Ernie Wise

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 10:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen ninety, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:29

My castaway this week is a comedian. He first set foot on the stage fifty eight years ago, wearing red clogs and singing I'm Knee Deep in Daisies. This auspicious beginning was enhanced when, at the age of fourteen, he met the man with whom he was to spend nearly fifty years of his professional life. Together they sang, danced and joked their way to the top, from the second spot at the Liverpool Empire to a national television series of their own. At the height of their fame they were attracting audiences of twenty six million.

Presenter0:58

When six years ago his partner died, my castaway, left to stand on his own short, fat, hairy legs, set about building a new show business career for himself. He is, of course, Little Earne, the much put upon half of the great Morecambe and Wise double act, Ernie Wise. So how are the short, fat, hairy legs, Ernie? Are they bearing up?

Ernie Wise1:16

They're as good as ever. I comb them every morning, of course. I display them too.

Presenter1:20

And the join, I mean, I still can't see it.

Ernie Wise1:23

No, no. That was a wonderful joke, wasn't it? What happened was that we were in some digs in Chiswick. There was a guy who was staying there with us, and he was an acropath. He was called Paul Kafka. And he used to wear a wig, an obvious wig, with a top piece, you know, and you could see all the glue at the front and everything. So we used to walk around saying, out of the corner of our mouths, you can't see the join. And that developed from there. And eventually Eric said it about me. But of course it was jealousy, really. And because Eric was losing his hair, you know, he was all receding, if you remember.

Presenter1:55

So is this news Ernie Wise has never, ever worn a toupee?

Ernie Wise1:58

I never won a two-pair hair. I've got the most beautiful hair. You can run through it barefoot if you'd like.

Presenter2:02

Nearly as nice as the lakes huh?

Ernie Wise2:03

Nearly as nice as the red. I'm very hairy.

Presenter2:05

Now the very interesting thing about you is uh that I've come across is that when you and Eric met you were taller than him.

Ernie Wise2:12

Yes, I was, yes, yes. It's funny though, isn't it? Yeah, and we we met at um at Swansea, actually. I I met him, I think, briefly no, I saw him give his audition in Manchester, he came onto the stage and uh he sang a song called I'm Not All There, There's Something Missing.

Ernie Wise2:27

He had a berry and he wore a cut-down sort of evening dress suit, like an ascot suit, with a very, very big safety pin in the front.

Ernie Wise2:35

And he had a bootlace tie and he had a big lollipop that he used to and he used to sing, I'm not all there, there's something missing, I'm not all there, so the folks declare, they call me Loopy Loopy, nothing but and um

Ernie Wise2:49

That's what I say to people now. They say, How do you feel now? And I say, Well, looking at me, I'm not all there, there's something missing.

Presenter2:56

Were y were you worried by the competition? I mean, was yours a similar act?

Ernie Wise2:59

Uh yeah, well uh the all the band were there and all the band said to me, Well, Anne, nice knowing you, we've found a replacement and that was the standing joke. I didn't think it was funny at all.

Ernie Wise3:09

But that that was how it went. Then I didn't see him. Uh he sort of went and uh'cause it was a competition, some competition that he'd won, an audition in front of Jack Hilton.

Ernie Wise3:19

And then later on I think we met briefly at Crewe, and then we joined together in um in Swansea and we just became mates.

Presenter3:27

Well no hang on'cause the store is running away with the money.

Ernie Wise3:28

Dawn is running away from the middle of the city.

Presenter3:30

Let's find out about you on the on the desert island before we go any further.

Ernie Wise3:34

Yeah.

Presenter3:34

Will you be back in the old song and dance shooting in the blazer and the straw hat on the beach, huh?

Ernie Wise3:39

On the beach. Uh no, first the first thing I would make would be a hat, because I'm one of those people that must have a hat. I'd either make something out of leaves or I would wear my straw hat,'cause I won't go in the sun without uh without a hat on. I wouldn't wear anything else, I'd be in the nude.

Presenter3:52

Oh, I see.

Ernie Wise3:53

Oh, yes, I'd enjoy that.

Presenter3:55

We shall visualize this image as we listen to the music. Now, how have you chosen the records, Ernie?

Ernie Wise4:00

I've chosen the one that's going to wake me up every morning, and it's the Gene Kelly, Debbie Reynolds and Donald O'Connor Good Morning from Singin' in the Rain, and I I just love it. I mean it excites me.

Speaker 44:10

Good morning.

Ernie Wise4:12

Good morning, we've

Speaker 44:14

Good morning, good morning to you Good morning More than

Ernie Wise4:22

Good morning, it's great to stay up late. Good morning, good morning to you.

Ernie Wise4:30

When the band began to play, the stars were shining bright Now the milkman's on his way It's too late to say good night So good night

Presenter4:40

Jean Kelly, Debbie Reynolds and Donald O'Connor singing Good Morning from Singing in the Rain. Let's leave Eric out of it for a bit, Ernie, and talk about your beginnings. You were the eldest of five children of a Leeds railway porter, yeah?

Ernie Wise4:50

Children, yes.

Ernie Wise4:52

Yes. My father was uh worked on the railway at a place called East Ard's List station.

Presenter4:52

Uh

Ernie Wise4:56

In Yorkshire, and we lived in a railway cottage just nearby. So there were seven of us. £2 a week. My mother had thirty shillings to.

Speaker 15:01

The end

Ernie Wise5:04

actually feed us all. But we had this added income, which was the the fact of going round the clubs with my father.

Presenter5:12

What earning a bob

Ernie Wise5:13

We could own three pounds uh ten or three pounds fifty actually, yeah.

Presenter5:16

What more than he earned for his proper job, as it were?

Ernie Wise5:18

And more than his proper job, yes.

Presenter5:20

And did you take to it easily? Did you like performing?

Ernie Wise5:23

Yeah. Um I never questioned it. I mean, I used to go round the clubs with my father uh Saturday and Sunday, and I'd get home very late sometimes, you know, midnight, and I had to be at school in the morning. So I was a very tired boy. But I never questioned it.

Ernie Wise5:37

I'm instinctively um a worker and an earner.

Ernie Wise5:40

And I pay my way I'm typical Yorkshire, elegant Yorkshireman and I pay my way and I don't owe money and I pay my bills on time and I have a fear, a great fear of debt.

Presenter5:50

So you're thrifty. Did you get that from your mum or dad?

Ernie Wise5:53

People say I'm worse than brutal.

Ernie Wise5:55

I have a reputation of being a typewriter, yes. But that is insecurity. Yes, I still very carefully.

Presenter5:56

Well, I wasn't gonna be.

Ernie Wise6:04

I've always been careful with my money all my life. My mother was a very careful person and I was brought up on your best friend is your bank book.

Presenter6:11

So that's where you get it from, because they've said in the past, haven't they, that uh that you and Eric were in show business. He was the show and you were the business, huh?

Ernie Wise6:17

Absolutely. I always have been. It is show business. People don't realize that. The showy side is very nice. It's lovely. I mean, you get some wonderful treats and you get special treatment, particularly if you're famous. But the business side is terribly important because you have to make sure that you get the money

Ernie Wise6:34

And other people don't get it first. It's one of those.

Presenter6:36

Okay, so it's it's it's nineteen thirty two and you're seven years old and you're in the Wakefield Labour Club.

Ernie Wise6:40

Yeah.

Presenter6:43

And Carson and Kid, which is what you were called.

Ernie Wise6:43

Yeah.

Ernie Wise6:44

We were called Carson and Kidd. We played uh around all the Leeds clubs and in Wakefield and and all around there until we got found out. The education authorities found out that my father was taking me round the clubs and being exploited, you know, and they told him that he'd have to stop immediately. It was not allowable, otherwise they would prosecute.

Ernie Wise7:02

So we immediately moved to Bradford.

Ernie Wise7:04

And I worked Braff, and we never worked leads again.

Presenter7:08

But come on, what did you sing?

Ernie Wise7:08

Yeah.

Ernie Wise7:09

What did I sing? Well, what we had to do was about half a dozen numbers during the night. And I used to sing I'm knee-deep in daises, I'm knee-deep in daises and head over heels in love. Though I'm acting like a clown in this little one-horse town, I'm hazy, I'm crazy, I guess that I'm in love because I'm knee-deep in daises and head over heels in love. Now, isn't that an achievement to be able to remember all those words all the from the age of about six?

Presenter7:33

From the age of a

Presenter7:35

Very good.

Ernie Wise7:36

Yeah.

Presenter7:36

Right, let's have record number two there, what's it?

Ernie Wise7:38

Well record number two is well while I'm on this island I mean I'll put some clothes on sometime. When I go for a swim after I've heard good morning and cheered myself up I shall slowly get out of bed and I shall take all my clothes off very slowly to the tune of the stripper because it holds special memories because you remember our famous kitchen routine and that's what I would like the stripper.

Presenter8:37

The David Rose Orchestra playing The Stripper. You can put your clothes back on now, eh?

Ernie Wise8:41

I put my clothes back on. You could see me just going down to the pool, couldn't you? Slowly throwing everything off. Actually, David Rose, the uh the man who wrote the stripper, came over to England and he took back with him a copy of of our recording of it on the on the T V show, which we did to the kitchen, if you remember, all those um

Presenter8:57

Yes, it was you sort of squeezing the greatest.

Ernie Wise8:59

Well, there were the bits where I was, yes, making the omelette, and there was the bits where he was squeezing the grapefruits and everything. But the moment, the supreme moment.

Ernie Wise9:08

was when

Ernie Wise9:10

We opened the fridge door.

Ernie Wise9:12

And the light came on and we did the the stripper with the sausages and everything.

Presenter9:15

Yes, that was.

Ernie Wise9:16

That was the the the touch.

Presenter9:18

Now, back to your life, though. So so you started off in a very amateur fashion, but as you say, doubling the family income round the club. That's right. But at what point did did did the young Master Wiseman, because that was your name,

Ernie Wise9:29

Um Marta Ernest Wiseman, I guess.

Presenter9:31

At what point did he think I wouldn't mind doing this for a living?

Ernie Wise9:34

My father was always trying to get me away from the working men's clubs into some sort of professional situation. And I went and gave this audition to Brian Mickey at Leeds Empire.

Ernie Wise9:45

And um

Ernie Wise9:47

Didn't hear anything. That was it. Then the next thing we got a telegram.

Ernie Wise9:50

Obviously Brian Mickey had gone to London, the situation was this, mechanics of it. He went to London and in conversation with Jack Hilton, he must have said, I saw this kid up in uh Leeds and he was funny and he told these jokes and boy he was a cheeky devil, you know, which I was. I must have been, mustn't I?

Ernie Wise10:08

And uh I think Jack said he would make a good publicity um gimmick.

Speaker 410:13

Hmm.

Ernie Wise10:13

And so he brought me down I auditioned him that afternoon in his office and he put me on that night at the Princess Theatre, and that was in January nineteen thirty nine.

Ernie Wise10:24

And um

Presenter10:25

You must have been terrified.

Ernie Wise10:27

No, not for one minute. I'd be terrified now. I wasn't terrified then. And was your daddy.

Presenter10:32

And was your dad in the audience?

Ernie Wise10:34

My dad, yes. Well, of course, tears in his eyes, you know.

Presenter10:36

But

Ernie Wise10:36

And I went on to that stage and I was uh the following morning I was headlines all over the country. Railway Porter Sun success overnight, you know.

Ernie Wise10:46

And uh

Presenter10:46

So you'd have been, what, thirty?

Ernie Wise10:48

I was yes, about um twelve and a half.

Presenter10:50

Good heavens.

Ernie Wise10:51

Twelve and a half and they said to my father, Would you like to stay on with him?

Ernie Wise10:55

And uh he said no, he had to go back home and um

Ernie Wise10:58

look after the family, he had a regular job, he was frightened, you know. And he was um he was never the same, you know.

Speaker 111:01

Yeah.

Ernie Wise11:04

When I left.

Ernie Wise11:06

It it broke his heart. My mother always used to say it broke his heart when you'cause we were so close. And even to this day,

Ernie Wise11:12

My father's always with me, you know. I know it sounds funny to say that, but he's with me now, or inside me.

Presenter11:17

But in a sense you were fulfilling his dreams for himself and therefore

Ernie Wise11:19

Yeah.

Ernie Wise11:20

Yeah, but of course unfortunately it meant he had to um release me for for this uh and I got six pounds.

Ernie Wise11:28

A week.

Ernie Wise11:29

Now that's good money. And that three pounds was sent home and I lived off the other three pounds.

Presenter11:35

Record number three.

Ernie Wise11:36

Oh yeah. Well, I had such wonderful memories of um the Jack Hilton Orchestra because he really looked after me. He was l like a father to me. I'd like uh a number from uh the Jack Hilton Orchestra just to remember those days.

Speaker 411:50

The stars. Huck on a twinkle and shot

Ernie Wise11:53

Like gonna twinkle a child

Speaker 411:58

This evening, about a quarter to nine.

Speaker 111:58

They

Speaker 412:04

My loving o

Speaker 112:04

My love is

Speaker 412:07

And on a gently twin Around you, around the quarter tonight.

Ernie Wise12:12

Around you

Ernie Wise12:16

I

Speaker 412:17

I know I

Ernie Wise12:17

I know I won't be late,'cause it happened

Speaker 412:22

I'm gonna hurry there I'll be waiting where the lane begins

Speaker 412:30

Waiting for you on needles and pins And then the world is gonna be mine

Speaker 412:40

This same thing about a quarter to nine.

Presenter12:47

Sam Brown with Jack Hilton and his orchestra and about a quarter to nine.

Presenter12:51

So Jack Hilton came from the north as well, didn't he?

Ernie Wise12:54

Yes, he was sort of from Bolton and um he started the hard way, like me sort of thing. I think he was a piano player, used to play in pubs and things like that. And but it so I think he saw something uh in me'cause he had a he had did have a good eye for talent, Jack Hilton, found a lot of good people.

Presenter13:08

And was it he who suggested you should drop the man from the wise man?

Ernie Wise13:11

Yes, yes, he did. He said, We'll change your name to Ernie Wise. And he made me more sophisticated.

Ernie Wise13:16

Originally I used to wear the uh the sort of Charlie Chaplin-ish bowler hat and a little black tash and a cut down evening dress suit, exactly like what Eric wore, with a big uh pin in the front, which is quite an interesting coincidence. And I had red clogs and he put me into a sort of evening dress, white coat, straw hat. I became sort of like a

Ernie Wise13:36

A Maurice Chevalier.

Presenter13:38

So by the time you met Eric, I mean you were probably the smarter of the

Ernie Wise13:41

Oh yes, I was the smart Alec, yes. I was the biggest star in a in a sense,'cause I'd been around longer and I knew Jack Hilton personally. I mean, I was'cause I'd lived with uh Jack Hilton down at to Kingston Gores, Angering on Sea. I moved in all that circle.

Presenter13:56

So you were taller, you were smarter, you were more professional. You met up with this fellow called Eric. He didn't really want to be the funny man, did he?

Ernie Wise13:58

Professional.

Ernie Wise14:01

Kind of, yeah.

Ernie Wise14:05

I don't think so. I always thought um it always struck me that he always felt very self-conscious. Um

Ernie Wise14:11

uh when his mum used to make him up in these comedy clothes and whiten his face a bit, put her make up on, you know, and and a bit of lipstick and all that. And he was always very self conscious about being the dopey one. I think he would have been much happier as the smart sort of

Ernie Wise14:26

Debonair type.

Presenter14:27

A sort of carry grants.

Ernie Wise14:28

Oh, you always heard that, yeah. When we came to make the films later on, he was he wanted to make the films, yes, very much so. Wanted to be a film star.

Presenter14:37

But he took to it in the end, didn't he? When you originally set up, obviously, you know, you became the feed and he became the company.

Ernie Wise14:42

Yeah, I became the straight man and he became uh the comedian and uh we were based very much in Ebbett Costello. I mean we copied their material. And even to this day uh we do a routine uh with Peter Cushing and bank managers, uh a money routine that we did all those years ago, pinched from Ebbett and Costello. We still keep it up. Oh, we did.

Presenter15:02

But he was the insecure one, wasn't he?

Ernie Wise15:04

Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think he was more well, we did a show that flopped very badly called Running Wild, and that um upset him very much. And it was a critical time of our career.

Ernie Wise15:14

And um he was very upset over that. And but I was always the book you see, I won't give up, you know that. I'm uh tenacious and um

Presenter15:22

So you kept him going.

Ernie Wise15:23

I'm thick-skinned and I kept him going, yes.

Presenter15:25

But it did always seem with Eric, I mean, off-screen, that this constant need to make people love him. Yes, yes, he had to be able to.

Ernie Wise15:30

Yes, yes, he had a constant yes, it was a neuro like one would call a neurosis. Um if you were in company, he would be the life and soul of the party. People used to say to him, You know, why don't you switch off sometime?

Ernie Wise15:42

You know, take the batteries out because he was always full of ebulence, you know, full of light.

Presenter15:48

And why couldn't he switch off?

Ernie Wise15:50

Insecurity. I think he felt that they would stop laughing.

Presenter15:53

He was frightened that suddenly he wouldn't be able to make the advancing.

Ernie Wise15:54

I think yes, i if they when we came on if they didn't laugh it frightened him to death.

Presenter15:59

What it all meant, uh of course, Ernie, was that that you had to put up with people saying that it was Eric who was the funny one.

Ernie Wise16:06

Yes, that's right. What happens is that the public see a double act and they um they think, Oh, aren't those two good? Oh, they're smashing, I like those two Then as they get more popular, they look a bit closer and they say, Well, he's very funny, isn't he? But the other one doesn't seem to do much. I reckon he could do that without him and they get that attitude. But of course it's wrong.

Ernie Wise16:25

Let's pause for a bit. Yeah.

Presenter16:26

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Ernie Wise16:27

Well, I would lie in that uh lagoon and I on my back and I want something to relax with. I love the piano. My mother played the piano. I'd like Edelgarna playing Misty.

Presenter17:29

Errol Garner playing Misty

Presenter17:32

So together you and Eric played them all, really, didn't you? The Clapham Grand, the Liverpool M

Ernie Wise17:36

All the tough dates, yeah. Well, particularly Glasgow Empire.

Presenter17:39

What is it about the Glasgow M?

Ernie Wise17:41

Well, they didn't really like English comedians. It was a very well-run theatre, it was a very nice stage manager.

Ernie Wise17:46

And we had a good orchestra, but you couldn't get any laughs. I mean, we used to go out there and we would do the whole act in silence.

Ernie Wise17:54

I remember vividly doing one show, Silence, where we came off.

Ernie Wise17:59

And the fireman said,

Ernie Wise18:01

They're beginning to like you.

Ernie Wise18:03

And the reason was that nobody thrown anything, you see.

Presenter18:06

But isn't that uh the Glasgow Empire where your running gag about Des O'Connor began?

Ernie Wise18:11

Well, the thing was that Des, unfortunately, has never lived this down. He went on to.

Ernie Wise18:16

Glasgow Empire, um, I think he was probably second spot. And I don't know the actual I've never heard the really true story, but whether he wasn't getting any laughs or what, but he fainted and they just pulled him uh from underneath the curtain. And he caused unfortunately he's never

Presenter18:30

Uh

Ernie Wise18:30

Live that down.

Presenter18:31

But it was Eric who picked up on that.

Ernie Wise18:33

Oh yeah, from then on we've uh always uh talked about death, yeah.

Presenter18:35

Settle.

Presenter18:37

Well this is my impression of Desert Cono Catoin.

Ernie Wise18:39

But m yeah, it used to come on as this desert of

Ernie Wise18:42

Terrible, isn't it? Yes.

Presenter18:43

Do you think he minded, Desiree? Has he ever said look? Or did he ever used to say

Ernie Wise18:47

Well, I think it's double-edged. I think in the long run perhaps he would have been happier if we'd have left him alone.

Presenter18:50

Yeah.

Ernie Wise18:53

As it is, he still lives with it. He's a good sport, and he came on the show.

Presenter18:57

Joe

Presenter18:58

But exactly. Your comedy really, on the whole, was never cruel, was it? When you had those guest stars on, they retained their dignity, didn't they?

Ernie Wise19:04

No it

Ernie Wise19:06

Or they retain their dignity, and also, remember, we never knocked anybody that was a failure.

Ernie Wise19:11

I mean, we only knew people that were successful. And of course I had this en enormous ego that I my plays were going to make them into um big stars. Plays what you wrote. Play what I wrote was gonna really make them. I mean the stuff they'd been doing before, that Shakespeare stuff, was all rubbish. There wasn't a laugh in it.

Presenter19:18

Please

Presenter19:26

Let's have the next record.

Ernie Wise19:28

Well, I have a special relationship with uh Gene Kelly and uh Singin' in the Rain because uh it's one of my big solo moments. If you remember we did it on the T V show and um

Ernie Wise19:39

I did the whole of the dance routine and I was quite amazed that I got through it. And it looks pretty good. I wasn't in the rain. Eric was the one, if you remember.

Presenter19:46

Yeah, one of the few occasions you didn't get the rough end, really. No, I didn't get the rough end. You didn't get wet.

Ernie Wise19:49

The guy didn't get the rough end. He didn't get wet. No, he was the one who got wet all the time. And I feel I had a great sense of achievement over doing singing. What a glorious feel. And I'm happy again. Uh

Speaker 420:11

I'm laughing at clouds, so dark up above.

Speaker 420:18

Uh

Presenter20:18

And the sun's in my heart, and I'm ready for love Jean Kelly singing in the rain. It was in nineteen sixty eight, Ernie, that that Eric had his first heart attack. Wasn't it? He was forty three.

Ernie Wise20:30

Okay.

Ernie Wise20:33

Well, yes, somewhere like that. Well, when he was down the mines during the war, they they discharged him with a weak heart then, so the trouble went all those years back.

Presenter20:40

But did it come as a surprise? Or had it crossed your mind?

Ernie Wise20:43

Oh no, it came as a surprise. No, it came as we didn't know. Um we were appearing at Batley and um

Ernie Wise20:51

Suddenly I that's why I hate the phone, you see. When the phone rings at one o'clock in the morning

Presenter20:52

He laughed.

Ernie Wise20:56

Then I know it's bad news.

Ernie Wise20:58

And the phone rang like one o'clock and did you know he'd had a heart attack? That was when I was in Wakefield. I was in the hotel in Wakefield.

Ernie Wise21:04

He was going back to his hotel, and we weren't in the same hotel.

Ernie Wise21:10

He suddenly felt terrible, felt very bad, and he got this guy to drive his Jensen for him. And this guy said, Oh, I'm not used to driving Jensens, I drive tanks, he said. And and Eric talks about the classic story when he got to the hospital and he was laid out, ready to go in there, um a fellow came up and said, Excuse me, uh Mr. Morcombe, before you go, could I be automatically

Presenter21:30

He did he got a lot of material out of this, didn't he?

Ernie Wise21:32

And the classic one I thought was that Des O'Connor was appearing um in a theater and he said um Eric Morecombe's um having um an operation or something and he's very seriously ill. He said, Could we all pray?

Ernie Wise21:47

for his recovery to the audience, which was a very nice gesture.

Ernie Wise21:51

And Eric said, thanks very much, Des. He said, but those sixteen or seventeen people that were in your audience didn't seem to make any difference.

Ernie Wise21:59

Still couldn't resist getting at him.

Presenter22:01

The other very good line, of course, was that he said it was nature's way of telling Ernie he needs a rest.

Ernie Wise22:05

Yeah, I'd forgotten that one, yeah, that's true.

Presenter22:09

But you went on after that to do well, some of your best work, really, didn't you?

Ernie Wise22:13

Yes. The thing is, from then on he had to take it easy.

Ernie Wise22:16

And we had to stop.

Ernie Wise22:18

touring in the pantomimes and the summer seasons and things and concentrate on television.

Presenter22:23

Hmm. And you pulled that audience at twenty-six million.

Ernie Wise22:25

That was, I think, if I'm not mistaken, the seventy-one show, nineteen seventy-one show with Glenda Jackson, with Andre Privy. We had three wonderful spots.

Presenter22:33

Only preview.

Ernie Wise22:34

Andrew Preview. I don't even know his real name now. Andrew Preview, Glenda Jackson and the Shirley Bassey. Everybody says, How did you get her to wear the boots? They never forget that. And those were the three pillars of the show, and uh we got a fantastic audience.

Presenter22:43

Uh

Presenter22:47

Yes, amazing. But but Eric after that ha did start to talk about giving up, didn't he?

Ernie Wise22:52

Towards the end.

Ernie Wise22:54

Like in nineteen eighty one, uh eighty two, he began to say, I don't really want to do uh any more shows.

Ernie Wise23:01

Before we did the show. But then, of course, when he got on the show and the adrenaline was going, he was marvellous.

Presenter23:05

Do you think, had he lived, that you would still have been together?

Ernie Wise23:09

Yes, I do. I think we would have been doing a Christmas show.

Presenter23:11

As it was, of course, he died in May 1984 on stage in Tewkesbury. Can you remember how you heard the news? Was that the.

Ernie Wise23:15

We stay.

Ernie Wise23:18

Yeah, yeah.

Presenter23:18

I was early morning phone call early.

Presenter23:21

Yeah.

Ernie Wise23:21

Yeah.

Ernie Wise23:21

doing this one man show, and I was gonna do it the following week. More or less a question and answer situation, you know. And um they said uh

Speaker 423:26

You know

Ernie Wise23:31

That he was he hadn't died then. I mean, he was he'd collapsed.

Ernie Wise23:36

I was in a hospital.

Ernie Wise23:39

And uh

Ernie Wise23:40

When I got the details later.

Ernie Wise23:42

And there wasn't anything I could do at the time.

Ernie Wise23:45

They said that he he did the question and answer.

Ernie Wise23:48

And then uh he was messing about in the show, you know, running about all over the place, which I would have stopped him doing.

Ernie Wise23:55

If I'd have been with him.

Ernie Wise23:57

And he came off and collapsed and banged his head. And I think the danger is the bang in the head, you see. I think he fell.

Speaker 124:02

Okay.

Speaker 424:02

Yeah.

Speaker 124:02

Thank you.

Ernie Wise24:04

Banged his head, of course, and got, I should think, concussion or something. And I understand he died at about uh five o'clock in the morning. Uh, Joan, his wife.

Ernie Wise24:12

Went up there, and I heard afterwards that uh Doctor Yacoub Yacoub.

Ernie Wise24:16

said that if he could have got there fast enough he might have been able to give him another heart.

Ernie Wise24:21

Which would have been a saviour, but. That's a bit probably a bit up.

Speaker 424:24

Some bit

Ernie Wise24:25

slender that and that was it and uh I think he went at about five or six in the morning I don't think he really properly recovered.

Presenter24:31

Was it for you a a case of feeling in a sense that half of you had died too?

Ernie Wise24:36

Well, we go back to when I first saw him give his audition, when he walked on to that stage.

Ernie Wise24:41

As a young boy?

Ernie Wise24:42

But he's burying his um

Speaker 124:43

Be on the

Ernie Wise24:45

Lollipop

Ernie Wise24:46

and sang

Ernie Wise24:48

I'm not all there, there's something missing. And that is what is the song when people see me. I'm not all there, there's something they expect to see.

Speaker 424:53

Yeah, this

Ernie Wise24:55

The tourist.

Speaker 424:55

And the joy was.

Ernie Wise24:56

Like somebody said the other day.

Ernie Wise25:00

Uh excuse me, but um

Ernie Wise25:02

Was it you or Eric that died?

Ernie Wise25:04

What a remark. People get the confusion, you know. But I don't get any spirit messages, by the way. It's not like my father, you know, my father. But I do dream about him.

Speaker 125:13

Okay.

Ernie Wise25:13

Oh yes, if I'm dreaming, uh what I was doing the double egg.

Ernie Wise25:16

That's when I dream about it.

Presenter25:19

Let's have record number six.

Ernie Wise25:21

Oh yes, all right. Well, I I think by now, I mean I've uh I've had the rain and I've had my swim and I've and everything, I think I'll need a laugh. There's one record, and comedy records don't normally make you laugh. I mean you get bored with them, but this one always makes me laugh and that's the Spike Jones on his City Slickers with Cocktails for Two. It's the beginning part of it and I immediately laugh.

Speaker 425:44

In some secluded rendezvous that overlooks the avenue

Speaker 425:52

With someone sharing a delightful chat Listen back to cocktails for two

Speaker 425:58

As we enjoy a cigarette.

Speaker 426:02

To some exquisite chance or not Two hands are sure to slyly meet beneath the serviette

Presenter26:09

Carl Grayson with Spike Jones and his city slickers and cocktails for two.

Ernie Wise26:17

Yeah.

Presenter26:20

Malga.

Presenter26:20

So after Eric's death, Ernie, you had to pick yourself up and dust yourself off and go out.

Ernie Wise26:25

And start all over again, exactly.

Presenter26:26

Well, hello.

Ernie Wise26:27

Which I, yes. Well, I said to myself, I've got to do an act of some description, a bookable act.

Ernie Wise26:33

So I put together about uh an hour and twenty minutes of all I remembered, with knee-deep and dazers and uh all the jokes I remember, everything.

Ernie Wise26:41

And I went to Australia and did some cabaret in nineteen eighty five. I went round the cabaret spot. Everybody said, Oh, aren't you brave? And those tough audiences out there, they weren't tough at all. They were English people. They were full of reminiscence and uh they wanted to talk about Flanagan and Allen and all.

Presenter26:54

And again,

Presenter26:56

But you did uh try something brand new on your own in the end, didn't you? You went into a West End show.

Ernie Wise27:01

My greatest achievement. Next to singing in the rain.

Ernie Wise27:04

What happened was that I got this script.

Ernie Wise27:06

And to do the mystery of Edwin Drood, which is Charles Dickens. And I got the script.

Ernie Wise27:12

Big thick script and a musical score like you've uh never heard before. A small opera, you know. And I learnt the words and I learnt the music.'Cause I can learn that easier than the words. I can learn music and lyrics much easier than words. And I s spent five weeks rehearsing it. We went on at the Savoy Theatre.

Speaker 127:15

Never.

Ernie Wise27:33

And it came off after ten weeks, and I was broken hearted, because I never got chance.

Ernie Wise27:38

Till actually get a hold of it.

Presenter27:40

But what about all the other offers? I mean lots of Panto offers, but

Ernie Wise27:43

No, I don't want to do that, no. I get offered pantomime, but I don't want to be straight man to everybody else.

Presenter27:43

Not

Presenter27:47

Hmm.

Ernie Wise27:47

I don't want to be um

Ernie Wise27:49

What is it, the Mayor or something, you know?

Presenter27:52

And you will

Ernie Wise27:52

And you want battering hard up, you know, and all that.

Presenter27:54

And and you want the star dressing room too, huh?

Ernie Wise27:56

Well, that's a snag, isn't it? That's the snag, you see. I have to

Ernie Wise28:01

Key maintain my stature. I think that's very important.

Ernie Wise28:05

I don't want.

Ernie Wise28:07

People to say, oh, what a shame. Look at him. Why can't he implain learner? God, he must need the money and all that. I don't really want that. So, what do what do you call it? Pity, I suppose. It's pride.

Presenter28:15

It's pride, isn't it? But it's pride, yeah, yeah. It's not that you need the money, is it? It's just because you want to pay a lot more.

Ernie Wise28:16

It's right, yeah, yeah.

Ernie Wise28:19

I want to go on working, but I want to maintain my position. And as you say, it is pride. But I'll tell you this much.

Ernie Wise28:27

If I was broke, I would

Presenter28:28

Or do it? Record number seven.

Ernie Wise28:31

Well, as I'm um

Ernie Wise28:35

november twenty seventh.

Ernie Wise28:36

If you want to send me a card.

Ernie Wise28:38

S

Ernie Wise28:39

There's a very nostalgic number which is I always like.

Ernie Wise28:44

It's the sort of thing that you sing at can sing at the end of a show, and it's called The Part Is Over.

Speaker 428:49

What is over?

Speaker 428:53

It's time to call it a day.

Speaker 128:53

Time to call it a day.

Speaker 428:57

No matter how you pretend, you knew it would end this way.

Speaker 128:57

Weather hot

Speaker 128:59

Seven

Speaker 129:01

You knew it would have been.

Speaker 429:05

It's time to wind up.

Speaker 429:09

The masquerade

Presenter29:12

Judy Holiday and the party's over.

Presenter29:15

What do you think of em these days, Ernie? To day's comedians. Do you have a favourite?

Ernie Wise29:19

I think Russ Abbott is uh the best commercial comedian we've got today.

Ernie Wise29:23

On television, because he's good looking, he's got a lot going for him. He's excellent. The other ones.

Ernie Wise29:30

They're just a little bit too um rude for me. I mean, it's not my generation. And they do talk about very personal things that I find a little bit embarrassing. I watched Fry and Lauria the other day. No, I like them. I think they're very good.

Ernie Wise29:43

And then suddenly they come out with something that frightens the living daylights out of me. I mean, something.

Presenter29:48

But just a bit risque for you.

Ernie Wise29:50

I'tis to me, yeah, when they talk about personal, sexual, intimate things, I find

Presenter29:51

Yeah.

Ernie Wise29:55

I don't like that sort of conversation on television.

Presenter29:57

What about cannon and ball and little bar?

Ernie Wise29:59

Well, yeah, they're broader. They're much broader. I thought Cannonball were actually going to steal our crown, because that's what we're all waiting for. Somebody to knock us off our perch. But they've lost their way a little bit. They still haven't conquered television. So the crown.

Presenter30:11

So the crown is still up for grabs in your mind. What do you think the definition of it is? It's impossible really, but it it is that kind of interdependence of a duo. It's not the fusion of the two identities.

Ernie Wise30:13

I think it is, yes.

Ernie Wise30:19

Well

Ernie Wise30:21

I think the personalities were right. I think we were well balanced. I think we shared it. I was very much the song and dance man. Eric was very much the comedian.

Ernie Wise30:29

And I think we had an edge on all the people.

Ernie Wise30:32

In the fact that we could move well. Eric and I were reasonably good dancers. We could bluff it. We believed it. We came down and we were Fred Astair and Ginger Rogers or all these people. And we did. We could kid the people that we were that good.

Presenter30:45

Nice little movers.

Ernie Wise30:46

We were I was a lovely little movie. Eric used to say I was a lovely little mover. I was on casters. He was.

Ernie Wise30:52

And we worked with and you see, even we could make people look good. Glenda Jackson and uh

Presenter30:57

Have you have you ever been back to those bare old BBC rehearsal rooms in Acton where you two concocted so much of that terrific material?

Ernie Wise31:05

Um

Ernie Wise31:07

Yes. And every time I pass it those memories come back.

Ernie Wise31:11

Here you get this mixture of the great joy of it and the great sadness of it. It's a shame.

Ernie Wise31:17

But

Ernie Wise31:19

I've got my health and strength, and I have to continue.

Ernie Wise31:22

And uh I also have to continue my career. At the same time I have to uh continue more c I'm

Ernie Wise31:29

Not all there, there's something missing.

Presenter31:32

And I'm very happy to see that you've got as your last record what will inevitably bring back all the memories for everybody.

Ernie Wise31:38

Yeah, we have to do the little dance first. We do the little dance first and then we go into bring me sunshine.

Ernie Wise31:45

Bring me sunshine.

Ernie Wise31:48

Ain't your smile

Ernie Wise31:51

Bring me laughter.

Ernie Wise31:54

All the while.

Ernie Wise31:57

In this world where we live, there should be more happiness, so much joy you can give to each brand new bright tomorrow. Make me happy.

Presenter32:11

Eric Morecombe and Ernie Wise and Bring Me Sunshine. I don't know about you, but it brings tears to my eyes.

Presenter32:17

It's smashing to hear it again. Well, now you're you're patiently gonna have a terrible time on this island'cause there's not an idle bone in your body and yet you're stranded there.

Ernie Wise32:26

Well, I would as long as I've got something I can work with, am I allowed anything like uh practical things like uh hammer and chisel and nails? I mean, you've got to have nails, you can't survive without a nail.

Presenter32:33

Some of you

Presenter32:35

No, nothing practical to be able to do it.

Ernie Wise32:36

Oh, nothing like that at all. So I don't have any uh so it we're we're down to sharp stones, are we?

Presenter32:37

So I

Presenter32:41

You're down to sharpstones and whatever you can lay your hands on. First of all, you've got to lay your hands on one of these eight records that is more important to you than any of the others. Which one would it be?

Ernie Wise32:50

I think we'd come back to Bring Me Sunshine, I think. It's got to be, hasn't it? I mean, been our theme tune.

Presenter32:54

Yeah.

Ernie Wise32:56

All our lives and well, a long, long time. We used to have two of a kind, but uh Bring Me Sunshine is the big one, so it's the one that gets the round of applause. So I'd have to sing that, Dancing Round the Island.

Presenter33:06

And a book. You've got the Bible and you've got Shakespeare.

Ernie Wise33:08

Well, I'd like Charles Dickens, uh the Mystery of Edwin Drude, purely and simply because I lived with those characters in at the Savoy Theatre, and I seemed to know them all personally. They were created, so obviously, uh, reading the book they would relive. And I I'd like to I've never actually read it, would you believe? I might rewrite I might put a few jokes in.

Presenter33:29

And a luxury now. Come on, nothing practical. It's got to be something to feed your soul, something to make you feel wonderful.

Ernie Wise33:32

Something to figure out.

Ernie Wise33:35

Gotta have my yellow roll tries.

Presenter33:37

Yeah.

Ernie Wise33:37

Well, I still got my yellow rolls rice and I would sit in that and think of the good times.

Presenter33:41

Ernie Wise, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island disc.

Ernie Wise33:44

Thank you, sir.

Speaker 133:53

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.