Brian Keenan

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 10:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen ninety, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:28

My Castaway this week is a man with a profound story to tell. Born in Northern Ireland forty years ago, he grew up to hate the sectarian divides in his country.

Presenter0:39

After a career as a community worker and an academic, he went to teach at a university in Beirut.

Presenter0:45

He arrived in the city in january nineteen eighty six. Four months later he was kidnapped by Islamic extremists.

Presenter0:53

In August this year, more than four years after he disappeared, he was released, and appeared before an astonished world, pale, gaunt, but still full of humour and optimism.

Presenter1:04

Held in appalling conditions, sometimes blindfolded and chained, sometimes beaten, his moment of freedom was one of the most joyous of nineteen ninety.

Presenter1:14

And this is his first Christmas at Liberty for five years. He is Brian Keenan.

Presenter1:20

Brian, I think most people will recall that you said on your release that you were going to visit all the countries in the world, drink all that drink and make love to all the women. So I I have to ask you, how are you doing so far?

Brian Keenan1:31

It's been the most unfortunate thing I ever said in my life.

Brian Keenan1:35

Because

Brian Keenan1:36

The consequence of making that statement has been that

Brian Keenan1:40

Any time I would like to ask a woman out for dinner

Brian Keenan1:43

Or to go to the theatre or something.

Brian Keenan1:46

They become very apprehensive about seeing with a man who's going to make love to all the women in the world.

Brian Keenan1:52

So it's mere my social life.

Brian Keenan1:56

extremely complicated and extremely difficult to pursue.

Presenter1:59

But th there's some other difficulty, isn't there, attached? Because what you really meant was you were going to enjoy yourself and quite rightly, and I think everybody understood the essence of what you meant. But of course.

Brian Keenan2:07

I'm gonna get

Presenter2:10

To enjoy yourself in the way that you meant, you have to be very relaxed and at peace with yourself, and presumably relaxation and peace are quite hard to come by when you've been through what you've been through.

Brian Keenan2:23

Extremely difficult. One

Brian Keenan2:27

Doesn't seem to have.

Brian Keenan2:28

The Tame, too.

Brian Keenan2:30

Faint are clear

Brian Keenan2:32

Be it a town, or a house, or a home, or even a place in the mind, where where one finds that peace.

Brian Keenan2:39

with themselves.

Brian Keenan2:41

'Cause that along with that peace always

Brian Keenan2:44

What is thrown back tea?

Brian Keenan2:46

Some of the bad things.

Presenter2:49

What about music, Brian? I mean, does music bring you any peace, or or did it when you were in captivity?

Brian Keenan2:56

We heard very little music, apart from time when we could

Brian Keenan3:00

crawled up near the door and

Brian Keenan3:02

Stick our ear under the door and listen.

Brian Keenan3:05

The man who kept us.

Brian Keenan3:06

were not musically inclined.

Brian Keenan3:09

Music within a fundamentalist faith.

Brian Keenan3:13

Is Haram Haram?

Brian Keenan3:16

It's forbidden.

Presenter3:17

So did did that mean that you couldn't make any music? I mean, could you not sing if you wanted to?

Brian Keenan3:23

Oh yes, I I'm an appallingly bad singer, but uh I love to sing. Singing was a kind of

Brian Keenan3:30

way of not only holding on to one's own sanity,

Brian Keenan3:33

Um

Brian Keenan3:35

and sometimes occasionally driving.

Brian Keenan3:37

John McCarthy, even more insane, as he tried to

Brian Keenan3:40

Listen to my very unmelodic.

Brian Keenan3:43

Uh singing.

Presenter3:44

Were there records that you just wished you had, or tunes you wished you could hear? Must have been.

Brian Keenan3:50

Oh, yeah, there there were there were many there were certainly more than eight.

Presenter3:54

But what are they, then, the age you've chosen? Are they ones that you would have wanted in your captivity? Or are they memories? Are they comfort? Or are they a stimulus? How have you chosen them?

Brian Keenan4:05

A kind of mix.

Brian Keenan4:07

tunes uh and music that that that I remember and found myself singing in part.

Brian Keenan4:16

And

Brian Keenan4:17

Alert

Brian Keenan4:18

pieces which for me as I as I look back

Brian Keenan4:22

I I kind of wished I had then.

Presenter4:25

So what's the first one?

Brian Keenan4:28

The first one's uh a piece by

Brian Keenan4:31

James Galway, a very well-known Belfast man. And I've chosen that because I I remembered when when I was first

Brian Keenan4:38

taken by these men and locked up on my own for a long period.

Brian Keenan4:43

At the desperate time, uh

Brian Keenan4:46

In those periods of darkness in a very tiny, filthy cell,

Brian Keenan4:52

The main sort of contorts.

Brian Keenan4:55

We live in a a heightened

Brian Keenan4:57

reality and I remember back to th having these sort of half awake hallucinations which always

Brian Keenan5:08

For some reason.

Brian Keenan5:10

It was always birds in it.

Brian Keenan5:13

I think back frequently to that time because

Brian Keenan5:16

Although it was god awful and I never, never want to go through it again.

Brian Keenan5:20

Another part of me desperately wants to go back to that.

Brian Keenan5:23

time when I was alone.

Brian Keenan5:25

Because it was

Brian Keenan5:27

Fascinating.

Brian Keenan5:29

It was awesome as much as it was awful.

Brian Keenan5:32

These

Brian Keenan5:34

Half awake hallucinations, these.

Brian Keenan5:37

birds in the mind. Um

Brian Keenan5:39

I remember this piece of music I heard, I don't know where.

Brian Keenan5:43

Playing

Brian Keenan5:44

Um

Brian Keenan5:46

That was the piece that came into my head as I tried to take all these weird and new symbols and things that were happening in my head.

Brian Keenan5:55

put some sort of shape and form to them so so that I could understand them and

Brian Keenan6:01

Keep my sanity and

Brian Keenan6:03

It was this piece by by Galway that that that that came

Brian Keenan6:07

to me and I remembered it and was very grateful that it was there.

Brian Keenan6:12

I'm not even heard it.

Brian Keenan6:14

and it expanded vastly.

Brian Keenan6:16

A tiny, tiny cell for me.

Presenter7:20

James Galway playing part of Bacchianus Brasileieris.

Presenter7:25

Do you still remember every detail of how you were kidnapped?

Brian Keenan7:29

So there are things that I remember very, very clearly.

Brian Keenan7:32

Well

Brian Keenan7:33

There are other things I now I only find myself

Brian Keenan7:37

Half remembrance

Brian Keenan7:39

as I try to come to a an accommodation with this.

Brian Keenan7:43

time, this this freedom.

Brian Keenan7:46

Which I would put in inverted colours. Um

Brian Keenan7:50

A whole new sense of stimulus to the mind, to the psyche.

Brian Keenan7:55

and things that that I want to remember.

Brian Keenan7:58

And thought I did remember are are drifting away.

Brian Keenan8:02

Like something in a fog and

Brian Keenan8:04

Sometimes I find myself reaching out to catch hold of it before it's gone completely.

Presenter8:10

But do you remember what you believed in those first few weeks of captivity? I mean, did you know instinctively that it was the beginning of a long sentence, or did you in fact fear some rather more immediate action?

Brian Keenan8:24

No, I

Brian Keenan8:26

I thought

Brian Keenan8:28

At the beginning they would keep me for a couple of weeks.

Presenter8:33

You were teaching English at the American University, we know, but why had you chosen to go there? Why Beirut, of all the universities in the world that you might have chosen?

Brian Keenan8:42

I saw myself as going for a year, perhaps two. I had a rough plan in my head then to go and spend some time in

Brian Keenan8:50

In Thailand.

Brian Keenan8:51

Maybe I just felt myself getting old and a time for change.

Presenter8:55

But your your family, your sisters, were quite worried about your going there in the first place, weren't they?

Brian Keenan9:00

Yeah, I

Brian Keenan9:02

I suppose I were. I I

Brian Keenan9:04

I'm the only son and therefore the only brother and

Brian Keenan9:08

I remember just before going there was quite a lot of news on the T V.

Brian Keenan9:12

The situation seems to be very, very, very bad.

Brian Keenan9:15

And they were.

Brian Keenan9:17

quite upset in the room way.

Brian Keenan9:19

But my family's always been very good to me. Uh they understood that uh if Brian wants to go, he's gonna go and there's no point in trying to talk him out of it because the more you try

Brian Keenan9:31

The more he'll decide he's going to go.

Presenter9:33

So he's he's quite a stubborn chap, Brown King.

Brian Keenan9:36

I suppose I am, but

Brian Keenan9:38

If one makes a decision to do something and then for whatever reasons may be talked out of it, maybe three years later you'll be sitting wondering, Why didn't I do that? I really wanted to go.

Presenter9:49

So in that sense

Presenter9:51

Strange question, but in that sense you have no regrets that you went.

Presenter9:55

That was what you intended.

Brian Keenan9:56

Yeah.

Brian Keenan9:57

None, uh no regrets whatsoever. I can't say I enjoyed it.

Brian Keenan10:01

Um

Brian Keenan10:03

I I remember

Brian Keenan10:05

Saying to someone uh

Brian Keenan10:07

Hook, you didn't recognize me actually.

Brian Keenan10:10

And they said um

Brian Keenan10:13

I haven't seen you for a few years, Brown. I said no.

Brian Keenan10:16

Uh haven't been around.

Brian Keenan10:19

Where where where were you?

Brian Keenan10:21

Oh, I was over on level.

Brian Keenan10:22

How were you? Did you see much of it?

Brian Keenan10:25

Well, I drove all round, but I didn't see very much of uh

Brian Keenan10:30

Um

Brian Keenan10:31

No, I don't regret it.

Brian Keenan10:32

I had an experience which very few of us will ever be fortunate or unfortunate to have.

Brian Keenan10:39

and in a strange way

Brian Keenan10:41

I kind of got more out of that experience then.

Brian Keenan10:45

Then perhaps I would have if I just stayed there for a year or two years teaching it.

Brian Keenan10:48

And moved on.

Presenter10:51

Shall we have your second record there? What's that?

Brian Keenan10:54

Well, i it's a a piece of traditional Irish music played by Derek Bell. It's written by a composer called Turlow or Caroline. It's played by the Chieftains, who I suppose now are the the classicists of Irish traditional music.

Brian Keenan11:13

I always did like traditional music.

Brian Keenan11:16

And this piece particularly.

Brian Keenan11:19

Marx, I suppose.

Brian Keenan11:21

a kind of deepening of of my interest in my own cultural background.

Presenter12:17

Derek Bell and the Chieftains playing Kean O'Hara.

Presenter12:21

We mentioned your stubbornness earlier on, which, I mean, presumably stood you in good stead in captivity. How stubborn were you with the people who held you, and did you argue with them?

Brian Keenan12:34

Hm, yes, uh

Brian Keenan12:37

I don't cease to be a human being because they put chains on my hand, put a blindfold on me.

Brian Keenan12:43

Leave me naked in a corner.

Brian Keenan12:45

Yes, I did.

Brian Keenan12:47

Because

Brian Keenan12:49

I think it's desperately dangerous for for people to

Brian Keenan12:53

Repress

Brian Keenan12:55

But they're hurt.

Brian Keenan12:56

Or the frustration.

Presenter12:56

Did it have any good effect? Did you evoke any remorse in them at all, or establish any kind of relationship with them as a result?

Brian Keenan13:06

Yeah, there wasn't a a relationship built up.

Brian Keenan13:09

Uh

Brian Keenan13:10

Not

Brian Keenan13:11

all of these men w were capable of of understanding.

Brian Keenan13:15

that relationship like that. Some of them have a

Brian Keenan13:18

A very limited

Brian Keenan13:19

Psychology.

Brian Keenan13:21

Some of them are.

Brian Keenan13:23

I'm deeply disturbed.

Brian Keenan13:25

and wood.

Brian Keenan13:26

in a mercurial instant.

Brian Keenan13:28

Turn.

Brian Keenan13:30

From

Brian Keenan13:31

being pleasant to being massively aggressive.

Brian Keenan13:36

I think maybe they were they they were afraid of

Brian Keenan13:39

of the friendship or the feeling that they may have been developing.

Presenter13:44

Let's have some more music.

Brian Keenan13:45

Oh, yes.

Brian Keenan13:47

It's a piece of music by

Brian Keenan13:50

Sonny Boy Williamson and The Animals. I remember these musicians very, very well.

Brian Keenan13:57

I can remember at one time walking up and down on the end of my chin.

Brian Keenan14:02

Singing

Brian Keenan14:03

One of the songs from the animals, the three or four or five lines that I remember.

Brian Keenan14:09

Babel

Brian Keenan14:11

play um musical instrument.

Brian Keenan14:13

But I love the harmonica.

Brian Keenan14:15

And I always t told myself I'm gonna play that harmonica like Sonny Boy Williams.

Brian Keenan14:21

I never have been able to.

Brian Keenan14:24

And I used to sit and put my hands up across my mouth when I

Brian Keenan14:29

looking at that grey concrete wall and pretend I was playing the harmonic and hum the tunes through my hands.

Brian Keenan14:36

Got really carried away, thought at one time I was a better harmonica player when I hadn't even got one than Sonny Boyd Williams.

Speaker 414:53

This girl was for homemade.

Speaker 414:58

I do believe my baby, my baby, know what it's all about.

Speaker 415:05

But I still don't know Uh

Presenter15:06

Panica

Speaker 415:07

Down

Presenter15:08

Uh what

Presenter15:09

Sunny Boy Williamson and the Animals with Pontiac Blues. You were alone for the first three and a half months of your captivity, you were saying.

Presenter15:18

Brian, how much did you get to eat?

Brian Keenan15:20

Not a lot. Uh

Brian Keenan15:22

Well it was a cup of tea.

Brian Keenan15:24

Black tea in the morning.

Brian Keenan15:26

from which you could count the number of tea leaves.

Brian Keenan15:29

And I suppose that varied each day for me'cause I could look at the the next cup of tea and say, Oh

Speaker 115:34

Uh

Brian Keenan15:35

Got sixty leaves today.

Brian Keenan15:37

Um

Brian Keenan15:38

And a piece of um Arabic bread and some processed cheese.

Brian Keenan15:44

and a spoonful of jam.

Brian Keenan15:47

I never liked Jam, never, ever, ever liked him.

Brian Keenan15:51

So I will never eat this jam.

Brian Keenan15:53

I really got sick of

Brian Keenan15:55

Herbic bread and processed cheese.

Brian Keenan15:58

And one day is it were.

Brian Keenan16:00

Thank go I'm gonna have to eat this channel.

Brian Keenan16:02

And I became a jamaholic, a new test, sweet.

Presenter16:08

What about clothes? Did you have anything to wear?

Brian Keenan16:10

They gave us a

Brian Keenan16:13

A pair of

Brian Keenan16:14

What I describe as Stanley Matthews.

Brian Keenan16:17

Shorts, you know loose.

Brian Keenan16:19

shorts that football bowlers used to wear years and years ago, which went right down below their very modest knees. Um they were they were always too big.

Brian Keenan16:28

And after washing them about twenty times the

Brian Keenan16:31

The elastic and the wheels ban went in your.

Brian Keenan16:35

Found

Brian Keenan16:36

Do exercises with your white shorts, falling down on your ankles.

Presenter16:40

You must in all of that time, and also the times when you were alone and blindfolded and just shut in in the blackness, I mean, you must have relived your life over and over again.

Presenter16:54

Did you remember things you'd forgotten you ever knew?

Brian Keenan16:54

Do you remember?

Brian Keenan16:59

Dinner.

Brian Keenan17:00

He'll be sitting.

Brian Keenan17:01

thinking about something, looking at the wall and

Brian Keenan17:06

Suddenly, from nowhere

Brian Keenan17:08

Something

Brian Keenan17:10

We just burst open.

Brian Keenan17:12

And the mind.

Brian Keenan17:15

Of an incident.

Brian Keenan17:17

or a memory, or a person.

Brian Keenan17:19

Or something fair.

Brian Keenan17:22

Which was so incredible.

Brian Keenan17:25

How did it get there?

Brian Keenan17:28

And

Brian Keenan17:29

Or was he more incredulous about it was

Brian Keenan17:33

The profound level at which you experienced that incident.

Brian Keenan17:39

Or that memory

Brian Keenan17:41

came so clear and such finite detail.

Brian Keenan17:46

You seem to understand one seem to understand.

Brian Keenan17:49

Much, much better.

Brian Keenan17:52

Much deeper.

Brian Keenan17:53

Than they have.

Brian Keenan17:55

When when the event happened.

Brian Keenan17:59

A strange

Brian Keenan18:01

Magical, fascinating.

Brian Keenan18:04

Things that that happened can

Presenter18:06

But how much did you fear that eventually you would run out of things like that to grab a hold of in your mind? You run out of places to go in your head?

Brian Keenan18:21

that I would wake up one morning and

Brian Keenan18:24

I find myself empty.

Brian Keenan18:26

And there will be nothing more there.

Brian Keenan18:29

hoped against hope that that would never happen.

Brian Keenan18:33

And it never did.

Presenter18:35

Shall we have record number four?

Brian Keenan18:37

Yes, it's from Julie Mitchell.

Brian Keenan18:39

Of her album Blue.

Brian Keenan18:43

I was working in Brussels when I first heard this L P.

Brian Keenan18:47

Takes me back to that first, I suppose.

Brian Keenan18:50

Mature or adult.

Brian Keenan18:52

love that I have for someone else.

Speaker 418:57

Oh but you are, in my blood, you're my holy wine, you're so bitter.

Speaker 419:06

It runs so sweet, oh I could bring

Speaker 419:10

Kiss all of you.

Speaker 419:16

Still light beyond my feet, I would steal

Presenter19:22

Be a m Joni Mitchell and A Case of You.

Presenter19:29

You must run on on occasions um have contemplated death, um you know, that they might suddenly decide to shoot you or

Presenter19:37

beat you until you couldn't take any more. Did you allow those kinds of thoughts in?

Brian Keenan19:43

Go.

Brian Keenan19:44

I wouldn't have said this five years ago or six years ago.

Brian Keenan19:48

But I firmly believe it now that

Brian Keenan19:51

There is so much more in us.

Brian Keenan19:54

and that we can find in ourselves.

Brian Keenan19:56

Quality of strength more than strength itself.

Presenter19:59

What about God?

Brian Keenan20:01

Oh, I don't know.

Brian Keenan20:03

How about that abstract?

Presenter20:05

But did you pray?

Brian Keenan20:06

Yes, of course I prayed.

Brian Keenan20:09

Prayer became, I suppose, a kind of way of analysing the depths of one's need.

Brian Keenan20:20

And I didn't have anyone else to talk to.

Presenter20:23

But do you pray now I mean, you prayed then, do you pray now for the men, the other hostages that you had to leave behind?

Brian Keenan20:29

If one considers prayer as an asking for no

Brian Keenan20:35

I don't

Brian Keenan20:36

And that sense?

Brian Keenan20:38

But I frequently find myself

Brian Keenan20:40

in a way trying to, you know, get back.

Brian Keenan20:45

T.

Brian Keenan20:46

Um

Brian Keenan20:49

If uh if there was a way of sending a message.

Brian Keenan20:52

It's a kind of prayer, I suppose.

Presenter20:54

You had to leave, um, I think we know, without saying goodbye, didn't you? Without saying goodbye to John McCarthy, whom you've been with for so long.

Presenter21:02

That that must be heartbreaking. Do you think

Presenter21:05

that he will know that you were released?

Brian Keenan21:09

Yes, I I'm I'm sure he will.

Presenter21:12

And will he know that you're out here fighting for him?

Brian Keenan21:15

Yeah.

Brian Keenan21:16

Question

Brian Keenan21:18

talked a lot about what would happen. Uh we both kind of knew

Brian Keenan21:23

or accepted that.

Brian Keenan21:25

We would go separately.

Brian Keenan21:27

He would go first.

Brian Keenan21:28

We didn't know.

Brian Keenan21:29

So we have

Brian Keenan21:31

Mere enough.

Brian Keenan21:32

Swapped our contingency plans on

Brian Keenan21:36

Who should do what?

Brian Keenan21:37

If one went before the other.

Brian Keenan21:40

So he will know.

Presenter21:41

Let's have some more music.

Brian Keenan21:43

Yes, I am.

Brian Keenan21:45

It's it's a piece of uh of music by.

Brian Keenan21:48

By Paul Brady called the Island.

Brian Keenan21:51

Which makes mention.

Brian Keenan21:54

of Lebanon.

Brian Keenan21:56

Paul Brady's Career.

Brian Keenan21:59

And and ultimately what what he's doing now is a fine testament to taking hold of the talents that are in yourself uh and going it on your own.

Speaker 422:09

They say the skies are level burning

Speaker 122:11

Yeah.

Speaker 422:15

Those mighty cedars beating in the heat

Speaker 422:21

That's true.

Speaker 422:22

Pictures on television.

Speaker 422:26

Women and children dying in the street.

Speaker 422:34

Uh

Presenter22:34

But we still had it in our own

Presenter22:37

Paul Brady and the Island.

Presenter22:40

Physically, Brian, you look much better than you did when you came out in August. You've put on weight and...

Presenter22:45

Filled out all over. How are the teeth?

Brian Keenan22:48

Oh, uh I still have problems uh w with the teeth.

Brian Keenan22:54

We we too infrequently had.

Brian Keenan22:59

uh a toothbrush or or else we had a toothbrush for so long it became useless to us.

Brian Keenan23:05

So I'm still

Brian Keenan23:06

Having to go back to the dentist.

Brian Keenan23:10

A wonderful man, who's doing a really great job.

Presenter23:13

And now you're a smoker, which you weren't before.

Brian Keenan23:16

The cigarettes

Brian Keenan23:17

were were important uh at the beginning.

Brian Keenan23:20

It was something you could do when you wanted, as you wanted.

Brian Keenan23:25

And it was the only thing.

Brian Keenan23:26

That you could do when you wanted.

Brian Keenan23:29

And how you want it

Brian Keenan23:31

How do you ever

Brian Keenan23:33

I was only smoking two.

Brian Keenan23:35

and sort of stashing the LF three in case we didn't there were some days when we didn't get any, so so we always h had a stock of cigarettes.

Brian Keenan23:46

And I came out quite convinced.

Brian Keenan23:48

But that that that that I I wouldn't

Brian Keenan23:51

Smoke?

Brian Keenan23:52

However, for some strange reason, I now find myself.

Brian Keenan23:57

Smoking all the cigarettes I didn't smoke.

Brian Keenan24:00

Whenever he's locked up.

Presenter24:01

Let's have some more music.

Brian Keenan24:02

Oh, right, this this is uh

Brian Keenan24:05

From a man extremely well known in my home city, a superb musician.

Brian Keenan24:10

Well known back home as Van the Man.

Brian Keenan24:13

Prevent Morrison.

Brian Keenan24:15

He went to the same school as I did. He even used to clean my mother's windows.

Brian Keenan24:19

I l love his music, it takes me back to the best of of my art lessons.

Brian Keenan24:25

Can I choose?

Brian Keenan24:27

dweller on the threshold, because even in those moments, in the dark,

Brian Keenan24:32

An aloom.

Brian Keenan24:34

when things were happening.

Brian Keenan24:37

To the mind and merry to the soul.

Brian Keenan24:40

One felt like

Brian Keenan24:42

a kind of dweller on the threshold of something.

Brian Keenan24:45

Oh, what that was.

Brian Keenan24:48

It'll take me a long time to understand that.

Speaker 424:54

Well our own threshold

Speaker 424:58

And I'm waiting at the door

Speaker 425:03

And I'm standing in the darkness

Speaker 425:08

I don't want to aim no more

Speaker 425:12

I've seen the fabric

Speaker 425:17

I feel

Presenter25:19

Man Uh

Presenter25:20

Van Morrison and Dweller on the Threshold.

Presenter25:23

There has to be a positive side to your experience, Brian, and and surely that is that that that now

Presenter25:29

You begin on the second half of your life in freedom, and in that you have the the respect and sometimes the adulation of a tremendous number of people. They want to hear what you have to say and they probably follow you a long way.

Presenter25:42

Is there any way in which you can put that power to some kind of good and positive effect? Have you thought about that?

Brian Keenan25:52

They took me away and they locked me up and it was such a shock.

Brian Keenan25:56

And then they let me go and

Brian Keenan25:58

I'm a public fighter or something, and that's even more shocking and frightening.

Brian Keenan26:02

Soon many people would

Brian Keenan26:05

In the most affectionate way will stop you in the street, shake hands and say welcome home.

Brian Keenan26:11

And then

Brian Keenan26:13

Fail.

Brian Keenan26:14

talk about something I said and how high moves they were and

Brian Keenan26:17

How important it was for them or how important it was

Brian Keenan26:22

for so many people and

Brian Keenan26:25

That ki kinda frightens me, because I am not

Brian Keenan26:28

I know a saint. Oh, uh

Presenter26:31

But I suppose people begin to think that someone like you could uh

Presenter26:36

be become some kind of leader of men in this divided country.

Brian Keenan26:41

I don't know that I've got the courage to be a leader. There's certain things.

Brian Keenan26:47

But I have first to give back.

Brian Keenan26:49

and to repossess again.

Brian Keenan26:52

I understand.

Brian Keenan26:54

In freedom, as I understood them, in captivity.

Brian Keenan26:57

Before I could.

Brian Keenan26:59

Choose to do anything else.

Presenter27:02

Record number seven.

Brian Keenan27:04

Oh yeah. This is uh

Brian Keenan27:06

The taken from the soundtrack to A Play.

Brian Keenan27:10

By John Millington Singh.

Brian Keenan27:12

The Playboy of the Western World.

Brian Keenan27:15

I chose the soundtrack because it's by Shawn O'Reda, who for me stands as the second great

Brian Keenan27:23

composer in the Irish canon.

Brian Keenan27:26

the the piece of music. It sort of

Brian Keenan27:29

presents us this place wherein lie the west of Ireland, with a tumour.

Brian Keenan27:33

It's tragedy.

Brian Keenan27:35

It's with its melodrama.

Brian Keenan27:38

And the music itself exactly captures the type and the quality of life that was lived in this island, in this part of the island, so many years ago.

Presenter28:15

Part of Shauna Rieta's music from the film of Playboy of the Western World.

Presenter28:20

So, Brian, here you are, as I said at the beginning, enjoying your first Christmas at Liberty for five years. When you were in captivity, did you know it was when it was Christmas?

Brian Keenan28:30

Yeah, we kept a very close track on time, so we kind of knew when it was Christmas.

Brian Keenan28:36

Some Christmases they brought us in

Brian Keenan28:40

A piece of cake.

Brian Keenan28:41

Maybe some coke.

Brian Keenan28:43

Alright, so I'm not.

Brian Keenan28:45

and sang.

Brian Keenan28:47

Happy birthday, Isa, happy birthday, Isa.

Brian Keenan28:51

Isa being the Arabic name for for Jesus.

Brian Keenan28:56

At first it was it was quite touching.

Brian Keenan28:59

But after that became

Brian Keenan29:01

thoroughly boring because Christmas to us was was not anything was just another

Brian Keenan29:08

Day and a long monotony.

Presenter29:11

But it must also have been a of a day, perhaps even of

Presenter29:14

of increased sorrow actually.

Brian Keenan29:18

Sure, it was the day when we thought.

Brian Keenan29:20

Always.

Brian Keenan29:23

our our our families would what they would be doing.

Presenter29:27

So inevitably, you know, right now, your thoughts must be with uh those men that you left behind, John McCarthy and of course uh Tavia Waite.

Presenter29:38

What do you think of as you think about them now at Christmas? Is there a a kind of Christmas thought in your head, not just for them, I suppose, but for all the other innocent hostages across the world?

Brian Keenan29:51

We think

Brian Keenan29:53

Maybe even for those who are being held.

Brian Keenan29:57

The message would be there is no giving up.

Brian Keenan30:01

R is able to say in Belfast.

Brian Keenan30:03

There is no surrender.

Brian Keenan30:06

Ah

Brian Keenan30:08

I firmly believe there is always an end.

Brian Keenan30:14

Uh uh and the beginning.

Brian Keenan30:16

Maybe there's a purpose in all things.

Brian Keenan30:19

I remember one guard saying to me when I was getting angry about something.

Brian Keenan30:24

Fang.

Brian Keenan30:26

Why are you angry?

Brian Keenan30:29

And I would hold up the tear.

Brian Keenan30:32

Let's say for me.

Brian Keenan30:35

God is testing you.

Brian Keenan30:38

And I wasn't very happy about that as an excuse.

Brian Keenan30:43

But maybe.

Brian Keenan30:45

I don't know. I often think about it since I've got eye

Brian Keenan30:49

It certainly was a testing.

Brian Keenan30:52

But I think all those things

Brian Keenan30:54

eventually come to an end.

Brian Keenan30:56

If we choose to make it so

Brian Keenan30:58

and choose to believe that it will be so.

Speaker 131:03

You'll ask me.

Brian Keenan31:05

Well, the last record is.

Brian Keenan31:09

Another one by Sean O'Reader, it's.

Brian Keenan31:12

The Mass, a Catholic Mass, sang in Irish.

Brian Keenan31:16

Um

Brian Keenan31:17

I remember.

Brian Keenan31:19

when I was in that first place.

Brian Keenan31:22

There was an air.

Brian Keenan31:23

vent conditioner.

Brian Keenan31:27

and it hummed amid this noise.

Brian Keenan31:30

It was the only noise in the cell after they had left the food and gone away.

Brian Keenan31:36

And for some strange reason

Brian Keenan31:39

Humming noise.

Brian Keenan31:42

and that long period of isolation translated itself

Brian Keenan31:47

And to all the music I've.

Brian Keenan31:50

Everload.

Brian Keenan31:51

All the music I had forgotten I loved.

Brian Keenan31:54

all the music I wanted to have.

Brian Keenan31:58

I heard the yulian pipes.

Brian Keenan32:01

I heard Native African chants.

Brian Keenan32:05

I heard.

Brian Keenan32:06

All sorts of strange music.

Brian Keenan32:09

I heard a Gregorian champ.

Brian Keenan32:11

All simultaneously come through this.

Brian Keenan32:15

And I said wow.

Brian Keenan32:17

You never had a record player around, but you are definitely going crazy now.

Brian Keenan32:22

But it was there and I heard it.

Brian Keenan32:25

And it fascinated me and then it frightened me because it just kept playing all this music.

Brian Keenan32:31

It was buried in me somewhere and I heard it.

Brian Keenan32:35

And they thought, wow

Brian Keenan32:38

And I suppose I think back to that.

Brian Keenan32:41

Music coming through that air van.

Brian Keenan32:44

Music created in my own head.

Brian Keenan32:47

Um

Brian Keenan32:48

Given that it's Christmas.

Brian Keenan32:52

It's a mass and I'm not religious. It was one of those that that came back to me through that air vent.

Speaker 433:05

His time longers for ship.

Speaker 133:06

They are longer songs.

Speaker 433:12

It is simple, rainful. Well I hear a dear song.

Speaker 133:19

La dear love

Speaker 433:24

Find my son on the board.

Speaker 433:31

Hosanna's heart.

Speaker 133:31

Was that very

Speaker 433:36

It is found in Ontario in London, Ontario.

Speaker 433:43

Oh Zionist Maharaj.

Presenter33:50

Sean O'Rearder's Catholic Mass, sung by the choir of Saint Mary's Church in Cooley, County Cork.

Presenter33:57

Well, Brian, you have to choose one of those eight records that would be more important to you than any of the others.

Brian Keenan34:04

Because

Brian Keenan34:06

I put John McCarthy's head away, singing bits and snatches.

Brian Keenan34:10

or Van Morrison because I knew more about

Brian Keenan34:13

half of his songs and

Brian Keenan34:16

I guess I I guess I would stick with

Brian Keenan34:19

Dweller on the threshold.

Presenter34:21

And if you had had the what would have been for you the incredible luxury of of the complete works of Shakespeare in your captivity, and indeed a Bible.

Presenter34:30

What one other book would you have chosen? What one other book would you like to have had?

Brian Keenan34:36

That will be a toss-up.

Brian Keenan34:37

The Complete Works of W. B. Yeats are a book which I am finding very difficult to get.

Brian Keenan34:43

It's a book on the music and the life.

Brian Keenan34:45

Of one of our composers today, Turlo Carolyn.

Brian Keenan34:51

Between W. B. Yates and Turlow Carolyn's book, I would find it very hard to choose, I would accept gratefully any one of those.

Presenter34:59

Mm-hmm.

Presenter35:00

And and a luxury. I mean, was there was there anything in those four and a half years that you really

Presenter35:06

craved for.

Brian Keenan35:08

The one thing I did crave.

Brian Keenan35:10

and it was driving me to distraction, and they would not give me.

Brian Keenan35:15

It was a pencil.

Brian Keenan35:16

I like R.

Brian Keenan35:18

And I just wanted to fill those walls that I looked at for so long.

Brian Keenan35:22

Or something.

Brian Keenan35:25

And just a pencil can take you so far.

Brian Keenan35:28

Away from that place.

Brian Keenan35:31

I would just

Brian Keenan35:33

Crave a pencil.

Presenter35:36

Brian Keenan, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island discs and happy Christmas to you.

Brian Keenan35:42

Thank you very much.

Speaker 135:51

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.