Baroness Trumpington

Speaker 20:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 20:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen ninety, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:30

My castaway this week is a political peer. She's never taken an examination in her life, preferring the test of high office. Here she's passed with flying colours, starting off as a mayor of Cambridge and graduating to Government Whip and now enjoying ministerial rank.

Presenter0:46

A tireless campaigner, she's shown herself unafraid of controversy. She champions Sunday trading, advocated the use of Falkland sheep as mine detectors, and pioneered explicit advertising in the AIDS campaign. She brings to it all a formidable presence and a robust sense of humour. For the past ten years she's rejoiced in the title of Baroness Trumpington of Sandwich in the County of Kent. It's a wonderful title, Lady Trumpington, but there is no Trumpington in Sandwich, or indeed in the County of Kent, is there?

Baroness Trumpington1:15

Perfectly right. But the uh thing was, really, I the Trumpington part came because I wanted to

Baroness Trumpington1:22

Thank show how grateful I was to Trumpington.

Baroness Trumpington1:26

who'd kind of nurtured me.

Baroness Trumpington1:28

for about twenty years and uh where I'd lived and I'd represented them first on the City Council, then on the County Council. In Cambridge. In Cambridge. And then I'd always lived in or near Sandwich and I still do.

Presenter1:44

But you could have chosen you could have cho used your married name, couldn't you? You could have been plain old Lady Barker.

Baroness Trumpington1:49

But that's exactly w the way it would have come out. And the Barker boys, my husband and son, uh we had a great con family conference and they decided really that they thought Trumpington was uh was rather a suitable title. Uh

Presenter2:05

In what ways suit women? I mean, is it because it's it's a it's quite a laughable name in a way, if I may say.

Baroness Trumpington2:09

But it's a place, and it's a place I love very much, and it is better than Six Mile Bottom, which some of my friends suggested that I should take as a title.

Presenter2:18

Well, patently, you enjoy your title and all that it's brought you. You enjoy the Lords, don't you, enjoy the Lord?

Baroness Trumpington2:24

Oh, I love it. It's a very kind place and it's been awfully good to me. It really has. It's a wonderful atmosphere.

Baroness Trumpington2:32

You are, after all, mixing with

Baroness Trumpington2:35

World experts on a great many subjects, and so you've really got to be.

Baroness Trumpington2:40

Very careful before you speak, otherwise you'll be shot down in an elegant way. But it can sound quite vicious, again in a fairly elegant way.

Baroness Trumpington2:50

But uh you've got to know your stuff. That's the most important thing on the floor of the house.

Baroness Trumpington2:56

What happens outside the chamber is pure friendship and a lot of fun.

Presenter3:03

Well now, dismissal to a desert island. Any attractions for you in that at all?

Baroness Trumpington3:08

Ghastly. I really can't think of anything worse. I'm very lazy by nature, and I've always managed to find people somehow or other.

Baroness Trumpington3:17

Who and or who

Baroness Trumpington3:20

did things.

Baroness Trumpington3:21

And for a very large person, it's remarkable how helpless I can be if I can find somebody to do something for me. But.

Baroness Trumpington3:29

At the same time, I think I suppose I've accepted.

Baroness Trumpington3:33

Jobs as they've come along, just to find out if I could do it, so it'd be quite interesting to find that if I could exist.

Presenter3:40

And what about music? How important is it to you? Will it

Presenter3:43

help you at all.

Baroness Trumpington3:44

Yeah, I think it could make me even more depressed, and that's some of the my choices are to sort of buck me up and uh

Baroness Trumpington3:52

make me feel happy and remember very happy times. What's the first one? Well, the first one goes right back to my childhood. It's Yvonne Prenton singing I'll Follow My Secret Heart.

Baroness Trumpington4:05

And it takes me back to

Baroness Trumpington4:07

The last night before I went back to horrible school, when my father would always take me to the theatre and then on to supper afterwards, either at the Savoy or the Dorchester, which I think he enjoyed probably more than I did, because there were the most gorgeous folly girls in the cabaret then. But it was always a very big night in my life.

Baroness Trumpington4:29

And going to see conversation piece and then going behind.

Baroness Trumpington4:35

The stage afterwards and meeting Yvonne Brenton was at the age of eleven. You can imagine what a thrill it was. Beautiful music, too.

Speaker 34:45

I see all my Lord.

Speaker 34:53

I look forward to the music.

Speaker 34:57

Finally the water

Speaker 35:11

Uh

Speaker 35:12

Uh

Speaker 35:13

Some of these brighter populations.

Baroness Trumpington5:43

You must say that I mean, I honestly think she had one of the prettiest voices that ever happened.

Baroness Trumpington5:48

Enchanting.

Presenter5:49

Very pretty Yvonne Pranton singing I'll Follow My Secret Heart.

Presenter5:54

You were born Jean Campbell Harris into a really quite well, obviously, from the story you've just told us about going to see such shows, a rather glamorous family, yes.

Baroness Trumpington6:03

A a very odd family. My mother was born of American parents who had

Baroness Trumpington6:09

And she had two passports till she was twenty one,'cause they lived in London.

Baroness Trumpington6:13

She opted to be English, but all my mother's relations are

Baroness Trumpington6:17

In America

Baroness Trumpington6:18

She untilda slump in 29-30 was very rich. They were they were paint manufacturers.

Baroness Trumpington6:25

And my father, um, was a soldier. When they

Baroness Trumpington6:29

Got married.

Baroness Trumpington6:30

He left the army and went into uh

Baroness Trumpington6:34

The Family Business

Baroness Trumpington6:36

And then they lost absolutely everything.

Baroness Trumpington6:38

But we went on living in a very curious way, the same way we'd live.

Baroness Trumpington6:43

And one never quite knew whether one was in the money or out of the money. But my mother had a very strong character, and she became a an interior decorator. So I've always been surrounded by beautiful things.

Presenter6:56

But but how poor were you? I mean, did you still keep the nannies and the servants or they had vanished?

Baroness Trumpington7:00

Yeah.

Baroness Trumpington7:02

It's rather like the boy at Eton who he said My family are very, very poor. Our butler is even poorer. Um it was slightly like that.

Presenter7:12

Didn't you once say that your mother's idea of being poor was going to the Ritz on a bus?

Baroness Trumpington7:15

Exactly. Exactly.

Presenter7:17

So what were you like in in the middle of all this? Were you quite a a headstrong girl?

Baroness Trumpington7:22

Well, I was the eldest of three. I had two brothers, David and Alastair. David, alas, is now dead, but I'm

Baroness Trumpington7:28

Simply devoted to my other brother Alistair, we were very close.

Baroness Trumpington7:33

And it's rather sad, really, that the war

Baroness Trumpington7:36

Well, one was all three of us were at, um

Baroness Trumpington7:40

in my boarding schools. And then when the war came, my brother David was sent to America.

Baroness Trumpington7:44

My brother Alistair was at Dartmouth.

Baroness Trumpington7:47

And

Baroness Trumpington7:48

They didn't quite know what to do with me, so they sent me off to

Baroness Trumpington7:52

Lloyd George, who was a great family friend.

Baroness Trumpington7:55

be a lamb girl, because I was the wrong sort of age. I was sixteen and a half, coming getting going on seventeen.

Baroness Trumpington8:02

but too young to join up and our house was taken over.

Speaker 28:04

Yeah.

Baroness Trumpington8:06

By the military.

Baroness Trumpington8:07

So there was no home.

Baroness Trumpington8:09

And

Baroness Trumpington8:10

In a way, that was the end of family life.

Presenter8:12

So you were quite a tomboy, you were saying. And and you took up smoking at an early age, I think, didn't you?

Baroness Trumpington8:17

Yes, regretfully, at the age of about ten or eleven, uh my brothers and I used to go down to the village shop and buy ten.

Baroness Trumpington8:25

Flares f for our uncle, of course.

Baroness Trumpington8:28

And then we'd smite them in the pigstyes.

Baroness Trumpington8:31

And I'm afraid I've gone on. Really, it's fairly recent that the evils of cigarette smoking

Baroness Trumpington8:37

have become only too plain, and I realize I'm nothing but a drug addict, but I am afraid that I'm hooked.

Presenter8:45

Have you never felt the pressure? I mean, you worked at the Department of Health, didn't you? The DHSS as it was. I mean, did you not feel the pressure there to give up?

Baroness Trumpington8:49

The HSS was.

Baroness Trumpington8:54

I know it's terrible, I really do, and it's one of those things where don't do as I do, do as I say.

Presenter9:01

You you're no stranger, of course, to self-discipline, because didn't your mother put you on endless diets when you were little?

Baroness Trumpington9:06

Endless. Absolutely endless.

Presenter9:08

That didn't work either.

Baroness Trumpington9:09

Well it did.

Baroness Trumpington9:11

But then, uh in my ripe old age, I rather think what the hell. Uh

Baroness Trumpington9:19

There are many pleasures left to one in life, and food is certainly one of them.

Presenter9:23

Well said. Shall we have record number two?

Baroness Trumpington9:27

Cheek to cheek really sort of embodies all one sort of teenage life.

Baroness Trumpington9:33

And it's a magical tune, and those Fred Ostar films were wonderful.

Baroness Trumpington9:39

And, you know, one thought of oneself always as Ginger Rogers at that sort of age.

Speaker 39:44

Yeah.

Speaker 39:46

I'm in heaven.

Speaker 39:49

And my heart beats so that I can hardly speak.

Baroness Trumpington9:51

Uh

Speaker 39:56

And I seem to find the happiness lies

Baroness Trumpington9:59

Bye.

Speaker 310:02

When we're all together dancing cheek to cheek

Presenter10:08

Fred a stare, cheek to cheek. So when you weren't wanting to be Ginger Rogers when you were young, what else did you dream of becoming?

Baroness Trumpington10:15

I thought I would like to be a vet.

Baroness Trumpington10:17

I thought I'd like to be a vet in in the daytime and a ballet dancer at night.

Baroness Trumpington10:22

Uh but uh neither happened.

Presenter10:25

But have you seriously never taken an exam in your life?

Baroness Trumpington10:28

I've never even taken a driving test.

Presenter10:30

How have you managed to avoid these things? It's not happened to anyone else I've ever heard of.

Baroness Trumpington10:35

It uh I mean, well, I left school, as I said, when I was fifteen and that was really before any sort of serious exams uh took place.

Baroness Trumpington10:44

And

Baroness Trumpington10:45

I probably would have passed okay in the things I liked.

Baroness Trumpington10:50

But I did slightly go on the basis that it was better to get naught out of a hundred, which showed

Baroness Trumpington10:55

that you haven't tried, rather than fifteen out of a hundred would show that you've tried and failed, and that applied to anything mathematical.

Presenter11:04

Well, now, did politics play any it must have played a part in your early life, because wh wh what are we talking about? We're talking about the twenties and the early thirties. You're almost bound to have been politically aware.

Baroness Trumpington11:14

Well, I I was very lucky because my parents had a lot of political friends. Politics was part of the conversation.

Baroness Trumpington11:22

And so I grew up.

Baroness Trumpington11:24

politically aware, but they were liberals.

Presenter11:28

Staunch Liberal. So you said they knew they knew Lloyd George.

Baroness Trumpington11:29

Well, my grandmother was great friends with the Lloyd George family and uh we were all sort of brought up together, the grandchildren and us. They used to come and stay a lot with us.

Presenter11:41

And you say you went to be a land girl for him in during the war. What did what did you have to do for him?

Baroness Trumpington11:45

Pick apples and pack apples

Baroness Trumpington11:48

I did that for a year, and then I took a secretarial course.

Baroness Trumpington11:51

And uh then I went to Bletchley.

Baroness Trumpington11:54

To do what? To do to work on uh I my official title was Cypher Clerk.

Baroness Trumpington12:01

And uh we've all worked on

Baroness Trumpington12:04

German naval codes. It was very funny when I got married and went to live in Cambridge that

Baroness Trumpington12:10

sort of very learned dons would take one look at me and say, Not you and scurry down the street, because we were a lot of children, in a way, at Bletchley, and when we weren't working very hard we were being extremely naughty.

Presenter12:24

In what way?

Baroness Trumpington12:26

very childish on night shift. Um

Baroness Trumpington12:29

Such a whole lot of ridiculous things, you know, sending out false notices, um

Baroness Trumpington12:36

In future all female wear personnel will wear hats to work and quite idiotic things will be all turned up in tea cozies and

Baroness Trumpington12:44

All kinds of odd things. I mean, it was very childish. Did you know that? Everyone rushed up to London.

Presenter12:47

Did you have a

Baroness Trumpington12:49

Uh and danced all night and caught the milk train back, and then worked all day.

Presenter12:54

I was going to say, did you ever come out? I mean, were you a dead?

Baroness Trumpington12:57

Well, there wasn't really any sort of coming out, but the Queen Charlotte's ball went on still gallantly through the blitz, and I can remember all my mother's clothing coupons going on a dress.

Baroness Trumpington13:10

And um

Baroness Trumpington13:12

I went to it and I skipped off with a young man to go to the Cafe de Paris from there. Couldn't get there because it had been bombed. Sorry if I had been half an hour earlier.

Baroness Trumpington13:23

I might have been in that dreadful

Baroness Trumpington13:26

Dreadful happening.

Presenter13:28

Record number three.

Baroness Trumpington13:31

That is really um embodies the sort of uh Fletchley time Chattanooga Choochoo and Glenn Miller.

Baroness Trumpington13:38

And uh one of the things we used to do on night shift was sort of do our party pieces, and I'm ashamed to say that was mine.

Presenter13:45

But in your tea case.

Baroness Trumpington13:46

In my tea crazy.

Speaker 313:48

You leave the Pennsylvania station about a quarter to four Read a magazine and then you're in Baltimore Dinner in the diner, nothing could be finer than to have your hem and eggs in Carolina

Speaker 314:03

When you hear the whistle blowing eight to the bar, then you know that Tennessee is not very far.

Speaker 314:09

Shamalala calling, gotta keep it rollin'!

Speaker 314:14

Chat Nuga, there you are!

Speaker 314:19

There's gonna be

Speaker 314:21

A certain party at the station

Speaker 314:25

Batman Lane

Speaker 314:28

I used to call Bunny Bay.

Speaker 314:33

She's gonna cry until I tell her that I'll never roll

Speaker 314:38

Lord Catu Choo, won't you choo-choo be home?

Baroness Trumpington14:43

You know, it was funny. Uh, I was in Washington waiting for a

Baroness Trumpington14:48

Trade last year. And I have no idea that they actually did. I can't do it, but that

Baroness Trumpington14:53

The voice would come through all abod

Baroness Trumpington14:56

And a really long drawn-out southern wave is absolutely great.

Presenter15:00

I can see that the just new

Baroness Trumpington15:00

It's almost like prancing down the platform singing it.

Presenter15:03

The Tattanooka Choo Choo is going to be making his way round the island, there's little doubt.

Baroness Trumpington15:05

There's a little double.

Presenter15:06

Noisily, I'm

Baroness Trumpington15:08

Yes.

Presenter15:09

So how is it, Lady Trumpington, that born of this staunchly Liberal family, that when you came to practise politics yourself it was as a Tory?

Baroness Trumpington15:17

Ah, because I had Tory friends.

Baroness Trumpington15:21

and Tory friends in Parliament, Tory friends who were candidates. This is at the end of the war, really. And at the uh quite frankly, one didn't think particularly politically during the war, at least I didn't. One was thinking of getting on with the war and winning it, sort of that was one's conversation.

Baroness Trumpington15:41

But

Baroness Trumpington15:42

Of course the forty-five election brought the whole thing to life.

Baroness Trumpington15:46

And I that was my first sort of active uh actor of uh

Baroness Trumpington15:51

politics was to go canvassing in Fulham, actually, for a friend of mine.

Baroness Trumpington15:55

And that was quite a revelation.

Baroness Trumpington15:58

And I learnt quite a few tricks of the trade, but people were very.

Baroness Trumpington16:04

Unanxious to open their doors to you in poorer areas of Fulham.

Baroness Trumpington16:10

So you said, I'm terribly hot. Could I have a glass of water? and you got in.

Baroness Trumpington16:15

for half the way round, and then the other half he was saying, I'm most terribly sorry, but could I go to the loo? And you got into people's flats. The moment you got behind the door, of course people would talk. It was in a way they never would on a doorstep.

Presenter16:29

Did you ever attempt to stand as an MP yourself?

Baroness Trumpington16:32

Oh, a long time after, twice, once in Cambridge and once in Ely.

Baroness Trumpington16:37

Disaster, not ready for me.

Presenter16:39

Why? What happened?

Baroness Trumpington16:40

Well, I mean the proof of the pudding was that my name was Gene Barker by that time.

Baroness Trumpington16:45

And I went through the whole interview.

Baroness Trumpington16:48

uh for the shortlist, with them calling me Mrs. Baker, and I was so frightened and nervous.

Baroness Trumpington16:55

But um

Baroness Trumpington16:56

I let them.

Baroness Trumpington16:57

And at the end the la the last question was why are there so few women in Parliament? By that time I knew I wasn't going to make it, so I said because of selection committees like you and stormed out. Stormed cried. Oh, did you?

Presenter17:09

Oh, did you? Burst into tears. What about women in Westminster today? Are they treated differently from men at all, or does equality reign?

Baroness Trumpington17:11

Did you have a significant?

Baroness Trumpington17:18

No, uh I think equality reigns. Uh certainly it's changed.

Baroness Trumpington17:24

Quite a lot even in the time since I've been there.

Baroness Trumpington17:29

The men were very cross when we took one of their loo's away from them, but we were very short of loos because that was.

Baroness Trumpington17:36

One of the outward signs is that women have a harder time.

Presenter17:40

Or one of the inward signs.

Baroness Trumpington17:41

Yeah.

Presenter17:42

Well, you made a very positive contribution shortly after arriving because they made you a whip, didn't they?

Baroness Trumpington17:47

Yes, which was a big thrill and and I'm think I was uh only the second conservative.

Presenter17:51

Globing

Baroness Trumpington17:54

Woman to be

Baroness Trumpington17:56

A whip, which is actually something we still have over the commons, because they've never had a woman whip.

Baroness Trumpington18:02

Some more music. Well, I was very lucky. I went at the end of the war to France. I found the premises and I opened them up for an international organization which was set up to put the inland transport of Europe back on its feet.

Baroness Trumpington18:18

And Paris.

Baroness Trumpington18:20

In nineteen forty six was

Baroness Trumpington18:23

Very special, very different, and it was great fun. So to sort of encapsulate all the Charles Trennet music which I adored, and all the other marvellous French tunes there were at that time, I think Edith Biaff singing La Vien Ruse.

Speaker 318:56

Temu the turret.

Speaker 318:58

Something kinda pushed

Speaker 319:09

We did.

Presenter19:10

Piaf la Vie en Rose.

Presenter19:12

You were married at the age of thirty two, I think, Lady Trumpington, to uh an Eton schoolmaster, and the wedding day was, I believe, preceded by yet another dire.

Baroness Trumpington19:21

Oh, yes, but I was absolutely wraith-like on the day.

Baroness Trumpington19:26

As a matter of fact, I bought my new my wedding dress in New York and I used to have such fun because I had a friend who worked in Vogue.

Baroness Trumpington19:34

who let me get a a wholesale wedding dress down in the garment industry, and I remember going to try it on.

Baroness Trumpington19:42

and a great big, sweet black gentleman used to lean against the cos rail and say, How's my little English cousin to day?

Baroness Trumpington19:50

And then I came back with my beautiful wedding dress.

Baroness Trumpington19:54

And I on the great day, when I came down the aisle, both Alan and I heard a voice say, What a waste

Baroness Trumpington20:02

And we've never known to this day how it was spelt.

Baroness Trumpington20:06

Or who said it? Or who said it. Or which one is it Vasit referred to?

Presenter20:12

I read too that that despite your love of food you you were a pretty hopeless cook were you?

Baroness Trumpington20:17

Oh, my first tossed salad was tossed straight into the rice pins. I'd made it with a cabbage instead of a lettuce.

Presenter20:25

But but good fun. I it's it's it's interesting that because the word eccentric is something that crops up when one quite regularly when one reads about you. Is you're not at all eccentric, are you just good fun, really?

Baroness Trumpington20:37

I think I I I like to think so. I don't know.

Presenter20:41

But does it annoy you sometimes that people

Presenter20:44

Portray you as one big giggle. I mean, they enjoy you. Yes, it does.

Baroness Trumpington20:47

Yes, it does. Um it does and it doesn't. Um you know, if you want to get a message over to people, a serious message.

Baroness Trumpington20:55

There's it's no bad thing.

Baroness Trumpington20:58

To make people laugh if you possibly can. It's taking a chance, but it's worth trying, because if they think you've made them laugh once,

Baroness Trumpington21:08

They kind of look out to see if you're going to make them laugh again. In between times they'll be listening to what you really want them to.

Baroness Trumpington21:15

Uh the message they really

Baroness Trumpington21:17

ought to be receiving, uh and so it's perhaps not a bad ploy, but it's my way of doing things.

Presenter21:24

It's just confusing for people perhaps to to um to meet a politician who enjoys a good laugh.

Baroness Trumpington21:29

That's a very depressing thing to say. Not my experience when I meet them.

Baroness Trumpington21:35

Next record.

Baroness Trumpington21:36

Well, the next one is.

Baroness Trumpington21:39

Very, very sort of nostalgic for me because I spent a wonderful two years in New York working in an advertising agency.

Baroness Trumpington21:48

Again, thoroughly enjoying myself. And I also met my husband there. He had a Commonwealth Fellowship to Yale.

Baroness Trumpington21:56

And I remember very well

Baroness Trumpington21:58

The first weekend that friends of mine and I went down to Yale, we had a Marcus weekend.

Baroness Trumpington22:04

And that was when I met my husband.

Baroness Trumpington22:06

And so it is, I like New York in June.

Speaker 322:12

I like New York in June. How about you? I like a Gershwin tune. How about you?

Speaker 322:29

I love a fireside when a storm is due.

Presenter22:36

Judy Garland singing How About You

Presenter22:39

Twelve years you spent, Lady Trumpington, on Cambridge City Council, serving as the leader of the Tories, and the Mayor and the Deputy Mayor. I presume it was all very good political training.

Baroness Trumpington22:48

The best. I it's something if if a young man or a young woman comes to me now and says

Baroness Trumpington22:54

How do I get into politics? I say go into local governments first. It's not so much the actual.

Baroness Trumpington23:01

Council meetings.

Baroness Trumpington23:03

It's the committees that you get on.

Baroness Trumpington23:07

Both inside and outside the council. I mean, as a result of being a city councillor, I was on the board of Addenbrook's Hospital.

Baroness Trumpington23:15

I was on the board of an approved school.

Baroness Trumpington23:19

I was a governor of two secondary modern schools in Cambridge. All those sort of things were wonderful experience.

Baroness Trumpington23:28

and are the best education for anybody who wants to start on a political life.

Presenter23:33

You were also during a lot of this time, and indeed still are sometimes, very outspoken. Didn't you once take on the mite of British Rail,'cause they wouldn't refund you half a ticket?

Baroness Trumpington23:42

I certainly did, and I'd be quite prepared to take on anybody where I where I think I see an injustice done.

Presenter23:51

It's all very p public spirited, that righting r wrongs, as you say, and and correcting injustices being the voice of of common sense, if you like. But what's in it for you? Do you actually enjoy doing it as well? Do you get a g enormous pleasure out of it?

Baroness Trumpington24:05

I get very irritated if I think that there are unnecessary barriers put in people's ways, and I'm prepared to go on and on and on in order to try and do something about it. I hate being defeated.

Presenter24:19

But you you also like being right, do you?

Baroness Trumpington24:21

Who doesn't?

Presenter24:23

I just wonder if it's a particularly f female characteristic actually. I mean, putting things right, getting things sorted, telling people how they ought to do something.

Baroness Trumpington24:33

It may be.

Presenter24:34

I think we're both confessing something here.

Presenter24:37

Let's go into record number six. What's that?

Baroness Trumpington24:41

Well, that is of course um totally associated with Cambridge and my very, very happy life at the Lees School, and my very, very happy marriage. And uh it um also in a way brings in my son, because I

Baroness Trumpington24:57

Read one of the lessons at the Service for Nine Carols in King's College Chapel, which is So.

Baroness Trumpington25:06

Moving and beautiful as our service be past belief.

Baroness Trumpington25:11

And I happened to have the lesson which is about the lamb and the lyn, and at the end of it I thought I'd read it quite exquisitely, but my son said,'Mum, trust you to think of food' and apparently I'd said,'And a little lamb shall feed them instead of lead them,' which upset me more than I can say.

Baroness Trumpington25:29

But it was a very happy I suppose the happiest time of my life, really, my years in Cambridge.

Presenter26:32

The choir of King's College, Cambridge, singing Once in Royal David City. A lot of goose pimples and tears.

Baroness Trumpington26:37

Simply wonderful.

Presenter26:40

Well now, how will you amuse yourself on the desert island, Lady Trumpington? What will I do?

Baroness Trumpington26:44

What will you do all day? I've been worrying about that quite a lot, because if you've read what my interests are.

Baroness Trumpington26:53

Um

Presenter26:54

Bridge, racing, antiques and needle point.

Presenter26:58

Not a lot of them on the

Baroness Trumpington26:58

Not a lot of them on the unique collection of shells.

Baroness Trumpington27:03

and I might be able to find something to race against.

Baroness Trumpington27:07

It's

Baroness Trumpington27:08

counterpart sort of thing.

Baroness Trumpington27:10

I do hope the island isn't full of creepy crawleys, because I absolutely loathe them, in which case I might be sort of

Baroness Trumpington27:16

uh stand all day half in the sea in order to sort of avoid them.

Baroness Trumpington27:21

And I'd have to find things to cook somehow or other, or to eat.

Baroness Trumpington27:26

Great problem. Yes.

Presenter27:27

How how seriously do you take your racing? Is it an important part of your life?

Baroness Trumpington27:32

Well, at the moment I'm in charge of

Baroness Trumpington27:35

Everything except racing to do with horses.

Baroness Trumpington27:39

in the Ministry of Agriculture.

Baroness Trumpington27:41

My love of horses

Baroness Trumpington27:43

Makes that part of my job very satisfactory.

Presenter27:45

But you're a steward, aren't you, Actor?

Baroness Trumpington27:47

I'm a steward fixed.

Presenter27:48

And and do you succumb? Do you have a flutter yourself, quite naked?

Baroness Trumpington27:51

When I'm not stewarding. Oh, yes, I do.

Baroness Trumpington27:54

Oh, yes, I do. I get a hell of a kick out of racing, I have to say.

Presenter27:57

And what about your bridge? Do you have a flutter on that too?

Baroness Trumpington28:00

Indeed I do. I don't l I don't really enjoy playing bridge, excepting for money.

Presenter28:06

So is this gambling in the lords we're learning of?

Baroness Trumpington28:08

Oh no, uh no games of charms are allowed in the Palace of Westminster except chess, which doesn't count as.

Baroness Trumpington28:16

As a gambling game.

Presenter28:17

But some

Baroness Trumpington28:17

But some of me.

Presenter28:18

Some would say they play games of chance all of the time in the Palace of Westminster.

Baroness Trumpington28:21

Some would, some might.

Presenter28:24

What about the needle point then? Now there's a dying art. Does that mean your house is full of fire screens and chair covers?

Baroness Trumpington28:29

Before I had very, very time consuming jobs, I'd got it down to rather a fine art, and I used to do Christmas presents for my friends who I thought had everything of doing their houses in Needle Point.

Baroness Trumpington28:43

and mounting them as cushions, it was a great success.

Presenter28:47

Right. Record number seven.

Baroness Trumpington28:49

Well, record number seven is Joan Sutherland singing the Aria Amamia Alfredo from the second act of Addy's La Traviata, and that is a sort of mixture of reasons I've got that. Partly my husband tried to educate me musically.

Baroness Trumpington29:05

and we had many happy evenings.

Baroness Trumpington29:08

Particularly at the Coliseum.

Baroness Trumpington29:10

Well

Baroness Trumpington29:11

The performance is wonderful and it's.

Baroness Trumpington29:13

Not really too expensive to go and enjoy opera.

Baroness Trumpington29:17

And also

Baroness Trumpington29:18

Amongst my very good friends I have we have a couple called Pam and Ronnie Furz with whom we play a great deal of bridge and have played in the past, and I still go on playing a great deal of bridge with them. And Traviata is always the background for our bridge games with a great deal of singing and rather bad bridge.

Presenter30:32

Joan Sutherland singing the aria Amami Alfredo from the second act of Verdi's La Traviata with the National Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Richard Bonning.

Presenter30:41

So these days you're a Minister of State at Agenfish, as you say. But if you could choose a ministry to work in, and you've been in health as well, haven't you?

Presenter30:50

What topic would you really like to get your hands on or your teeth into?

Baroness Trumpington30:55

I'm very, very happy and think I'm very, very lucky.

Presenter30:59

Too high

Baroness Trumpington30:59

To be where I am.

Presenter31:00

You haven't got your eye on more senior office or something else.

Baroness Trumpington31:03

Good God, no. I mean, I'm I regard myself as the female equivalent of Lester Piggard. I'm the oldest member of the government.

Baroness Trumpington31:12

I am so lucky to have a job, and a job I adore.

Baroness Trumpington31:16

And a job I think I don't do too badly at times. But um I wouldn't change it for anything. I'm very, very happy.

Presenter31:24

And indeed more important than all of that achievement is that happiness, isn't it? It seems to me that uh that you thoroughly enjoyed everything you've done.

Baroness Trumpington31:32

I think so, yes. I think um if you enjoy yourself, other people are are likely to be sort of

Baroness Trumpington31:39

not too unhappy around you. But um

Baroness Trumpington31:42

I mean every every time I go out in the country I see something new, I learn something.

Baroness Trumpington31:47

And I also realize how really beautiful this country is and

Baroness Trumpington31:53

Don't let people think that a lot of that beauty hasn't been created by our farmers.

Presenter31:59

Last record.

Baroness Trumpington32:00

So the last one is again happy memories in Italy, the sunshine, the wine.

Baroness Trumpington32:07

And Evenings Under the Stars.

Speaker 332:17

Da

Speaker 332:25

Maybe.

Speaker 332:26

Di Vinto Di Blue

Speaker 332:28

Fericheni stared asu.

Baroness Trumpington32:34

Well, I hope I didn't scare the birds away from the island with that.

Presenter32:38

Lovely, Villari. Now, which of the eight, then, Lady Trumpington, must you have above all of the others?

Baroness Trumpington32:44

I th that is very, very difficult.

Presenter32:45

Mm.

Baroness Trumpington32:47

Choice to make, and I think I'll take Yvonne Prento.

Presenter32:51

The very first one are Memories of Your Father.

Baroness Trumpington32:53

Well all said that I think it's such a beautiful song.

Presenter32:55

Hmm.

Presenter32:56

What about a book? You've got the complete works of Shakespeare, and you've got a Bible there waiting for you on the sand.

Baroness Trumpington33:01

I'd like to take George the Fifth written by Kenneth Rose.

Baroness Trumpington33:05

I think it's a marvellously written book.

Baroness Trumpington33:08

It's got humour as well as all the

Baroness Trumpington33:12

Facts of the time, which is

Baroness Trumpington33:15

before I was born and but also carried through to a part of my life.

Baroness Trumpington33:21

And I forget things so easily that I'd like to re-read it.

Baroness Trumpington33:26

and digest it and uh remember those some of those events.

Presenter33:32

and a luxury.

Baroness Trumpington33:33

Oh, now.

Baroness Trumpington33:35

My luxury will have to be supplied by you. I'd like the crown jewels, because uh somebody would come and look for me if I had them, and they are so exquisitely beautiful.

Presenter33:47

Ingenious.

Presenter33:49

We shall try. Baroness Trumpington of Sandwich in the county of Kent. Thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Baroness Trumpington33:55

Thank you. It's been a lovely morning.

Speaker 234:04

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.