John Thaw

Speaker 30:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 30:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen ninety, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:29

My castaway this week is an actor, the son of a long distance lorry driver. He was born and brought up in Lancashire. He entered drama school at the age of sixteen, since when he's rarely been out of work.

Presenter0:41

His versatility as a character actor he's appeared at the Royal Court Theatre and with the Royal Shakespeare Company, as well as playing many film and television roles has won him a distinguished professional reputation. He owes his national popularity, however, to two roles, the rough, tough Jack Regan in the Sweeney and the troubled but likable Inspector Morse.

Presenter1:02

The creator of these much loved policemen avoids the stardom his admirers would thrust upon him. Professional satisfaction is what he seeks. Away from the cameras, he prefers a quiet life, laced, if possible, with plenty of classical music. He is John

Presenter1:19

In other words, John, there's rather more of Morse in you than Regan, is there?

John Thaw1:22

Oh, most certainly, yes.

Presenter1:23

Do do you have a a preference for one of those characters over the other at all?

John Thaw1:28

Well, at this stage of my life, most certainly Morse, because it's less energetic than doing a steely Jack Regan, you know.

Presenter1:35

He leaped over a lot of walls and raced around a lot, old Regan, didn't he?

John Thaw1:38

Yes, and when people ask me why don't I do it again, I say I'm too old, so more suits me fine.

Presenter1:44

Do people write in for Morse's music that's often played I mean, the minute he finds a body there's some music playing something?

John Thaw1:50

I do get letters from people if if there's a nice, say, Beethoven quartet playing as they find the body, you know, in the cupboard or whatever, you invariably get letters saying what was that music, you know, when Morse found the body. It was lovely, where can I get it? and what label's it on.

John Thaw2:06

So, um yes, it's done there, which I think is marvellous because people wouldn't

John Thaw2:11

Rush out and say, Can I have Beethoven's quartet in D or C or whatever? Just off the top of their head. They just.

Presenter2:18

What about your own love of of classical music? Where and when did that begin?

John Thaw2:22

That began when I was at Rada.

John Thaw2:25

I was a great friend and indeed later shared a flat with Tom Courtney.

John Thaw2:30

We were doing Goethe's Faust. Tom was playing Faust, I was playing Mephistopheles.

John Thaw2:36

We both of us used to rehearse at Tom's flat and got in a terrible state about it for some reason.

John Thaw2:41

And Tom said, Why don't you listen to this? and he put on Sir Baylas's first symphony.

John Thaw2:47

And he said, see if this can sort of do anything for you in terms of seeing that character, Mephistopheles, and you know, where he's come from and where he's going.

John Thaw2:57

And I thought a lot of nonsense. Anyway, I sat down and Tom put this record on.

John Thaw3:02

And it I was just transfixed. It all slutted into place.

Presenter3:07

But classical music had meant nothing to you before now.

John Thaw3:08

No. I mean, I was of an age where you listen to family favourites and you might hear a bit of Enigma variations or something or or Catalin Ferrier, but no, it didn't mean anything until that point and it it was almost it just changed my life that day, really.

Presenter3:22

It was downhill all the way after that.

John Thaw3:24

Absolutely.

Presenter3:25

We we better have the first record, I think. What's the first one you're taking to the island?

John Thaw3:29

Well, it's not the Sebalius' first symphony, in fact, it's the fifth symphony, which I love, and I can tell you, between you and I, I conduct the last bit of it when I'm on my own.

John Thaw3:39

Pretend not.

John Thaw3:40

Don't carry analysis.

Presenter4:41

Part of Sibelia Symphony No. five in E flat major, played by the Berlin Philharmonic, conducted by Herbert von Karian, and sometimes by John Thor. Another fascinating thing about you, of course, apart from your love of music, is your age. You're forty eight, aren't you?

John Thaw4:56

Four eight, yeah.

Presenter4:57

Are people constantly surprised to discover that?

John Thaw5:00

Yes, they are. They are. In fact, I must tell you, one of the crew on Morse recently said to my driver, he said.

John Thaw5:07

Oh, John's not bad for his age, is he? And he said, Well, how old do you think he is? He said, Well,

John Thaw5:12

Got to be fifty eight, an' he, fifty nine.

Presenter5:15

It's worrying that. I mean, has it always been the case?

John Thaw5:17

I have always looked I was born old, I think, really, or born looking old.

Presenter5:21

Have you gone prematurely grey as well, or did you?

John Thaw5:24

I did. I went I started to go grey. In fact, if you looked at all the Sweeneys you'd see the progression that happened during that Sweeney time. And just after the Sweeney I went totally white. It's a hereditary thing, really. My dad went white when he was about thirty five.

Presenter5:39

It's the face as well, though, isn't it? I mean, it's got that lived in look.

John Thaw5:43

I guess it has.

Presenter5:46

I take it you're not vain, mister Thor

John Thaw5:48

No, no, not at all.

Presenter5:49

Not at all.

Presenter5:50

But you do these days get tagged with that it's an awful phrase, isn't it? The thinking woman's crumpet, they've called you. Does it make you curl up, eh?

John Thaw5:58

Yes, I don't know what it means really, but uh yes, I've heard it. They might as well be talking about somebody else. I really don't know how it applies to me.

Presenter6:05

But well, I think the truth is that that women quite fancy Inspector Morse, uh probably more than than Jack Regan, actually.

John Thaw6:12

Oh, yeah, I think so. Um because Morse is a very he's a very gentle, caring, uh sensitive man, I would think anybody would actually like him.

Presenter6:20

What does your wife, Sheila Hancock, think about you being a bit of a sex symbol?

John Thaw6:25

She laughs. I'm just like like the girls, my daughters laugh, you know, they just think, you know in fact, sometimes they look at me

John Thaw6:33

washing up or something and say, There he is, the sex symbol, you know.

John Thaw6:37

No, I they just ridicule me, basically.

Presenter6:40

Shall we have your second record?

John Thaw6:42

Yes, um my second record is Dame Eva Turner singing an aria from Turundos in Questa Reggia.

John Thaw6:49

I first heard this particular aria before I was married to Sheila. I had a flat in Kensington and

John Thaw6:55

Periodically I used to rush about and clean it, you see, thinking it's about time, you know.

John Thaw7:01

So I remember one day I was.

John Thaw7:03

Scurrying of round is flat with a hoover, etc.

John Thaw7:06

And I had the radio on, as I inevitably do.

John Thaw7:09

And suddenly this above the row of the Hoover I could hear this this noise. And I just sat transfixed by this piece, just the power of it and and her wonderful voice and presence.

Presenter8:24

Dame Eva Turner singing the aria Inquesta Reggae from Puccini's Turundotte with the London Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Sir John Barberoli, and that was recorded at Covent Garden in nineteen thirty seven.

Presenter8:36

Did you always want to be an actor, John, when you were young?

John Thaw8:40

Yes, I always had a shall we say a gift for acting the goat, as they say up there.

Presenter8:46

You were a show off, you mean?

John Thaw8:47

Yes, I think I was, yes. An exhibitionist. I I in fact left school uh not planning to be an actor. I didn't really know what I was going to do. The nearest I got to it was wanting to be probably an an electrical engineer.

John Thaw9:01

Which seemed a you know a good safe job to do.

John Thaw9:04

But in fact I went straight from school on to the fruit and vegetable market in Manchester.

Presenter9:09

Your mother left home, didn't she, when you were quite small?

John Thaw9:12

Yeah, she did. Yeah.

Presenter9:13

She never came back.

John Thaw9:14

No, she didn't well, she came back once once or twice and left again, so I don't count those times.

Presenter9:20

And you've never seen her since, or heard from her?

John Thaw9:23

She's dead now, bless her. But uh no, I saw her once in nineteen uh would have would be nineteen sixty, I guess, sixty one.

John Thaw9:31

And that's it.

Presenter9:33

You had a younger brother, didn't you? So there was there was you and him, and you were about six when when she left. So who looked after you then if your father was a a long distance lorry driver?

John Thaw9:42

We lived in a council flat and the people above us I remember their names very well the Bells, Frank Bell.

John Thaw9:50

Gladys Bell.

John Thaw9:52

Uh they used to look after us. They'd come down and make sure we were in bed at the the appointed hour.

John Thaw9:58

And uh Gladyswood.

John Thaw10:01

leave us a glass of milk and biscuits, and uh that she turn all the lights off. And you know, we it was nice for us in so far as we knew that Gladys and Frank were just above, if if there was any threat.

Presenter10:12

Did you ever go with your dad in the cab?

John Thaw10:14

Yes, I did yeah, a few times and went to London.

John Thaw10:17

I thought it was very exciting.

Presenter10:19

Big adventure

John Thaw10:19

Big adventure. Oh, absolutely. You know, that age. But yes, I loved it.

Presenter10:24

But looking back on it all, I mean

Presenter10:26

Obviously it wasn't a a completely normal childhood, but I mean, do you think of it as being tough or deprived, or do you?

Presenter10:32

Regret the childhood you had, or

John Thaw10:36

No, I don't, because what we did have was a lot of love from my father and people like the Bells and

John Thaw10:43

My dad's family.

John Thaw10:45

So we felt wanted and loved, which I think is the most important thing.

John Thaw10:49

And I know that there were people with

John Thaw10:52

whole families, for want of a better word, who were far unhappier than I was.

Presenter10:57

But out of all of that to tell them all that you wanted to become an actor was quite an ambitious thing to propose, wasn't it?

John Thaw11:04

Yes, I think it stunned them a little. There was a an image of actors being, for want of a better word, middle class snobs, do you know?

John Thaw11:14

Posh, posh, posh, that's it.

John Thaw11:16

And people like us, people like Gors, didn't go into that world and I thought, well, damn it, I've got a a talent, I can have a go, I can only fail. And that was my dad's attitude, in fact, was if you blow it, then you just come back to Manchester and you carry on, you go and work b back on the fruit market or something, but give it a go.

Presenter11:36

Is he still alive?

John Thaw11:38

Yes, he is, thank God. Yeah, he's

Presenter11:39

I suppose he's got used to your success by now.

John Thaw11:42

I think so. He doesn't he accepts it, uh, takes it for granted.

Presenter11:46

Let's have record number three.

John Thaw11:48

Record number three is Elgar.

John Thaw11:50

I love dearly, and I would have to have Elgar with me on that island.

John Thaw11:55

And what better than uh Jacqueline Dupre as well, a supreme musician.

John Thaw12:00

Playing Elgar's cello concerto.

Presenter13:01

The opening of Elgar's cello concerto in E minor, opus eighty five, played by Jacqueline Dupre, with the London Symphony Orchestra, conducted by Sir John Barbaroli.

Presenter13:12

So you came to London, John, in nineteen fifty eight?

Presenter13:16

What did you look like then?

John Thaw13:18

I looked like uh what used to be called a teddy boy, I guess. And I very proudly wore a ten inch jeans, I remember ten inches at the bottom, that is.

John Thaw13:27

And a draped jacket and

Presenter13:28

And the big shoes.

John Thaw13:28

Uh

John Thaw13:29

Yes, I had crepe sales shoes, all that business. But of course to me, I mean it sounds awful now, and it I'm sure it was then, but uh

Presenter13:36

It was then, but

John Thaw13:38

To me that was all I had. That was my wardrobe. That's what I walked around in in Manchester. But of course everybody else was looking at me like I was a Martian, you can imagine.

Presenter13:49

What did you sound like?

John Thaw13:50

I sounded like any other sixteen-year-old Mancunian, I guess.

John Thaw13:55

I very much like that, you know, and uh what are we doing next? Are we doing Othello next? What?

Presenter14:00

Did someone say to you you ought to get rid of that?

John Thaw14:03

Well, yes, it was uh it was understood that by going to to Radha you wanted to do something about your accent, so uh yes that was page one really was to get rid of that.

Presenter14:12

Did you find it easy? Did you have elocution lessons, or did you just flatten it out yourself?

John Thaw14:16

No, rather, of course, you have uh speech uh therapy and uh voice lessons, the production of the voice, etcetera.

Presenter14:23

So what did they think of our John when he went back home?

John Thaw14:27

Well, my brother, I remember, was uh his word we've used it before earlier was posh. I sounded posh. Or why was I trying to sound posh?

John Thaw14:36

I tried to ignore those encouraging remarks and carried on.

Presenter14:40

But did it alienate you from them? I mean, did they.

John Thaw14:43

No, I don't think it alienated them. I do think they were thinking, what is he turning into? I do think they were a bit worried.

Presenter14:43

See now.

John Thaw14:50

But I you know, I I think you know, there was still of course love and affection between the three of us, but uh as I say, there was a little apprehensive

Presenter14:53

Yeah, I

Presenter15:00

Suspicious, yeah.

John Thaw15:01

Yeah.

Presenter15:02

So eventually you set up this flat with Tom Courtenay, which you mentioned, and and in your spare room you raced model cars, yes?

John Thaw15:09

We had a huge spare room in this very big flat, in fact.

John Thaw15:13

And I think it was Tom who obviously never had a train set or a electric car when he was a kid, so he went out and bought himself a sort of scale electrics thing, the I think the biggest he could find in London.

John Thaw15:25

And we laid it out all over this big spare room.

John Thaw15:28

But I think we only used it about twice, you know, like like kids, typical, we used it three times, got bored with this these racing cars going round and round.

John Thaw15:37

And packed it away and left it. I think the dustman ended up at

Presenter15:41

But you you obviously look back on those years as having been a good time.

John Thaw15:44

Oh yes, it was a good time.

Presenter15:45

And you you carried off a few prizes, didn't you, in the end?

John Thaw15:50

Yes, I was lucky I got the Liverpool Playhouse Award from Rada, which was a year's contract at Liverpool Rep.

John Thaw15:56

And uh the Vambrow Wood.

Presenter15:59

But the the Playhouse Award, the Liverpool Playhouse Award, was presumably very important because, as you say, that guarantees you work.

John Thaw16:04

Yeah, so I didn't have to worry about getting an agent or getting a job or auditioning or sending off letters and photographs and things. I just went literally from

John Thaw16:13

From Rada on the Friday to Liverpool on on the Monday.

Presenter16:18

And you've rarely been out of work since?

John Thaw16:20

Thank God no.

Presenter16:22

Shall we pause there for some more music? What's it to be?

John Thaw16:25

The next one again relates to that time. It's Schubert's Quintet in C.

John Thaw16:32

Tommy Courtenay got me on to Schubert, and as it were, I took over from him. But this I love, and it's got Pablika Sales playing cello, who who I love dearly. I love the cello.

John Thaw16:43

And I don't think there's possibly not a nicer piece of music I know.

Presenter17:44

Part of the Adaggio from Schubert's Quintet in C major, Opus a hundred and sixty three, played by Isaac Stern, Alexander Schneider, Milton Catims, Pablo Casals, and Paul Tortelier.

Presenter17:56

I have a suspicion, John, that your music will make you weep on this island as much as bring you comfort, will it?

John Thaw18:01

More than likely, I would think. I think most of these things have that in common, that uh if they catch me at the right time, uh there's buckets of tears.

Presenter18:09

How will you manage on your own, do you think? Any good at it?

John Thaw18:12

It doesn't worry me at all. I I quite like solitude. So that element wouldn't worry me. I'm a little worried. I'm not very much a sort of.

John Thaw18:21

Do it yourself, man.

John Thaw18:22

I can change a an electric plug or something, but that that's about it. So I don't know how I'd cope, basically.

Presenter18:28

Can you cook?

John Thaw18:30

Yes, that I can do, that I can do. But very simple cooking, not only sort of cordon bleu, but I can uh survive food-wise, yeah.

Presenter18:37

Are you a Sunday lunch cook for the family?

John Thaw18:38

Yes, exactly.

Presenter18:41

A lot of women you live with.

John Thaw18:43

Yes, I'm surrounded by them. What can I say? I have three daughters.

John Thaw18:47

And uh and Sheila Hancock, my wife.

Presenter18:50

I think a lot of people will have read, will know that that you and Sheila parted for a few months a couple of years ago. Um it was obviously a a separation which worked. I mean it it refreshed the marriage.

John Thaw19:01

Absolutely. It wasn't the sort of separation where

John Thaw19:05

Roman said, Well, we must separate uh and uh

John Thaw19:09

Then we'll come back and it will be even better, as it were. It it wasn't done in a sort of cold way in that sense.

John Thaw19:16

Sheila had been ill.

John Thaw19:18

and just wanted to be alone, just wanted to or needed to be on her own.

John Thaw19:24

Now

John Thaw19:25

It w it was a question of when we get back together. It wasn't a question of if we get back together. It was just Sheila needed that space and that time.

John Thaw19:33

to adjust, you know, to being told that she had cancer.

Presenter19:35

Bitch.

Presenter19:37

Did did you blame yourself at all in all that? Did you feel that you were less than supportive in that situation?

John Thaw19:42

Well, uh don't forget, uh doing doing Morse where I wo and I I was doing Morse at that time.

John Thaw19:48

Well, you work long hours, they're not regular hours by any means.

John Thaw19:53

And then one has to do a certain amount of work when you get home for the next day.

John Thaw19:59

Of course I wasn't as supportive as uh as I would have liked to have been, but uh that was the situation at that time. Therefore the for Sheila the only answer was to

John Thaw20:09

to be on her own and and sort it out herself, you know.

Presenter20:14

And she's done that.

John Thaw20:14

Absolutely, thank Lordia.

Presenter20:16

And y you you're back together again, as we say. And how how have you changed then? Have you tried to alter your work pattern so that you couldn't arrive at that point again?

John Thaw20:26

I don't work so hard. I don't uh work to the exclusion of of everything else, not least Sheila.

Presenter20:33

Which you did before?

John Thaw20:34

Possibly, sometimes. Yes, I did. I did. And conversely, Sheila

John Thaw20:38

Now accepts that I am in a job that does require possibly more commitment than

John Thaw20:45

than going into the West End to do a a three hour show every night.

Presenter20:49

But you've learnt to say no, basically, when the phone rings and people offer you work.

John Thaw20:52

Prior to this series of morphs I didn't work for what five months. I did nothing quite deliberately.

Presenter20:58

And and you've given up drinking as well, haven't you?

John Thaw20:59

That's right.

Presenter21:00

Do how's that changed you?

John Thaw21:02

Not a lot really. I don't know.

John Thaw21:05

I don I honestly don't think it has, but anyway, I don't.

Presenter21:08

W was it hard to give it up?

John Thaw21:09

No, I found it was just like giving up sugar, really.

Presenter21:13

I think we ought to have your next record there.

John Thaw21:15

Well, we've just been talking about her, and I'd like to take to my island my my dear wife.

John Thaw21:21

Sheila Hancock doing Little Girls from Annie, which was a musical a few years back and which I love. I loved the musical. I I used to be in tears every time I saw it.

John Thaw21:32

And I thought Sheila was brilliant. And uh of course she's singing Little Girls, which

John Thaw21:38

It's not she's not singing about her girls, but uh it I just thought it was quite sweet.

Speaker 421:44

If I ring little necks, surely I will get an aquatic

Speaker 421:51

Some women are drapping with diamonds.

Speaker 421:56

Some women are driven with poems.

Speaker 422:00

Lucky me, lucky me, look at what I'm dreading where it for girls!

Presenter22:11

Sheila Hancock singing Little Girls from Annie. Did she know you were going to take that record to the island?

John Thaw22:17

No, she didn't. No, she didn't. She thought I was going to take something totally different.

Presenter22:23

So let's talk about the Sweeney. I mean, it it was very realistic, wasn't it? Did you do a lot of research for it?

John Thaw22:29

I uh made a point of uh meeting a lot of policemen, obviously, from the Flying Squad and other areas, and went to Scotland Yard and and made a couple of very good friends, uh police policemen, friends, uh I still have.

Presenter22:43

So the police liked it, did they? as a series?

John Thaw22:45

Yes, absolutely. On the whole, yeah, they did. I think it's true to say that uh the majority of them thought it was uh the most realistic they've been to date.

Presenter22:55

It was quite violent, wasn't it?

John Thaw22:56

Well, it was, but um

John Thaw22:59

You know, as I said at the time, if we'd have been

Presenter22:59

Yeah.

John Thaw23:02

Doing a series about

John Thaw23:04

the traffic wardens, then I would say it was full of gratuitous violence. But I mean, by the nature of the job, the Flying Squad uh meet, sadly, a lot of violence in their job.

Presenter23:14

And use a lot of violence?

John Thaw23:17

or in self-defense.

John Thaw23:18

Milad.

Presenter23:21

It's the programme, isn't it, that people always mention when they talk about violence on television? They always say, Look at the Sweeney when they're arguing against violence on television.

John Thaw23:30

Yes, yes they do. Um that's one of the programmes. I must say i there are certain programmes now on television that that I would say are more violent in the sense that they glamorize violence, which I really believe the Sweeney never did. It was made by people who come from documentary.

John Thaw23:50

And the way they shot it was a sort of in a realistic way. We tried to be real and to show that it wasn't actually a very pleasant thing, and people did get hurt and bruised and cut.

John Thaw24:02

Whereas some of these American things you see, it seems to me that it they glamorize the fact that you can just shoot somebody in the street or, you know, get behind a car wheel and and

John Thaw24:12

Run a few people down, and that's fine, because they're villains. We never had any of that stuff.

Presenter24:17

So in the end it taught you a kind of sympathy for the police, did it, rather than any kind of distaste for their work?

John Thaw24:20

Then he kind of

John Thaw24:22

Oh, absolutely. I realize what a horrible job it was. I mean, it's a job I could never do and would never do in a million years. You know, I have nothing but but respect for some of those guys.

Presenter24:32

Going back to the business of people confusing the deactor and the role, I mean, do you find still, or did you find then, that that people were worried that you were Jack Regan? They kind of made made sure they didn't cross you when they saw you up the corner in a pump or something?

John Thaw24:45

I think the truth of the matter is they weren't quite sure how much was acting and how much was me, John Thor. So discretion took the better form of valour and they they left me alone.

Presenter24:57

But the Morse factor is now taking over, so that you're approachable now, are you?

John Thaw25:02

Yes, I I I guess that people are they feel freer to come up and

John Thaw25:06

Talk to me.

Presenter25:07

The only problem is they don't know his name, do they? We always call him Morse, has he got a Christian name?

John Thaw25:12

He has got one. I'm not allowed to divulge it. And it it will never be divulged. But he does have one. I have it from the uh the horse's mouth, Colin Dexter.

Presenter25:20

Why can it not be divulged?

John Thaw25:22

Because Morse is embarrassed by it and I think that's quite that's good enough for me in in in the terms of the series that uh he won't diverge it because he's embarrassed.

Presenter25:31

It's a kind of archy bald, is it or?

John Thaw25:34

Yes, it that's you're close, close.

Presenter25:38

So we have record number zix.

John Thaw25:40

Talking about Morse, I recently went to see uh The Magic Flute at the English National Opera and I'd never seen it before. The reason I went was because we were doing an episode of Morse which revolved around the performance of the magic flute or a a rendition of the magic flute.

John Thaw25:57

And so I thought I'd better see it. And so I went and I was totally knocked out by it. It was a lovely evening.

Presenter27:03

Part of the overture to Mozart's magic flute played by the Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Otto Klemperer. We haven't John Thor mentioned Home to Roost yet, your your sitcom. Um that must have come as quite a relief after the Sweeney.

John Thaw27:17

Uh yes, yes, it was, and uh a pleasure to do.

Presenter27:20

But were you surprised to be asked to do comedy?

John Thaw27:23

Not really. People in the business think of me uh as a comedy actor, if if they need it, you know.

Presenter27:29

Yeah.

Presenter27:30

Which do you find more difficult, the the theatre or or television? Can you compare them?

John Thaw27:35

Comedy on television, I think.

John Thaw27:38

is the hardest thing to do, in in my experience, because it's a sort of awful halfway house between theatre and and television. You have a live audience.

John Thaw27:50

And if you don't get a laugh from that audience there, it can throw you and you think, my God, what have I done wrong? And yet you suddenly wake up to the fact, my God, there's a camera on me, I'm in close up, you know, I better keep going.

Speaker 428:03

The

Presenter28:03

Uh

John Thaw28:03

So it for me, and I know for a lot a lot of mates of mine who do comedy, it it is a very stressful situation. I think it's possibly the most stressful uh situation an actor can be in, in fact.

Presenter28:14

So you're you're not one of those actors who considers television work uh a second class to the uh the purity of treading the board?

John Thaw28:21

Oh my god, no, no, no, no. Some of the finest, in my opinion, the best actors in the business are are top television and comedy actors in in inverted comments. It's a very demanding medium.

Presenter28:34

The other difference, of course, is that that the theatre may be able to give you a reputation, but television makes you a star, doesn't it?

John Thaw28:41

Yes, I I guess it does. It it certainly does. But it's a question of what what your priorities are as an actor. Do you want to entertain as many people as possible? Or do you want to play to six hundred people a night on Shaftesbury Avenue?

Presenter28:55

But if you end up and ta make the choice of playing to a great many people, that's fine, but as I say, stardom comes with it, and that's something that you really don't want, isn't it?

John Thaw29:04

It's something, to be honest, I could do without. I could live very happily without it.

John Thaw29:10

in inverted commas again, attention. But it is sadly part of the job, sadly for me, part of the job. It it's something that goes with it and you're not allowed to just uh entertain people for an hour or two. You uh you have to uh

John Thaw29:24

Do other things.

Presenter29:25

The occupational hazard of it all.

Presenter29:28

Record number seven.

John Thaw29:30

Number seven is uh Elizabeth Schwartzkopf. She and I have a joke that uh if I ever

John Thaw29:36

Fell in love with another lady would have to be Elizabeth Schwartzkopf. She's the only threat to to Sheila that I know. And she's singing one of Strauss's four last songs.

Speaker 430:14

Change your fault.

Speaker 430:17

So I'm seeing your day.

Speaker 430:32

Turmacht in the

Presenter30:47

Elizabeth Schwarzkopf singing one of Richard Strauss's four last songs, Beim Schlaffengen, with the Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra conducted by George Sell.

Presenter30:57

So, John, there are more morses in the making at the moment.

John Thaw31:00

That's right.

Presenter31:00

But what's what's the longer term professional ambition? Do you have one?

John Thaw31:04

No, I I never have. I'm one of those people. I just um I've never set goals for myself.

Presenter31:10

But you haven't played any of the great classical rugs. It's a fairly unclassical career, really, isn't it?

John Thaw31:15

I do have a little regret.

Presenter31:16

But they're still all there for you to play. I mean, surely there must be one that you

John Thaw31:21

Well, I

John Thaw31:22

I would like to play Lear one day, I would say that. And the Argo, I'd like to play that. Um.

John Thaw31:28

Hopefully I I would do it w with Manchester for the Royal Exchange, possibly nineteen ninety two.

Presenter31:35

Sounds like quite a firm plan.

John Thaw31:38

Well, it's i if everything works out, it is something that I would like to do, let's put it that way.

Presenter31:43

But no more policemen.

John Thaw31:45

Well, I've got more to do this year and in fact I've agreed to do another series next year.

Presenter31:51

But as you pace about the desert island, what will you look back on as your best piece of professional work?

John Thaw31:58

I think

John Thaw32:00

If I'm totally objective about it, it would have to be more s because it's a quality product.

John Thaw32:07

for want of a better word.

John Thaw32:09

And I acted.

John Thaw32:10

pretty well, and we get good scripts, and yet it is also very popular w with the public. So all those things coming together, I would I would say would give me the most pleasure.

Speaker 332:22

Last record.

John Thaw32:24

The last record is the Saint Matthew Passion.

John Thaw32:27

of Bach and

John Thaw32:30

It's an area.

John Thaw32:32

Barmadik, meing got um I I just

John Thaw32:36

I think it's a great piece of music.

Presenter32:38

And it makes you cry.

John Thaw32:39

It does, indeed.

Presenter33:40

The aria E Bamer dische Mein Gott from Bach St. Matthew Passion, sung by Margo Herfken, with the Stuttgart Chamber Orchestra conducted by Karl Münchinger.

Presenter33:50

So one of the eight, John, you have to choose which is it?

John Thaw33:53

It would have to be the the Matthew Passion.

Presenter33:57

I thought Schubert was the most beautiful piece of music ever written.

John Thaw34:00

Yes, but the it is one of them. But no, the Matthew Passion has uh it's got

John Thaw34:08

all sorts of wonderful colour and richness and uh the different voices of course.

Presenter34:13

and a book to add to the Bible and Shakspeare.

John Thaw34:16

The very first book I ever remember hearing being read to on radio was The Wind in the Willows, and I've read it to my daughters over the years, and I've even picked it up and looked at it myself when I haven't had to read it.

John Thaw34:28

And I think it's a charming, lovely book, and I would love to look to take that with me.

Presenter34:33

And a luxury.

John Thaw34:36

About a year ago.

John Thaw34:38

She ra and I suddenly started wondering why we used to have terrible stiff necks.

John Thaw34:43

At the end of a

Presenter34:43

Never

John Thaw34:44

a Sunday, sitting about reading Sunday papers, etcetera. Then we discovered basically we'd had these horrible chairs.

John Thaw34:51

for at least ten years possibly the most uncomfortable chairs in London.

John Thaw34:56

So we went out the next day and ordered.

John Thaw35:00

six, would you believe, arm chairs. And what I would like to take is is a very, very soft

John Thaw35:09

comfortable arm chair.

Presenter35:10

John Thor, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island discs.

John Thaw35:14

It's my pleasure, thank you.

Speaker 335:23

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.