belong to.

Brian Eno10:41

You could be a good musician, or you didn't have to be. The point of the thing was to try your hardest to play the piece well.

Brian Eno10:48

And we only played the popular classics and only the hit parts of them. That's why, on our programmes, we could offer.

Brian Eno10:55

Sort of 25 symphonies as the evening's entertaining.

Presenter10:59

It was very funny. I mean, you didn't mind that, did you? I mean

Brian Eno11:02

No, it was very funny indeed. We had a conductor called John Farley, who was a wonderful person who nobody paid any attention to. He would stand in front of us waving his arms. In fact, I remember our big concert at the Royal Albert Hall.

Brian Eno11:16

He was standing there waving away as usual, and his baton flew out of his hand and into about the eighth row of the audience. He left the stage and went to retrieve it, and everybody just carried on playing.

Presenter11:28

I I see you have no need at all for any music from the Portsmouth Symphonia on the Desert Island.

Brian Eno11:33

It's funny I left them out, isn't it?

Presenter11:34

Go and what's the next one then?

Brian Eno11:37

The next one is

Brian Eno11:39

The only record that I have any connection with, I kind of made a rule to not take records that I was in any way connected with. However, I have worked with two of the members of this band. This is called The Valve Underground. They were sponsored by Andy Warhol and they they came out of that uh New York scene of the late sixties.

Brian Eno11:58

And they were very, very contrarian at the time. This was at a time when everyone was singing about wearing flowers in their hair. And the Velve Underground came out with songs like Heroin and Waiting for the Man and so on, which were very tough, urban, and I thought amazing songs. I remember first hearing this record and going completely crazy about it.

Brian Eno12:21

Walking around with the album for about a year saying to everyone, you must listen to this band, this is the future. Well, it turned out to be true. You know, if you read interviews with young bands now, at least I mean 75% of them will say Velvet Underground was a big influence.

Speaker 312:37

There's always someone around you who will come.

Speaker 312:44

It's nothing at all.

Speaker 312:51

Sounding holy.

Speaker 312:56

I follow you.

Speaker 313:01

Out of feeling, I don't know.

Presenter13:08

Sunday morning from Velvet Underground

Presenter13:11

So you played the signals generator with the Maxwell Demons. You played the clarinet with the Portsmouth Symphonia. I mean, could you play the clarinet?

Brian Eno13:18

No, but I couldn't play the signals generator either.

Presenter13:21

And then you hit the keyboard with Roxy Music. Now could you play the keyboard?

Brian Eno13:24

Could you play the keyboard? No, no, another instrument I couldn't play. Maybe one of the things I could do on the desert island is build an instrument that I could play.

Presenter13:31

So tell me about Roxy Music then, nineteen seventy one, you, Brian Ferry, Andy Mackay. Um suddenly you were a hit, weren't you? I mean, you were adored by a teenage nation. How did you react to that?

Brian Eno13:43

I didn't enjoy it as much as you might think. The first thing is I remember very often standing on stage looking at the audience and thinking but you could be doing this.

Brian Eno13:52

And

Brian Eno13:53

That wasn't to diminish what we were doing. I liked what Roxy did, and I thought that it was interesting and valuable and.

Brian Eno14:01

It was really something new in popular music.

Presenter14:04

I read somewhere that you also used to stand on the stage, not just thinking Eulock could be up here doing this, but, you know, oh God, did I change my underpants this morning? Did I get my dry cleaning?

Brian Eno14:13

Well, the story's got a got a little coarser than what I what I remember is on one concert standing there doing some backing vocals.

Brian Eno14:23

For a song, and suddenly remembering that I hadn't picked up my laundry.

Brian Eno14:27

I thought then, at that moment, I thought, do I really want to be involved in an activity that engages me as little as this?

Presenter14:33

Mm-hmm.

Brian Eno14:34

Um

Presenter14:35

And you roomed with Brian Ferry. Did you fall out with Brian Ferry?

Brian Eno14:39

Oh yeah, we had a a very big rift. It was a typical clash of young male egos, I think, really. What had happened was that because I was visually so bizarre looking, I got a lot of press attention. The press is always are always interested in people who make good photographs, and I made good photographs.

Brian Eno14:59

That did rather distort the impression of where the creative leadership of the band was. It was definitely Brian's band, you know.

Presenter15:08

It's just that you wore the feather bar.

Brian Eno15:09

Yeah, and I I probably got more attention than I deserved, um or perhaps I should say he got less attention than he deserved.

Brian Eno15:18

So this this created a real problem in the band.

Brian Eno15:21

It was something that I must say was almost not of my doing either.

Presenter15:26

So you departed into your experimental period about which we shall hear in a minute, but let's first have record number four.

Brian Eno15:33

At about the time I left Roxy there was there were some new things happening in jazz, spearheaded by Miles Davis, who was making records that were highly controversial and

Brian Eno15:45

Pretty unpopular.

Brian Eno15:46

in that they they used a kind of rock format and a rock sound to make a music that was very diffuse and somewhat incoherent actually. I found this music extremely interesting and it was it pointed up an interest that I noticed I was as a composer more and more involved with, which is the concept of music as landscape in some way.

Brian Eno16:08

Instead of the idea of music as tunes or as narratives or as little stories or as classical structures, I became more and more certain that I wanted to make music that was kind of a description of a place or an evocation of a place, so that when you put the music on, it was like going somewhere. It was a system of transport, if you like. You just went somewhere for the duration of that music. And this particular record by Miles Davis is a very good example of that. It's called He Loved Him Madly.

Presenter17:39

Miles Davis and He Loved Him Madly. It was before you came across that Miles Davis recording, wasn't it, that you'd had your idea for background music. I mean, you came across it, I think, by accident, really.

Brian Eno17:51

Yes, quite literally. I had an accident. I was hit by a taxi on the way home from a recording studio one evening. Uh I wasn't seriously hurt, but I was immobile for a few days.

Brian Eno18:02

And

Brian Eno18:04

Laying in bed, a friend came to visit me and as she left I said, Would you mind putting a record on for me? It was a record called Virtuoso Harp Music. Um very nice.

Brian Eno18:14

Very quiet album.

Brian Eno18:16

And she put the record on and left. It was a very rainy day. The rain was beating against the windows.

Brian Eno18:22

And one of my speakers had failed, and she hadn't turned the record up very loud either. So all I heard was the sound of rain with occasionally the loudest notes of the harp just appearing through almost like raindrops. And at first I was very annoyed because I couldn't get up to change the volume. I was stuck with this thing until someone else came to visit me.

Brian Eno18:43

After a while, I started to listen to it and to think this is really a new way of listening to music, not as um.

Brian Eno18:50

A focal event, but as part of the ambience of your life, as a surrounding, you know.

Brian Eno18:56

So I started thinking then of creating a music that you used in the way that you might use light in a room.

Brian Eno19:02

or use colour as an aspect of the atmosphere of the room.

Brian Eno19:08

Now this really

Brian Eno19:10

Led me to start thinking about music in quite a different way. I thought it was rather interesting to make music that.

Brian Eno19:17

existed

Brian Eno19:18

Like a painting exists on the wall. When you have a painting on the wall, you don't sit and stare at it all the time. You look at it sometimes and then you

Brian Eno19:26

Get on with what you're doing. Then you might look at it again.

Brian Eno19:29

It's the way people use records anyway. You know, when people buy a record, they don't generally go home and sit in front of their speakers with hawk like ears. They they generally go home, put the record on and then do the washing up or

Brian Eno19:45

hoover the house or, you know, do the things that they do.

Presenter19:48

Yes, but they've still made a point of putting the music on so they know it's there. I mean, if you're going into an airport or a supermarket

Brian Eno19:50

So they

Presenter19:54

You haven't you have no intention of listening to any music, have you? I you mean, is it is it worth while, therefore, really?

Brian Eno20:01

Um I think if you stay with the analogy of a painting.

Brian Eno20:04

of a thing that exists and can absorb full attention, but doesn't require full attention the whole time.

Brian Eno20:12

Um this is this is rather what I

Brian Eno20:15

hoped would happen with music.

Presenter20:17

So do you now walk into the supermarket or the airport and hear your own music? Are you wrapped around by your own music?

Brian Eno20:22

I have heard it in one or two airports. I had a very good experience recently. I was going through Heathrow and.

Brian Eno20:30

went to the passport check and

Brian Eno20:33

The man said in a rather surly way, Sign this, please, and gave me a piece of paper. I thought he was checking my signature. He said, Oh, thanks. I really love music for airports.

Brian Eno20:43

My wife and I play it all the time, so it's a popular record with airport staff.

Presenter20:48

Selling steadily. Perhaps every castaway should have a chunk of it on the division.

Brian Eno20:51

Yeah.

Presenter20:52

Let's have your next record.

Brian Eno20:55

Okay, this record is in some ways an example of what I've just been talking about, in that it's.

Brian Eno21:01

It's a long, very static piece, which is all to do with texture, I think.

Brian Eno21:06

It's the Bulgarian State Choir singing Herovimska Pesan.

Presenter22:11

The Bulgarian State Choir singing Herovimska Pesen.

Presenter22:15

Um you like that kind of quietness, as you were saying, don't you, Brian? Didn't you have an ambition, or do you have an ambition to open something called a quiet club? capital Q, capital C?

Brian Eno22:25

Mm-hmm.

Presenter22:25

Yeah.

Brian Eno22:25

Yeah, this was an idea too.

Brian Eno22:28

create an alternative kind of club, a club where you could go and talk to people, as opposed to all the clubs that I've ever been to, where you go and shout at people. It would be a place where you go to to listen to and look at things.

Brian Eno22:43

And it would be something uh somewhere on the intersection between a gallery and a theatre.

Brian Eno22:50

A a club as we know it, right?

Presenter22:52

So it would have your music in the background, this kind of soundscape of music, and then on the walls it would have your video art that you've got into, yes?

Brian Eno22:54

Discuss

Brian Eno23:00

That's right, yes.

Presenter23:01

Sort of moving paintings.

Brian Eno23:03

That's right.

Presenter23:04

How how did you come across all of that?

Brian Eno23:06

I started working with video in the late seventies. And I I started by I I'm always saying I'm trying to make paintings, yes, that's what I was doing with video as well. I started to use video as a way of making paintings.

Brian Eno23:19

So rather than as a way of making dramas or stories or all the things that are usually connected with video because of its background, its connections with theatre and film and so on,

Brian Eno23:30

I want to connect video with pictures and with picture making.

Brian Eno23:35

And I I I begun by making pieces that were very long, slow, slowly changing examinations of, for instance, a landscape or

Brian Eno23:44

In in my case, it was the skyscape of Manhattan, where I was living at the time.

Brian Eno23:49

It was a very interesting view of New York, because New York at street level is a very, very, very busy city.

Brian Eno23:57

But at sky level it's one of the most beautiful, grandest, and loveliest cities in the world. And it's it's actually a very slow city at sky level. It has a very big sky line, and you see these huge cumulus clouds dr drifting across very slowly. I used to watch and choose a continuous section.

Brian Eno24:16

That I liked. But I never edited within those sections.

Presenter24:20

And then you you you did other um videos like that and it all became um you had exhibitions of it, didn't you? Different moving pictures around a gallery.

Brian Eno24:29

Yes, I've had a lot of exhibitions of this work, mostly abroad, actually. I've had.

Brian Eno24:35

I guess about seventy odd exhibitions now. And the work developed away from being

Brian Eno24:42

figurative, in fact. I started using the television monitor and and other forms of light as well in in different ways. So now nowadays I'm making things that are more like sculptures, you might say, using light as well.

Presenter24:56

So, how did you feel when you began to achieve success with that kind of thing? I mean, did you find it a a natural progression in your life that suddenly

Presenter25:05

Eno, the rock musician who who couldn't play an instrument, had suddenly become Eno the artist, the innovator.

Brian Eno25:13

I'd been working with light and with visual things for a long time. It was it was at last I was able to tie these interests together again, music and and uh the visual side of what I did.

Brian Eno25:24

So for me it wasn't such a big

Brian Eno25:26

Conceptual leap. What surprised me was that people liked what I did. Did it surprise you?

Presenter25:30

Did it surprise you?

Brian Eno25:31

That always surprises me really.

Presenter25:33

Because it's a kind of self indulgence, really.

Brian Eno25:35

To be properly self-indulgent actually takes quite a lot of nerve.

Brian Eno25:40

To really be self-indulgent is to um admit to things about yourself that you might not otherwise

Brian Eno25:46

You might not always want to admit.

Presenter25:48

What is it then in yourself that you're admitting to?

Brian Eno25:51

Well, one of the things I often have to admit to is my own sentimentality.

Brian Eno25:56

It doesn't square well with my picture of myself as an experimental artist.

Brian Eno26:01

And

Brian Eno26:02

That's not the only picture I have of myself, but it's certainly one of them, and

Brian Eno26:06

Next to that there's a picture of me as a sentimental person who's moved by quite soppy things, like the Ray Conniff singers, for example, who I'm not including in this program.

Presenter26:17

Record number six.

Brian Eno26:20

Record number six has a rather a good theme for a desert island. It's a record called Too Much Time by Captain Beefheart.

Speaker 326:30

I got a too much time.

Speaker 326:34

Too much time.

Speaker 326:38

I got too much time to be with outlook.

Speaker 326:43

Too much time.

Speaker 326:47

I got up too much time.

Presenter26:51

Uh

Speaker 326:51

Ah I've been too miles.

Presenter26:53

It's time.

Presenter26:55

Captain Leefheart and Too Much Time. You've produced some highly successful albums in your time, Brian. I said at the beginning with David Bowie, and then of course with you too, you did Unforgettable Fire and Joshua Tree. And then late last year you released your own album with John Cale called Wrong Way Up on which you sing.

Speaker 327:15

Uh

Brian Eno27:15

The f

Presenter27:15

Were you saying earlier on you didn't like your voice much, or you think it's a bit thin?

Brian Eno27:15

Uh

Brian Eno27:19

Oh, I didn't say I didn't like it. I said I think it's a bit thin. That's different. I think it's a bit thin, and I like it.

Presenter27:26

So you don't mind revealing its thinness publicly?

Brian Eno27:28

No, I think that's an asset, you know. Not everybody has to be a tenor saxophone.

Presenter27:35

Yeah.

Brian Eno27:35

You like singing?

Brian Eno27:39

Do it to the distraction of everybody else around me, I think.

Presenter27:42

But you don't much care for lyrics, do you?

Brian Eno27:44

I'm not as interested in them as everyone else is.

Presenter27:46

But you won't use the words, I think, I or we. You don't want to

Presenter27:51

Come close, do you, in your lyrics, in your singing.

Brian Eno27:53

One good rule for writing lyrics I think I realized quite early on is that if you avoid the first person you start to get into interesting territory because so many so many songs are written in the first person singular and addressed to the second person singular. I love you.

Brian Eno28:11

Girl, I want to feel your body, those kind of songs, you know.

Brian Eno28:16

It just seemed that if you wanted to make an interesting territory, uh you wanted to touch somewhere that

Brian Eno28:22

Other lyrics had never touched, then you might do well to start by leaving out those ideas. That would mean that you were not in the territory of ninety six per cent. of extant pop songs.

Presenter28:33

But if you distance yourself in that way, then it's no wonder that that people don't spot that you're actually a a sentimental soul at heart.

Brian Eno28:41

I don't particularly mind whether people think I'm emotional or not, I must say. I don't have a lot of time for the conventional ideas about what constitutes passion or what constitute allowable emotions.

Presenter28:54

Are you married?

Presenter28:56

Children?

Presenter28:57

How old

Brian Eno28:59

I've got a

Brian Eno29:00

twenty three year old daughter and a one year old daughter.

Presenter29:04

And how much has the one year old changed your life and your attitudes?

Brian Eno29:08

She's changed my life a lot in the sense of

Brian Eno29:10

She's made my life feel a lot longer. Because I I notice now when I think about things, like I'm a gardener, I I

Brian Eno29:19

I'm planting things very often, and I'm thinking of her also when I'm planting them. I'm thinking

Brian Eno29:25

of sixty years or eighty years is

Brian Eno29:28

As the foreseeable future for this plant, rather than the, what have I got, 30 years or something left?

Presenter29:35

Record number seven.

Brian Eno29:38

Record number seven is a

Brian Eno29:40

Well, actually follows r on rather well from what I was saying about sentimentality. This is this is a lovely song by a Middle Eastern singer called Fairoux.

Brian Eno29:49

And it's called yataya means oh bird.

Speaker 330:20

Uh

Speaker 330:22

Ya tairu ahid ma'at la wunisja jar Maat fihilan fara widajar Bunturibiya nisam misa'abaritila hazarbaki vi dila fira it hidi.

Speaker 330:46

Yeah, that's it.

Presenter30:53

Fairoo's singing Yatoya. So what happens next in in this sort of dilettante professional existence that that you lead? Where do you go next? What do you trifle with next?

Brian Eno31:04

I'm doing a record at the moment which um

Brian Eno31:07

Explores at the moment, this week it explores an exciting new blend of.

Brian Eno31:12

Fusion and trash. It sounds like incoherent jazz made by industrial robots or something like that. This week, probably next week it will sound like um Ray Conniff singers.

Presenter31:24

But w when you sit on the desert island, I mean, have you any idea perhaps you have to wait to find out, but have you any idea what kind of music, what kind of soundscapes, to use your language, would be going through your head? Do you would you find it inspirational?

Brian Eno31:38

I don't think I would, because music for me is very much a a public event. I don't really consider any piece of music finished until I've released it. And releasing is

Brian Eno31:50

is setting the music free and

Brian Eno31:52

putting it into other people's ears, seeing what happens to it then.

Presenter31:56

So in that sense you would be entirely stunted um uh on the desert island. I mean, would you would you become suicidal?

Brian Eno32:04

Yes, in fact, I I did think that my luxury might be a pleasant way to commit suicide, but I changed that to an a lifetime supply of fascinating intoxicants,'cause I figured that could probably be the same thing.

Presenter32:17

but much more conventional.

Brian Eno32:19

But I changed it again actually.

Presenter32:21

Come on, what have you changed it to now then?

Brian Eno32:23

Well, then after that I thought some kind of a challenge might be nice to keep you on your toes, so I thought of a man-eating spider.

Brian Eno32:31

to make life interesting. But finally I settled on a radio telescope, because I thought on all those long nights I could watch the stars at night and probably pick up the World Service during the day.

Presenter32:42

Let's have record number eight.

Brian Eno32:44

The last record is a gospel song. I mean, uh gospel is, I suppose, the music I've listened to more than any other for the last few years. I particularly love the gospel style of singing, the way that um

Brian Eno32:56

The voice is liberated in this way of singing.

Brian Eno33:00

This is a song by the probably the most liberated of all gospel singers. Her name is Dorothy Love Coates, and the song is Lord Don't Forget About Me. Very appropriate for this context.

Speaker 333:12

Oh my god.

Speaker 333:14

How do we know?

Speaker 333:19

Times of good heavy and could do nothing but check it.

Speaker 333:25

God don't forget about

Speaker 333:28

Please feel

Speaker 333:31

Fuck.

Speaker 333:32

About me.

Speaker 333:34

Uh

Presenter33:40

Dorothy Love Coates, and Lord, don't forget about me.

Presenter33:44

You have to choose one of those eight records, Brian, as being the one that you really need to have with you more than any other.

Brian Eno33:50

I think it's Dorothy Love Coates, for sure.

Presenter33:53

And we've heard about your luxury, so what about the book? There's sitting the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare waiting for you on the beach.

Presenter34:00

What's the third one we can plonk on top of them?

Brian Eno34:02

This was very difficult choosing a book. I.

Brian Eno34:06

Vacillated for a while between Lolita, which is my favourite novel, I suppose, and

Brian Eno34:13

Uh the Grove Dictionary of Music, which is an absolutely infinite source of great stories and anecdotes and information about music and musical instruments.

Presenter34:22

But it's a reference book and you can't have it.

Brian Eno34:24

Oh, okay, I didn't know that. All right. Well, in that case, I anyway had decided not to have it, and instead I've decided to take the book that I have been reading for the last couple of years with

Brian Eno34:35

increasing interest and which doesn't seem to be running out on me, which is a book by a philosopher called Richard Rorty. It's called Contingency, Irony, and Solidarity.

Brian Eno34:45

It doesn't sound like a lot of fun, but it's a really good book.

Presenter34:49

I'll take your word for it. Brian Eno, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island death.

Brian Eno34:54

Thank you.

Speaker 235:02

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.