Robin Knox-Johnston

Speaker 30:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 30:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen ninety, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:29

My castaway this week is a sailor. Twenty two years ago he put to sea in a race he was not considered likely to win. Ten months later he returned to a hero's welcome, the only man to finish the course, and the first one to sail single handed nonstop round the world.

Presenter0:45

Since then he's spent much of his time at sea. A firm believer that ports rot ships and men, he's captured many other sailing firsts, including recently a voyage using only the navigational instruments of five hundred years ago. It took not only the courage of an adventurer, but the skill of a master mariner, too. He is Robin Knox Johnston.

Presenter1:05

Now, Robin, you are of course an ideal castaway, not least because you've bumped into a few desert islands uh in your time. Where are the best ones, would you say?

Robin Knox-Johnston1:13

What the softest ones to bump into.

Robin Knox-Johnston1:15

The best I've seen are probably off the coast of Tanzania because they look like tropical islands. They've got lovely white sandy beaches and palm trees and all the other nice things about them.

Robin Knox-Johnston1:25

I'm a bit worried about those ones though, because they are a bit overrun by flies that bite. So can I please choose a different island to those?

Presenter1:32

But do you think there is such a thing as the perfect one? Have you ever landed on one and thought, This is it, this is paradise?

Robin Knox-Johnston1:38

Yes. I mean, there's places in Scotland I've landed on I thought this is paradise. There's other ones off Africa I've found which I thought were lovely. In India you find some beautiful ones. But you see, I've never spent very long in the Pacific. I mean I've still yet to explore that, so I'm waiting to look at those ones.

Presenter1:52

When you think about your times out in the wild, as it were, d do you dream about peace and beauty on those kinds of islands, or do you dream about the the tempest and the danger? What is it you yearn for?

Robin Knox-Johnston2:04

When I go to sea, I certainly don't yearn for tempests and dangers. I mean, I go to sea'cause I like being at sea, and that's rather hard to explain briefly. Uh it's just the joy, I think, of being on your own in an ocean, which is always changing, and it's it is peaceful usually. I mean, the times when it's not so nice, but on the whole it's pretty good.

Presenter2:20

But when you're back on dry land and do you remember the dangerous moments and think, By golly, that was fun

Robin Knox-Johnston2:26

I think like most people, you know, I forget the very nasty bits, and that's why I keep going back.

Robin Knox-Johnston2:32

But yes, sometimes. I mean, really nasty stuff at sea is quite honestly terrifying, and it's not something you would deliberately go and throw yourself into. You'd avoid it if you possibly could. But you just have to accept, if you're going to be at sea, these things do happen, they do catch you out occasionally.

Robin Knox-Johnston2:49

And it's up to you to get through it somehow. But I don't go to sea looking for it.

Presenter2:53

Now I take it that music is extremely important to a lone yachtsman, is it?

Robin Knox-Johnston2:57

Well, I do have um a system on my boat so that I can sit in the cockpit and let the speakers blast out at me, yes, and and I play a lot of music on the boat, in fact.

Presenter3:05

So in that sense you you already know, unlike most of our castaways, what it is uh that you you need, what kind of music you need to feed you in your isolation, don't you?

Robin Knox-Johnston3:14

You see, but my problem was, you see, I've got a lot of tapes. Now you've restricted me to only eight. This made it very difficult.

Presenter3:20

This is true. What's the first one, then?

Robin Knox-Johnston3:22

Well, the first one's a piece of music that's it's the pastel by Beethoven, but

Robin Knox-Johnston3:26

When you actually listen to this particular piece, I mean, just lean back and think of the sea and just think of those waves just quietly, constantly moving. And I can listen to it at home and think of the sea, and that's why I like it.

Presenter4:34

Part of Beethoven's sixth symphony, the pastoral, played by the Berlin Philharmonic, conducted by Herbert von Carrion.

Presenter4:41

Tell me, Robin, about this voyage using five hundred year old instruments. This was you travelling in the wake, as it were, of Columbus, wasn't it?

Robin Knox-Johnston4:48

Yes, that's right. I've been getting very interested in the beginnings of navigation in the modern sense, celestial navigation. And of course he was one of the first people to actually cross a a big ocean using the very primitive instruments available at the time. They'd only just worked out the sun's movement. I mean, it was that new.

Robin Knox-Johnston5:04

And I asked around to find out from people how they worked, and very few people could tell me. I mean, asteroid they knew the theory, but no one had used one.

Robin Knox-Johnston5:12

So I thought, right, well, let's go out and find out how it works. And Columbus's voyage was absolutely perfect, because he wanted to go due west, so latitude was the thing he'd be checking all the way.

Presenter5:21

So he was going, what, due west from the Canaries or something?

Robin Knox-Johnston5:23

That's right.

Robin Knox-Johnston5:25

Japan.

Presenter5:26

Oh, I see.

Robin Knox-Johnston5:27

Yes, th that was his idea. He'd hit Japan. If he missed Japan, he'd hit China.

Robin Knox-Johnston5:31

And of course he bumped into America on the way.

Presenter5:33

Bumped into the new world. Well at least at least you know you knew what you were gonna bump into when you s

Robin Knox-Johnston5:34

Well at least a

Robin Knox-Johnston5:38

Oh, that's right. Yes. What I wasn't too sure about is um exactly where I'd be when I got there with this funny instrument.

Robin Knox-Johnston5:44

And in fact I bumped into the right bit in the end. I actually did land at San Salvador, which is where he went, which quite surprised me. And I wasn't more than about thirty miles out, so I was quite relieved about all that.

Presenter5:54

And what was this instrument you were using, an astrolabe you're saying?

Robin Knox-Johnston5:56

Astrolabia

Presenter5:57

How does it work?

Robin Knox-Johnston5:58

If you imagine a school protractor, two of them put together to make a complete circle, and your ruler pivoted in the middle, and you line the ruler up with the sun,

Robin Knox-Johnston6:07

And then you read off on the side the height, that is an astrolabe, and they made them of brass.

Presenter6:13

And this is measuring the sun.

Robin Knox-Johnston6:14

Measuring the altitude in degrees of the Sun years.

Presenter6:17

Therefore it was quite a dangerous journey you went on if you had on board no modern aids at all.

Robin Knox-Johnston6:23

Well, yes and no, but then I know, and so did he, that Polaris, the pole star, if I can measure its altitude, it'll give me my latitude. So I knew I wasn't going to be too far out, within, say, at worst

Robin Knox-Johnston6:35

two hundred miles.

Robin Knox-Johnston6:37

North or south. What I wanted to do was try and be more accurate using yesterday.

Presenter6:41

But were there moments, nevertheless, Robin, when you were alone in your boat with your five hundred year old instruments that you thought, my golly, this is um bit dodgy?

Robin Knox-Johnston6:50

Yes, because the instrument couldn't tell me my longitude, i. e. how far I'd gone along towards the on the track to America. And when we got into the Sagasso Sea it blocked my log, which rotates behind me, so I had no idea of the distance I'd covered. So I had to go back to his method for that too, which is basically looking at the sea and timing bubbles going past the boat.

Presenter7:08

So how worried were you, really?

Robin Knox-Johnston7:10

Quite worried, because the last thing you want to do as a single hander is approach land at night, say.

Robin Knox-Johnston7:15

When you might be asleep, or day, for that matter, it doesn't matter. If you're starting to race in towards land, especially low lying land, which the Bahamas are, you won't see it very far away.

Robin Knox-Johnston7:24

You would go to sleep for two hours, and you might wake up on the beach.

Presenter7:27

That's not too bad.

Robin Knox-Johnston7:29

Well, it's not very good for your boat.

Presenter7:32

But were you physically in danger?

Robin Knox-Johnston7:34

No, no, no. I'd been in danger if the boat had hit the beach, but otherwise not know.

Presenter7:39

Your second record.

Robin Knox-Johnston7:40

Well

Robin Knox-Johnston7:41

I can't sing. I mean this is one of the reasons I have to go to sea on my own.

Robin Knox-Johnston7:45

Because if I start singing everyone leaves me.

Robin Knox-Johnston7:48

But I do admire people who can, and I think one of the most beautiful pieces of music I know is the duet from the Pearlfishers, the male duet, and I'd love to have that with me.

Speaker 47:57

See what a slender

Speaker 48:09

Bruh.

Speaker 48:16

Peace with Lord Asley on the earth.

Speaker 48:24

Peace, Son of Lord.

Speaker 48:31

Peace with us on the ash of

Speaker 48:51

Free love.

Presenter8:57

Gino Quillico and John Ayler singing the duet from The Pearlfishers by Bizet with the Orquestre du Capital de Toulouse.

Presenter9:05

You were born Robin in Putney, in south west London, which is a fair old way from the sea, and then you spent the war in Cheshire, I think.

Robin Knox-Johnston9:12

That's right, yes.

Presenter9:12

Do you remember your first exploits on water at all?

Robin Knox-Johnston9:16

I can remember I must have been about four making a raft out of an orange box.

Robin Knox-Johnston9:22

I wasn't very sure what oranges were, and I'd never seen a banana, for instance, but I do remember this orange box, and I nailed it together and carried it down to the beach.

Robin Knox-Johnston9:30

launched it, and of course it sank when I got on it.

Robin Knox-Johnston9:33

which was an early introduction to Archimedes' principle, which has stood me in good

Robin Knox-Johnston9:37

Instead, later on in life.

Presenter9:38

Did you sink too?

Robin Knox-Johnston9:39

Well, no, I hadn't really gone very deep at that stage.

Presenter9:42

But when was it, then, that you really, as it were, caught sea fever?

Robin Knox-Johnston9:47

About the age of eight.

Presenter9:48

Huh, what

Robin Knox-Johnston9:49

I just don't know. I can't remember. All I know is that from that age someone must have said something and I suddenly decided I wanted to go to sea.

Robin Knox-Johnston9:57

And I think you know when you're that age, if people say what you want to do and you say I want to go to sea, I want to be a sailor, people then sort of encourage it. They think of you for birthdays, they give you books on the sea, don't they? And I never look back from then.

Presenter10:10

But you were at boarding school in the part of the country somewhere, miles from the sea.

Robin Knox-Johnston10:13

Oh, we have the Grand Union Canal.

Presenter10:15

What did you do on that?

Robin Knox-Johnston10:16

I launched the canoe, which sank too.

Presenter10:19

But do you think I'm I mean, trying just to find out a little bit more about what it was that motivated it, was it perhaps a a desire for adventure as much as anything, do you think?

Robin Knox-Johnston10:28

Perhaps it was. I don't know. Does one look upon the sea? It's so long ago now. Uh, look upon the sea as an adventure, just being sea. I still do, so I suppose it must be, yes.

Presenter10:36

So you joined the merchant navy as a very puny seventeen year old, I gather.

Robin Knox-Johnston10:40

Yes, I wasn't very big in those days, and I kept my weight down in this day.

Presenter10:43

What happened then?

Robin Knox-Johnston10:45

Well, first thing that happened is I with good food and lots of exercise I grew four inches and put on two stone in my first year.

Presenter10:52

This was with what the British India Steam Navigation Company.

Robin Knox-Johnston10:55

Yes, glorious title, isn't it?

Presenter10:56

You were a deck officer cadet.

Robin Knox-Johnston10:58

That's right, an apprentice in the old fashioned terms, that's right.

Presenter11:01

How quickly did you rise through the ranks?

Robin Knox-Johnston11:03

It took time, and all the time with the company you were just quietly moving up. You know, it's dead men's shoes. So by the time I took my

Robin Knox-Johnston11:10

Master's ticket, I was a second mate.

Robin Knox-Johnston11:12

And uh when I finally left them I was a mate or chief officer or whatever you like to call it.

Presenter11:17

When when was that?

Robin Knox-Johnston11:18

Well actually that was I finally didn't go back to them after I'd been round the world much later on, but just before I went round the world I was still with them. I was first officer on a passenger ship.

Presenter11:27

And did this feed your need for excitement and for challenge, or did it fall short?

Robin Knox-Johnston11:33

Yes, I did enjoy it.

Presenter11:34

But no great dangers, no real adventure.

Robin Knox-Johnston11:37

No, not really. And I think in a way I was getting bored. I mean, that was part of the problem. I I was getting bored with just sitting on a passenger ship and lounging in round the swimming pool, you know.

Presenter11:46

Shall we have your third record?

Robin Knox-Johnston11:49

Well, this is slightly inspirational because I think for a few days I might just want to sit on this island and rather enjoy soaking up the sun. I'm assuming it's going to be sunny.

Robin Knox-Johnston11:57

But they might not have

Presenter11:57

Not if it's in Scotland.

Robin Knox-Johnston11:58

No, that's true.

Robin Knox-Johnston12:01

But I shall want something that's going to make me get up and go. And I I'm very proud of the heritage of this country. And I talk about myself as a Briton because I'm a mix of all the bits and pieces anyway.

Robin Knox-Johnston12:11

And they always say that there's only one song when all Britain's hearts beat as one, and that's uh Land of Hope and Glory, and I'd love to have that.

Presenter13:16

The London Symphony Chorus with the Northern Symphonia conducted by Richard Hickox and Land of Hope and Glory.

Presenter13:24

Now, it was while you were in the the merchant navy that you built the vessel that's um practically as famous as you are, really, isn't it? Suhale. Can you tell me about her?

Robin Knox-Johnston13:32

Well, she came up as an idea when we were on watch, myself and a friend of mine. He was third mate and her second mate.

Robin Knox-Johnston13:39

And we discussed what we're going to do, how we're going to go home at the end of the contracts we were at, working on the Gulf run up at the Persian Gulf.

Robin Knox-Johnston13:45

And we thought we'd get a dow and sail at home and be different, so

Robin Knox-Johnston13:48

We chatted about that.

Robin Knox-Johnston13:50

And we wrote to Alan Villiers and asked him his advice, and he'd done some sailing on it, and he said, Don't do it, you won't get your money back, and you can't afford to lose it, I know that so he said, Good buy a yacht.

Robin Knox-Johnston14:00

So we thought, Oh well, we'll do that then so we made some inquiries and found a place to build it and we built the boat.

Robin Knox-Johnston14:05

And he and the other chap actually dropped out and emigrated to Australia, New Zealand before we actually set off, but we set about the project together.

Presenter14:11

So you were left there with the boat. What what's she made of?

Robin Knox-Johnston14:14

Teak. That's the great advantage of building in India. You could buy teak very cheaply.

Presenter14:15

Fast.

Presenter14:18

How many tons of tea?

Robin Knox-Johnston14:20

She's about eight tons of teak, which is an awful lot of teak.

Presenter14:23

And what did she cost, then?

Robin Knox-Johnston14:24

The total price, complete with engines, sales and everything, was three thousand two hundred and fifty pounds.

Presenter14:30

Amazing. What what would it cost to build one like a today?

Robin Knox-Johnston14:32

I don't know and I dread to ask.

Presenter14:36

So there she was, and you in what nineteen sixty five, I think, in Bombay, and you wanted to get her home to England. There's only one way to do it, that's to sail her home.

Robin Knox-Johnston14:39

Big bomb

Presenter14:44

Now, was that the first time when you set out with her that that you

Presenter14:48

had pitted yourself in a small craft against the big seas.

Robin Knox-Johnston14:52

Yes, it was.

Robin Knox-Johnston14:53

When we left Bombay.

Presenter14:55

Worry?

Robin Knox-Johnston14:57

The only worrying thing in that trip really was the boat leaked so much and we had to go overside and sort of patch it up and then we got these sharks swimming round us which are a bit of a nuisance.

Presenter15:04

But uh that, I presume, was the was the trigger. Um I mean, did you know, after that voyage when you got home, did you know that you were capable, you had the experience to undertake the circumnavigation of the world?

Robin Knox-Johnston15:16

Yes, although the idea didn't occur to me immediately. It occurred later on when I was watching Chichester come in at the end of his voyage, and I suddenly thought, That's it, you know, there's only one thing left to be done. He's gone round the world with one stop.

Robin Knox-Johnston15:29

The only thing left is non-non-stop.

Presenter15:32

Next record.

Robin Knox-Johnston15:33

Well, I was only a month different in age to, um

Robin Knox-Johnston15:37

The Beatles and uh

Robin Knox-Johnston15:39

When we were building Sioux Haley, when we first laid the keel, sixty three, we suddenly started getting these Beatles records arriving in the shops in Bombay. And in fact, I remember the Beatles records very, very well from when we were building Sioux Haley. So

Robin Knox-Johnston15:51

And I'm rather proud of the Beatles. I'm rather proud of the fact that Suddenly Britain dominated pop music. So I'd love to uh take along with me She Loves You.

Speaker 416:13

You think you blast your love?

Speaker 416:16

Well I saw her yesterday, ay It's you she's thinking of And she told me what to say, ay, she said she loves you And you know that can't be bad

Presenter16:30

The Beatles and She Loves You

Presenter16:32

So, Robin Knox Johnston, it was june fourteenth, nineteen sixty eight, and you were setting sail from Falmouth to sail nonstop round the world. The organisers of the race, the Sunday Times, didn't think you had a hope in hell, did they?

Robin Knox-Johnston16:46

No, they decided I was the one person who wouldn't make it.

Presenter16:48

Why?

Robin Knox-Johnston16:50

Well

Robin Knox-Johnston16:51

Let's be honest about it. Most journalists know nothing about the Pussy.

Robin Knox-Johnston16:55

And they put one of their journalists who'd got a friend who sailed who to look into it and uh

Robin Knox-Johnston17:00

He decided his mate was the bloke who was going to win this race, and I knew nothing about it and didn't stand a chance.

Robin Knox-Johnston17:06

And that view generally was picked up by the rest of Fleet Street. In fact, there was only one person who actually turned round and said the one person who stands a chance of doing this was me, and that was the editor of Yachting Monthly.

Presenter17:14

Me and

Robin Knox-Johnston17:16

who himself was an ex Merchant Navy officer.

Robin Knox-Johnston17:19

Because I think he knew the background, you see.

Presenter17:22

So in a sense that might have been something of a goad, wasn't it, that Fleet Street was writing you off? Did did did that kind of fuel you in a way?

Robin Knox-Johnston17:30

Actually it was a profound relief. It meant they didn't bother me too much, because, you know, I got enough on my plate. I was slightly worried about it, inevitably. I mean, it is a frightening thought at the time. You don't know if it's going to be possible or if you're going to survive, and you'd rather not think about that.

Robin Knox-Johnston17:43

And I really didn't want to be bothered by people.

Presenter17:45

Who else was in the race?

Robin Knox-Johnston17:47

There were nine of us set off in total. The Brits were Chabenythe, John Ridgway, Nigel Tetley, Bill King.

Robin Knox-Johnston17:55

Matessier was perhaps the favoured one, a Frenchman, very experienced Frenchman, who has since become a good friend.

Robin Knox-Johnston18:01

And we had an Italian, we had another Frenchman.

Robin Knox-Johnston18:05

Oh, and there was course Donald Crowhurst rather sad and tragic case.

Presenter18:09

And no one but you made it back.

Robin Knox-Johnston18:11

Yes, that's true, yeah.

Presenter18:12

What happened to them all?

Robin Knox-Johnston18:14

Most of them pulled out, their boats weren't suitable, or they ran into difficulties, some of them got damaged, Bill King lost his mast, for instance.

Robin Knox-Johnston18:23

Tetley very nearly made it. It was tragic. He was within a thousand miles of home and he got the false reports the Times were putting out. Not deliberately in their case, of course, but Crowhurst was putting out false reports and the Times were publishing them. And he thought Crowhurst was gaining on him, so he speeded up more than he should have done, and his boat broke up, which is tragic.

Presenter18:42

And in fact, of course Crowhurst never did come back. He he died at sea.

Robin Knox-Johnston18:45

His boat was found floating around emptyers.

Presenter18:48

Tell me then about the voyage a little, because you rounded Cape Horn on january the seventeenth in the following year, nineteen sixty nine, having set out in the June, as we said, and you wrote in your log

Presenter18:59

I spliced the main brace and broke out Aunt Aline's fruit cake. Obviously this is the secret of success here. What was so special about Aunt Aline?

Robin Knox-Johnston19:06

Oh, my aunt's actually rather a good cook.

Robin Knox-Johnston19:09

And she knew I was going off to do this thing, and she sort of thought about what she could give me that might last, and decided it was a fruit cake. And I religiously left it in its tin, sealed, until I rounded the horn.

Robin Knox-Johnston19:20

And you know what's the greatest thing about the cake?

Robin Knox-Johnston19:23

was the fact she'd wrapped it in a copy of The Times so I had something new to read.

Presenter19:28

But food's important, is it? You have a reputation for being a stew man, or is it a curry man?

Robin Knox-Johnston19:32

Bet.

Presenter19:33

But is it any good or is it just something you knock up out of a tin when you're out there?

Robin Knox-Johnston19:36

Probably not the best judge of that. I think it'd be better to ask my crew. My wife and mother in law are convinced that it's dangerous. My crew on the whole seem to quite like it when we're faced with it at sea, but of course by then they've probably been at sea for a week or so, so they probably think anything is good.

Presenter19:51

What about water when you are out there alone and and not stopping?

Robin Knox-Johnston19:55

Well, I took about a hundred gallons in total, but when the boat got smashed over south of the Cape of Good Hope, I lost it all, apart from about, I think, four gallons I got in a container.

Robin Knox-Johnston20:05

So from then on I had to gather it in the sails.

Robin Knox-Johnston20:07

and just collect it in containers and use that.

Presenter20:11

What about loneliness, Robin? Again, unlike most castaways, you do know all about it. I mean, is there a time when solitude turns into loneliness, when you just ache for company?

Robin Knox-Johnston20:21

Nowadays, no, it doesn't, quite honestly.

Robin Knox-Johnston20:24

I'm perfectly happy out at sea on my own. It just doesn't worry me. I think of things and find things to do and I'm really quite content.

Presenter20:30

You don't yearn for conversation or for another point of view but your own.

Robin Knox-Johnston20:34

Well, you see, you can have a conversation without talking. You can think things over in your mind. You can just sit there and think over arguments, things you'd like to say, th conversations you've had and you wished you'd thought of that to say. You know, one's always doing that, of course.

Presenter20:46

But don't you bore yourself to pieces in the end?

Robin Knox-Johnston20:48

Yes, then you change the subject.

Presenter20:51

Let's change the subject just a bit. Well actually it's not changing the subject because let let's have your next piece of music which I think is quite relevant actually.

Robin Knox-Johnston20:57

Well, my next piece of music is one that I've listened to so many times close to the British Isles where you can pick it up when I've been listening to the weather forecast, and actually I rather like it as a bit of music, and it brings back some nice memories of friends I've sailed with in various races or cruises, and it's sailing by.

Presenter22:01

The John Fox Orchestra playing sailing by. Let's carry on talking about life alone at sea, Robin. What about fear? Do you know fear?

Robin Knox-Johnston22:10

Oh, certainly. I think the person who tries to claim that they don't know fear is either inhuman or a bloody liar, frankly.

Presenter22:17

There must have been times when the weather has thrown you into panic.

Robin Knox-Johnston22:22

Not panic so much, because you see it grows slowly. It doesn't happen instantly. I mean, a knockdown happens instantly. But the weather builds up slowly. You've got time to deal with it usually.

Presenter22:31

A knock down you mentioned. What's that?

Robin Knox-Johnston22:33

Well, this is when you're in a particularly big sea and

Robin Knox-Johnston22:37

If you run down the front of it, your rudder quite often stops biting in the water, so you lose control of direction.

Robin Knox-Johnston22:43

and the boat swings round in front of the wave, which then comes up and just slaps you over.

Robin Knox-Johnston22:47

And it's

Robin Knox-Johnston22:49

Rather like a bomb going off.

Robin Knox-Johnston22:51

The nearest I've ever been to that, in fact it's about sixty feet, a bomb going off, but it it's instant. One minute you're in one place, the next minute you've flung across the boat, bashed yourself against something, the whole boat's probably gone on its side. But it's the actual blow, it's incredibly powerful.

Robin Knox-Johnston23:04

And then you have to sort out and see what damage it's occurred.

Presenter23:07

And presumably if that's happened once, it's going to happen a series of times if you're in that kind of thing.

Robin Knox-Johnston23:11

Can do. Yes, can do. The worst I've had is four times in two hours and that was very frightening.

Presenter23:16

When was that?

Robin Knox-Johnston23:17

Last year, last November.

Presenter23:20

What coming back across the Atlantic after you've done the Columbus trip?

Robin Knox-Johnston23:21

To go after you've done the Columbus study.

Presenter23:24

But you must on occasions ha have have thought about death at those kinds of moments. I mean, do you fear death by drowning, or do you believe, as some say not that anybody knows that it's a a relatively pleasant experience?

Robin Knox-Johnston23:35

I'd never thought about it. Um I've always assumed somehow I'll bounce through the other end.

Presenter23:40

I can't believe you've never contemplated death in those moments.

Robin Knox-Johnston23:43

Note, I've never contemplated death.

Robin Knox-Johnston23:46

You know, it's inevitable to all of us anyway. It'll happen sooner or later, preferably later. I don't want to kill myself at sea, and I try not to.

Presenter23:53

But contemplate it now for one moment, if you would. Um do you like the idea of dying at sea?

Robin Knox-Johnston24:00

I look at the odds and recognise that secondly being run over, that's probably the way I'll go.

Robin Knox-Johnston24:05

I have not.

Robin Knox-Johnston24:07

But I have never honestly thought about it.

Presenter24:10

Let's go back then to that moment in nineteen sixty nine, three hundred and twelve days after you'd set out, when you returned a hero, which certainly must have put those Sunday Times judges in their place.

Robin Knox-Johnston24:21

Poor people, yes, but embarrassing really.

Presenter24:23

What was your overwhelming feeling do you remember as you approached land?

Robin Knox-Johnston24:28

Part of me was saying, Super, I'm gonna see everyone again, you know, my close family and friends. The other part of me was saying, Why, you know, I'm very happy out here, I don't particularly want to stop.

Robin Knox-Johnston24:38

Why can't I just go on?

Robin Knox-Johnston24:40

And so I had rather mixed feelings, to be honest.

Robin Knox-Johnston24:43

And coming into Falmouth particularly, I mean, it was very exciting. There was a lot to do, so I didn't have too much time to think from there on. I was sort of navigating in.

Presenter24:50

But how difficult was it after that, after all the excitement and the hero's welcome was over, and you'd got your land legs back, as it were? There must be a huge social problem after that, of just getting back to being with people after being alone for so long.

Robin Knox-Johnston25:04

It was no problem initially, first two or three days, no problem at all. Then I was beginning to feel the strain of having all these people around.

Robin Knox-Johnston25:13

And

Robin Knox-Johnston25:14

We did the best possible thing. As it happens, it wasn't intentional. Some friends and I got in the boat and sailed around to London, and it was those

Robin Knox-Johnston25:22

Six or so days just going round the coast together with people I knew my brother was there as well.

Robin Knox-Johnston25:27

who I trusted totally.

Robin Knox-Johnston25:29

Just got me back to normal. By the time we got back to London I felt fine. I never had any problems afterwards.

Presenter25:35

Record number six.

Robin Knox-Johnston25:37

Well, record number six is one actually that takes me back. It's a it's a pleasant family memory. After my first trip to sea, I came home.

Robin Knox-Johnston25:44

And I arrived back on my parents' twentieth wedding anniversary.

Robin Knox-Johnston25:48

And they got tickets to go and see Aida.

Robin Knox-Johnston25:52

I suppose that's when I started to really like Verdi. I I love Verdi. But I remember Aida with great affection. I think one of the nicest love songs I know is Cell Estaida, and If You've Got It by Pavarotti, even better.

Robin Knox-Johnston26:36

Why are you a

Robin Knox-Johnston26:42

Go.

Presenter26:48

Luciano Pavarotti singing the Aria Celeste Aida from Verdi's Aida with the orchestra of La Scala Milan conducted by Lorin Marzel.

Presenter26:58

So, Robin, if um ports do rot men, and you're patently not rotten, you must have spent a a long time seafaring, and it must have played havoc with your personal life.

Robin Knox-Johnston27:07

Oh, yes, inevitably. I mean, it's uh I think it's very hard on a family if you're a seafarer. That's why so many people leave the sea in their early twenties.

Presenter27:16

In fact, you you married at the age of twenty two, you divorced, and then you remarried your ex wife. Do do you blame the C for all of that?

Robin Knox-Johnston27:24

I blame the sea only partially. I blame a young man who had something to get out of his system for the rest of it, frankly. I mean, there I am suggesting we should take a small baby and wife in a boat and sail back to England, and wife's not unnaturally saying, No way are we taking a nine month old baby in this boat and of course

Robin Knox-Johnston27:42

That leads to a certain amount of disharmony.

Presenter27:44

But now you're a family again, I mean do you go on holidays at all?

Presenter27:49

I can't imagine you sitting on a beach for very long.

Robin Knox-Johnston27:51

I tried it once, about uh when did we last take a holiday? Seventy four.

Robin Knox-Johnston27:56

and at two days' notice I rang a friend and said I want a holiday and we went to Tenerive.

Robin Knox-Johnston28:00

And after one day I'd had it.

Robin Knox-Johnston28:02

I went off with a fisherman every night fishing for sardines and had a marvellous holiday. Wife and daughter stayed by the pool and got sunburned, and they were happy, so it all worked out in the end.

Presenter28:11

You would, of course, on the desert island, get very bored, as you say, you'd undoubtedly build a boat.

Presenter28:16

Would it be more than a kind of ordinary common garden raft? Do you think you could build something decent?

Robin Knox-Johnston28:21

Yes, I I think we've got to be a little bit more specific about this. What sort of trees have I got on this island?

Presenter28:26

Well, I dunno whatever you might think you'd like to have.

Robin Knox-Johnston28:29

Well, you see, if we got some mahogany, I could cut that down and build a dug out, and then I could make a float so I could build myself some sort of catamaran.

Robin Knox-Johnston28:37

And then if we got palm trees, I can make some rope out of that and probably

Robin Knox-Johnston28:41

Plat some sails.

Robin Knox-Johnston28:43

So yes, it's gonna take a bit of time all this, but yes, I think I could probably make a better

Presenter28:46

What about navigation? I mean, you'd have even less than Columbus, really, wouldn't you?

Robin Knox-Johnston28:51

Yes, but then I do know where the stars rise and set, and I will presumably I've shipwrecked myself, so I'll have some idea of where I've I am. And if you think about it, there aren't many islands that are more than a thousand miles from somewhere else.

Robin Knox-Johnston29:05

So if you only averaged fifty miles a day, you've only got twenty days at sea, you could probably find enough food for that.

Presenter29:10

You make it all sound so easy.

Robin Knox-Johnston29:13

Well, yes, I'm trying to make light of it, Dre.

Presenter29:16

Admit it you're worried at last.

Robin Knox-Johnston29:18

Yes, I am slightly worried about this.

Presenter29:20

Record number seven.

Robin Knox-Johnston29:21

Record number seven again is something my my parents taught me. My father was very keen on Gilbert and Sullivan.

Robin Knox-Johnston29:27

And in fact he first took my brother and I to see operas at uh the Savoy when I was twelve and my brother was nine.

Robin Knox-Johnston29:34

And the first one we saw was The Trial by Jury in HMS Pinafore. And I've always loved Trial by Jury ever since, particularly that lovely little song, Where the Flowers Till They Fade. I think it's a beautiful little song, and I'd love to have that with me.

Speaker 429:52

For the trend was over.

Speaker 429:55

They told me

Speaker 429:58

They will make these poses, all their beauty bears. Share the worship Moses, they are passing fair. They are passing fair.

Speaker 430:16

Heaven's gold is tearing free.

Speaker 430:22

I feel like

Speaker 430:24

Be me thy life, O Maid.

Robin Knox-Johnston30:25

Uh

Speaker 430:28

Heaven's dear day.

Speaker 430:34

Maybe my life

Presenter30:48

The Doilycart Opera Company singing part of Gilbert and Sullivan's trial by jury.

Presenter30:53

I take it, Robin, that the best adventure is always the next one.

Robin Knox-Johnston30:56

Always, yes, without fail.

Presenter30:58

And what is the next one?

Robin Knox-Johnston31:00

Ah, it's rather an interesting little problem. Richard Noble, who holds the world land speed record, has decided that it's time Britain had the record for the fastest crossing of the Atlantic unrefuelled.

Robin Knox-Johnston31:13

So he went about it in his usual energetic way and the first thing he did was buy an R B two eleven engine, which is huge and develops enormous amounts of horsepower.

Robin Knox-Johnston31:21

And then he sort of got everything going and then he started thinking about crew and he said, Would I do the navigation for him?

Presenter31:26

So he's fitted this RB211 to some kind of vessel.

Robin Knox-Johnston31:28

He's building the boat at the moment, yes.

Presenter31:30

And you come what across towards us, acro west to east, as it were.

Robin Knox-Johnston31:34

That's right. Next year we'll take the boat over to America and we'll sit there till the weather's right and then we'll launch ourselves, you know, like the blue touch paper and hang on.

Presenter31:41

This is what Richard Branson attempted to do, isn't it?

Robin Knox-Johnston31:43

That's right, but we're not refueling on the way.

Presenter31:46

And how exciting is that? I mean, isn't that fairly sort of straightforward stuff? You've just got to turn the engine on and keep going?

Robin Knox-Johnston31:52

Sue, you know what a seven four seven's like. You imagine a boat with

Robin Knox-Johnston31:57

about a quarter of the weight, but with a quarter of the horsepower.

Robin Knox-Johnston32:01

Uh we're going to be strapped on to this thing, going at speeds I dread to think about, but would certainly get us into considerable trouble on the M twenty five with the police. And uh I think it's going to be absolutely fascinating.

Presenter32:13

But you really need to navigate. I mean, don't you just sort of point it east and go like a bat out of hell?

Robin Knox-Johnston32:19

Sort of, in a way. I mean, I think you aim it rather like a bullet and hang on, but in fact you've got to get the weather right because it will not take particularly big waves, or that will slow you down or could damage the boat. So my job really is to select the right weather and weave through it.

Presenter32:35

We've we've talked about being an adventurer, but there's also um it's a large dollop of of Boy Scout in there, isn't there? I do you feel there's there's part of you that still hasn't, and perhaps never will, grow up?

Robin Knox-Johnston32:47

And yeah, I'm not sure.

Robin Knox-Johnston32:50

That's a bit below the belt, that one. I haven't thought about it. Perhaps in some ways there is. On the other hand, you know, you can't go to sea without being totally practical about it. I mean, you don't joke with the sea. It's not a place for joking. You can't lie to the sea. It'll soon

Robin Knox-Johnston33:05

See you at.

Presenter33:06

And of course sailing is something you can go on doing. I mean, you've mentioned Sir Francis Chichester and there was Alec Rose as well. It's something you can go on doing all your life long, isn't it?

Robin Knox-Johnston33:15

That's right, and you can still be competitive, too, which I think makes it a rather unique sport. You can get old people of my age still beating the youngsters, which is tremendously satisfying.

Presenter33:24

So old sailors never die, they just keep sailing by.

Robin Knox-Johnston33:28

Oh.

Presenter33:28

Oh. I didn't intend that.

Robin Knox-Johnston33:30

I didn't intend that.

Presenter33:33

Let's have the last record.

Robin Knox-Johnston33:35

Well, the last one is is what I've chosen because it's got very happy memories. Most of my friends are sailors.

Robin Knox-Johnston33:41

People I've met sailing. And in 1971, we did a race from Cape Town to Rio, and we had a particularly good crew.

Robin Knox-Johnston33:49

And it's amazing the number of that crew who are still very, very close friends. And I always remember this race because.

Robin Knox-Johnston33:55

We um had this particular record that was top of the pops at the time and we just kept playing it and playing it and playing it and it's Crackling Rosie by Neil Dahman.

Speaker 434:04

Make their smile

Speaker 434:07

Girl is with last forever. Well that's alright, cause we got all night.

Speaker 434:15

Set the world arrived.

Speaker 434:18

Find us a dream, but don't ask no questions yet.

Presenter34:24

Neil Diamond and Crackling Rosie.

Presenter34:27

Well, now, Robin, you have to choose one of the eight that's more special to you than any of the others.

Robin Knox-Johnston34:33

This is very difficult because, you know, one's can't sit on this island indefinitely. I mean, one's got to get off it, and I think I'd better inspire myself, so I think it's probably going to have to be Land of Hope and Glory.

Presenter34:42

And the book. The sitting on the beach already, there is the Bible and there is the complete works of Shakespeare. Which one would you like us to tuck in the wreck with you?

Robin Knox-Johnston34:51

That's super, because I had both of those with me when I went round the world and I've read them both.

Robin Knox-Johnston34:56

So in a

Presenter34:57

But all of them both.

Robin Knox-Johnston34:58

Yes, right the way through. Yup, tremendous.

Robin Knox-Johnston35:01

So, what I'd like actually is something to be vaguely useful to me, which is.

Robin Knox-Johnston35:06

I I mean I love identifying birds and fish, and what I like is a very simple book.

Robin Knox-Johnston35:12

It will identify the birds and fish that exist round this island.

Presenter35:15

Right. You shall have one, and and a luxury.

Robin Knox-Johnston35:18

Ah well now listen, I've got a peculiar choice.

Robin Knox-Johnston35:21

peculiar request, I should say.

Robin Knox-Johnston35:23

What I'd like is a video recorder and a uh television on which I can put the tape of the Queen Mother's birthday parade because I did so enjoy it. Now I'm quite happy to peddle the generator for this. I don't mind having to pedal it when I put it on. But really everything I like was there. We had the military music which I love and we had the chats marching, they looked so smart, and then all those people obviously enjoying themselves marching past, and the Queen Mum looked marvellous, and the whole thing, I just sat there and watched the whole thing through and was perfectly happy throughout. So that's what I'd like.

Presenter35:54

You're a true patriot, aren't you?

Robin Knox-Johnston35:57

No, I'm not particularly. I just enjoy that.

Presenter36:00

Robin Knox Johnston, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Robin Knox-Johnston36:05

Thank you.

Speaker 336:13

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.