Jean Rook

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 10:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen ninety, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:28

My Castaway this week is a journalist. For the past eighteen years, she shared her life with the millions of readers of her national newspaper column. Forthright but always amusing, she hacked her way to the top from the provincial retreat of the Sheffield Telegraph via Fleet Street's tempestuous tabloids to her present perch at the Daily Express. She claims to be the highest paid woman journalist in Britain, and love her or loathe her, and there are plenty of people who do both, she remains one of the last and the most famous example of that disappearing species, the star columnist.

Presenter1:01

Money and fame have not, though, saved her from personal tragedy. Over the last three years she shared with her readers her experiences of breast cancer and widowhood.

Presenter1:12

She is the self styled First Lady of Fleet Street, Jean Rook.

Presenter1:16

Well now there's an introduction to Gene Culture.

Jean Rook1:17

Yeah.

Presenter1:19

Begs a lot of questions. What about for starters? How do you know you're the highest paid woman in

Jean Rook1:22

Fleet Street. Highest paid columnists now because there are two women editors now, you know, two editors, women editing papers. And there was this myth for years, you know, that I wanted to be the first woman to edit a national paper.

Jean Rook1:35

And if I had edited any paper, Sue, it would have folded in a fortnight. I'm I'm a lousy executive. I'm surely a person who likes to write. I'm surely a person who communi the great communicator with my readers.

Presenter1:47

But you're an assistant editor now, as well as being chief content. What does that mean?

Jean Rook1:50

What does that mean?

Presenter1:51

Uh

Jean Rook1:51

Uh

Presenter1:51

Uh

Jean Rook1:51

Who do you edit?

Presenter1:51

Who do you edit?

Jean Rook1:52

Well, I I attend all the meetings and I put in my oar, which is quite a good thing and a nice thing, you know, especially on sport. I mean, I know a lot about tennis, I know a lot about uh show jumping and things. And it's nice being able to put your oar in.

Presenter2:07

But I have to ask you the big question, which is how much do you earn? You must earn more than those two women editors. They're much younger than you.

Jean Rook2:13

I never told, and I can't. No, no, I can't do that. I shan't be earning it anymore tomorrow morning. But I bet you are.

Presenter2:18

But I bet you are the highest paid woman in Fleet Street, aren't you? Wouldn't you be afraid of that? I bet I'm doing all right. Yeah, I think so.

Jean Rook2:21

I just need time to

Presenter2:23

Uh

Jean Rook2:23

Once sent you to a desert island in the middle of the middle of the city.

Presenter2:25

Uh

Jean Rook2:33

We had a go. There was an island in the Seychelles, and it was a bit of a swindle because uh there is somebody there in the morning and somebody there in the evening to look after it.

Jean Rook2:43

But they dropped me on a sort of grassy knoll.

Jean Rook2:46

and they said they would come back at six o'clock.

Jean Rook2:49

So I thought, well, I'm not going into the middle bit'cause that's got woods and anything could come out of there or be in there. So I thought I'll go on the beach where I'm safe.

Jean Rook2:57

And then I saw all these enormous funnel shaped holes, wide at the top and narrow at the bottom.

Jean Rook3:03

And you remember that film, Doctor Know, the James Bond one, Ursila Andresse, where they strapped her down and they threatened that all these crabs would would come clicking over her? And I realized that what these holes were. And I thought, now these Johnnies will come out when the sun goes down. And you know how rapidly the sun sort of goes zonk?

Jean Rook3:22

Well, before that little plane came I was sweating spiders, I really was. Right. Let's get down to the the Rook Records. What would you play first? What did you play first? Oh, something to cool me off and remind me of Wet Hedgerows and Fox Loves. Vaughan Williams, uh, Fantasia Thomas Tannis.

Presenter4:34

Part of Vaughan Williams's Phantasia on a theme by Thomas Talis, played by the London Philharmonic Orchestra, conducted by Bernard Heitink.

Presenter4:42

I said, Jean, that your your paper sent you to a desert island, but do you still get sent on jobs, or do you choose your jobs? Or do you go on the strength of an editor's good idea?

Jean Rook4:52

Yeah.

Presenter4:52

Well, I will suggest something, he will suggest something. But you you you've had lots of edit uh eight uh editors, I think, at the Express. Now which of those has had the has been for

Jean Rook5:02

full of the best ideas.

Jean Rook5:04

Gerrick Jameson, oddly enough.

Jean Rook5:06

It was amazingly full of good ideas. I remember once something fell to pieces. We were going to America and everything fell to pieces, you know. So I went to Derek and I said, Look, I think we'd better call this off because, you know, it's an expensive number. Nah, he said, I want to know. He said, go to Harlem and he said, find out people who have been mugged four times so they won't come out in the street. And then he said, go to San Francisco. And he said, get in the gutter with the vicars and the homosexuals. Well, Sue, how I'd survived that one, I mean, it was bullets through your hair on last bottle time.

Presenter5:39

The thing about when you go out to do something like that is you've you the onus is upon you to have an opinion with a capital O, isn't it? To write it big. Say if you don't feel it, say if you sit at your typewriter and you think, I just don't feel strongly about this.

Jean Rook5:46

Smith

Jean Rook5:52

Oh, I don't know. I do seem to have opinions about things. I mean, I think being Yorkshire is a great help. We're a very opinionated place.

Presenter5:59

Yes, but on the other hand, if you are constantly, all of the time, as fearless, frank, opinionated, bitchy, provocative as your column, I mean you must just be able to do it.

Jean Rook6:11

That's what you mean in real life? Oh, it'd be dreadful, wouldn't it?

Jean Rook6:15

No, I'm I'm I'm very sweet at home, really.

Jean Rook6:18

Should I believe that? Here and there.

Presenter6:22

But are you I mean, are you nice do you have friends? Are you generous? Indeed

Jean Rook6:24

Are you generous?

Jean Rook6:27

Yes, I do, actually. I do. One you I'm sure heavens, you must get the same thing. They think you are sort of going to come in with four heads and the first breeze fire, but once they meet you

Jean Rook6:37

I'm get you.

Jean Rook6:38

Yeah.

Presenter6:38

But what that means is you spend your life pretending to be something that you're not.

Jean Rook6:43

Debicause on in words I am.

Jean Rook6:46

And also, I mean, if I lost my temper with you right now, I have a once wonderful line of invective. It's very colourful, and it all comes out as written.

Jean Rook6:56

And if you read the column the the the down page bits that are quite quiet and soft.

Jean Rook7:01

There were lots of them. But you happen to say, when they separate the sheep from the goats on Domesday, where will they put that inefficient old bleeder the Archbishop of Canterbury?

Jean Rook7:12

And I meant it with all my heart, and people remember that.

Presenter7:15

Let's pause for a record before the invective goes on.

Jean Rook7:18

Uh

Jean Rook7:18

Well, I think we ought to have.

Jean Rook7:21

My sort of theme song, Yorkshire.

Jean Rook7:24

It'll be more about time.

Presenter8:08

A band of the Grenadier Guards conducted by Major FJ Harris playing on Iltlimont Bar Tat.

Presenter8:14

To be fair, Jean, you've probably been as cruel about yourself as anybody. You've described yourself variously in your teens as a blinkered cart horse, big boob, big bottomed, and thirteen stone. I mean, I I take it that you were not one of life's beauties.

Jean Rook8:29

I was incredibly dreadful.

Jean Rook8:31

I looked absolutely horrendous. I had these round eyes behind owl specks. I had skinny plaits. I was terribly plump. Inside there was somebody longing to be glamorous and famous. I mean, I wanted to be an actor.

Jean Rook8:47

Uh

Presenter8:47

Uh

Jean Rook8:47

Yeah.

Presenter8:47

But in any case, your Dad thought you were smashing, didn't he?

Jean Rook8:50

Oh, my father yes. My father was a very strange man. I mean, he was the last of the Victorians, and yet he had this idea.

Jean Rook8:56

about the future of women.

Jean Rook8:58

He was the start of women's lib. What did he want you to be? Oh, he wanted me to be a lawyer. My mother wanted me to be an Englishmistress. I mean my father's face when I came home and said I'd got a job on the Sheffield Telegraph.

Jean Rook9:09

Seven pounds eight and ninepence a week.

Presenter9:12

But he was obviously very ambitious for you and that's where you

Jean Rook9:14

There are you

Presenter9:15

Uh

Jean Rook9:15

Uh

Presenter9:15

Yeah.

Jean Rook9:15

Uh

Presenter9:15

But your ambition

Jean Rook9:16

Uh

Presenter9:16

Confirms it.

Jean Rook9:16

Yes, tremendously. And the marvellous thing was that, I mean, I was an only child only because I could be an only child. My mother couldn't have more.

Jean Rook9:24

And you might have thought there was that great Northern thing of, you know, I never had a lad to carry on the business and never once did I feel that.

Presenter9:31

Yeah.

Jean Rook9:31

Yeah.

Presenter9:31

Would you say uh would you admit to having suffered from driving ambition?

Jean Rook9:38

Yeah.

Presenter9:38

Yeah.

Jean Rook9:38

And asked, you know, at the time that I had breast cancer, when you think your life over, you think, oh, was all that worth it? I mean, should I not have had

Jean Rook9:48

More sunshine, more horse riding, more tennis playing. Why on earth did I do all that? If I'm going to drop dead at the end of this, it's been a hard life.

Jean Rook9:57

But if I had to do it again I would do it again.

Presenter9:59

Again You mentioned just now your appearance when you were little and you said there was a a glamorous person trying to get out. I mean

Presenter10:05

That glamorous person has got out, hasn't she? In the sense that you have lovely blonde hair and you have lots of gold jewellery and you have a permanent suntan and

Jean Rook10:13

And a jaw like Henry Coover's too.

Presenter10:16

Yet you care about all of that, don't you? I mean, you you've written that you admire Diana Dawes, you admired Elizabeth Taylor, you go for that big bosomy glam stuff.

Jean Rook10:16

But you care about

Jean Rook10:25

I do really, in that I admire people who do it so wonderfully well. But you go for brassiness almost more than classiness, don't you? Yes, I don't think I'm the sort of I've always wanted to be one of those people, you know, tied the

Jean Rook10:38

the head scarf totally on the point of the chin, and had slim black labradors called Flight. I mean, I'd love to do that. I'd love to be all bride's head revisited. But I never looked that way, and uh and I don't think I can do it.

Jean Rook10:52

Record number three. Well, one of my heroines then, Elton John, wrote Candle in the Wind for Marilyn Monroe, and I think like every journalist, I'm sure you would say yourself.

Jean Rook11:03

This was the one who got away. This was the greatest story of all. Uh

Speaker 211:07

Seems to me.

Speaker 211:10

Live your life like a candle and blow it

Speaker 211:15

Never knowing who the flame to

Speaker 211:18

When the rain set in

Speaker 211:22

And I would've liked to know you, but I was just

Speaker 211:29

Candle burned out long before the legend ever did.

Presenter11:34

Elton John and Candle in the Wind. So you came up to London, Jean, early fifties, to read English at Bedford College. You just missed a first, I think.

Jean Rook11:42

You just

Presenter11:44

Uh

Jean Rook11:44

It was the best thing that ever, ever happened to me. Why? Well, otherwise I should have taken a junior lectureship. But you went on to do an M A. Yes, I did. Well, my father said he would spring me a very small second hand car. And also

Presenter11:49

But you will

Jean Rook11:57

Yes, I was a What was the thesis? The impact of T. S. Eliot on the English drama of his time, and then Toddle laughed. Uh

Presenter12:05

I bet your readers would laugh at hearing that. So you went off to the Sheffield Telegraph for seven pounds eight and ninepence a week. What was your first memorable assignment?

Jean Rook12:07

The idea.

Presenter12:15

Well, we

Jean Rook12:15

We had a news editor. We call him the Barnsley Bull and he had one of those eyes, you know, like a sheep dog. He was a bit wall eyed, and one of those eyes which go in outwards and one that goes straight at you. So you're never quite sure. Well, I did nothing for weeks, and then I came into my own because the drama critic fell ill.

Jean Rook12:35

So he sent for me. He said, We're sending you to Bradford. They're doing the life of Christ the local amateurs are doing the life of Christ from beginning to end. So I said, Well, that'll be comprehensive, mister Taylor, but it was lost on him.

Jean Rook12:45

So I got there and when I got out the deputy news editor whom I later married he took me to a private room at a pub.

Jean Rook12:55

And he said, Well, I'll be back in half an hour and you know

Jean Rook12:59

You'll have written five hundred words.

Jean Rook13:01

And when he'd gone, I was so desperate I didn't know what to do.

Jean Rook13:06

I started it he came back and he said, What have you written? and I said, Nothing.

Jean Rook13:10

So he reversed the charges to the Sheffield Telegraph and he put the phone in my hand and he said, That, or your career's finished before it starts.

Jean Rook13:17

And I remember dictating

Jean Rook13:19

Jerusalem was builded last night among the dark satanic mills of the Bradford Woollen Industry, and I went on and on and on.

Speaker 113:25

Yeah.

Jean Rook13:27

Five hundred words. And the next morning as the paperboy was pushing the paper through the door, I was pulling it out the other side and it was there and my name was on it. You got the byline.

Jean Rook13:36

The by line so I walked into the office, past the Barnsley bull, you see, didn't care, on air, and I said I had my first by line, mister Taylor, and I don't know which eye looked at me as he said I said we had to put your name on at last. He said we couldn't understand a bloody word of it.

Jean Rook13:52

Wonderful.

Presenter13:52

Let's get you from um from the Sheffield Telegraph via the Yorkshire Post into Fleet Street, which was via fashion. Now, did you know anything at all about fashion?

Presenter14:04

Yeah.

Jean Rook14:04

And they sent for me and they said, What did I know about colour photography? and I said, Everything. I had taken some black and white shots of Yorkshire models with sheep by stone walls, and that was all I knew.

Jean Rook14:14

Yeah.

Presenter14:14

But what was the moment then, Jean, when you were enabled to move on into journalism properly?

Jean Rook14:20

To journalism.

Presenter14:22

Prince

Jean Rook14:22

Miss Margaret. Yeah.

Jean Rook14:24

came out she really had made a great error.

Jean Rook14:28

Black lacy stockings had had their first go round, and they'd been dead for about six months. And in those days everybody, always on newspapers, wrote Her Majesty looking radiant in, Princess Margaret looking radiant in,

Jean Rook14:44

And I just sat down and I said to Amy Landwoods, the woman's editor, I said, God, she must have had those in her bottom drawer forever. She said, write it.

Jean Rook14:53

So I put where did Princess Margaret get those old fashioned black lacy stockings? She must have had them in her bottom drawer. Well, the next day I'm in Australia, Canada, America, at all day and night, all different times ringing up. If that has led to the sun, the tabloid sun of today, printing a loon again, just because poor Prince Charles occasionally likes to go and

Jean Rook15:15

wander alone in the heather, then I'm sorry, because now I do worry about some of the

Jean Rook15:21

Rotten things that are done to the Royal Family in the way of spying. I mean, it's ended up, hasn't it, with the

Speaker 115:22

The role of the

Jean Rook15:26

Journalists swinging from drain pipes and up trees with their binoculars round their necks. And of that you do not approve.

Jean Rook15:33

I would hate let me say, I would hate to be a royal reporter. I couldn't poke and pry like that.

Jean Rook15:41

Record number four. Well, I'm going to have

Jean Rook15:44

The Eaton Boating Song. My son went there, and if they were not the happiest days of his life, they certainly were of mine, and I'm not thinking about the glamorous playing fields and Wellington and all that. I'm thinking about Thursday night going out and taking out twelve Etonians down to the local Pizza Hut and hearing the doings of the week.

Presenter16:47

BOYS OF ETON COLLEGE SINGING THE ETON BOATING SONG

Presenter16:51

Well, then finally, Jean, eighteen years ago, the express made you an offer that you couldn't refuse, and you crossed the street from the Daily Mail and David English, now Sir, never to return.

Presenter17:01

Did David English never make any effort to keep you? He certainly did. He wasn't well pleased at the time. And and later on he sent because you've written about it since he sent Nigel Dempster and the Males' team of snarling terriers on to you, baying for your blood for weeks. I mean, is this really how the Knights of Fleet Street go on?

Jean Rook17:18

Well, th he wasn't a knight of Fleet Street then, and I don't know, he just said to Nigel, who is very sharp,

Jean Rook17:24

I mean, he just turned to Nigel and said,'Do her up in private eye.

Jean Rook17:28

And um when Nigel does you up in private eye, it it's it's a rare old girl. You have to be pretty

Presenter17:33

You have to be pretty

Jean Rook17:34

Very thick skin. Jean.

Presenter17:35

Don't you to survive in Fleet Street?

Jean Rook17:37

I never minded the privatized stuff unless they start on your family. But I think this is so terribly true of anyone.

Presenter17:43

What about the people that you go after? What about the people um you're rude about? I mean, are you able to look them in the eye when you meet them again, or do you hide?

Jean Rook17:50

Well

Jean Rook17:51

Oh, yeah, well, I mean the one who got most incensed was was um Eric Morley, who used to do Mr. World. Remember, he used to sniff and announce them in reverse order. Miss World. Miss World, that's it. Miss World. Well, I that was a Freudian slip,'cause he thought he was Mr. World. And I

Jean Rook18:09

When I went in to interview him I knew that he had waited half an hour to be signing a cheque for twenty five thousand pounds.

Jean Rook18:16

As I walked in.

Jean Rook18:17

And by the time he had told me how he invented Bingo, won the war,

Jean Rook18:22

I mean, I came back and I I

Jean Rook18:24

Seduna is closer to Mecca than God.

Jean Rook18:26

And this was pinned up in 250 mecca ballrooms, and he wrote me a twenty page letter. And in during this time, you see, I had said

Jean Rook18:36

He is so wonderful.

Jean Rook18:38

Should we at the time of his birth have looked for a star in the East?

Jean Rook18:42

And in this twenty page letter it said You can't even get your facts straight. I was born in the West End of London.

Jean Rook18:51

Record number five.

Jean Rook18:52

Our record number five is another wonderful woman who got away. I I think hers was one of the greatest stories, one of the saddest stories, and I think she's got one of the most

Jean Rook19:02

Amazing voices are just the final bit of the record.

Jean Rook19:06

R, which is love and music from Tosca I think sums up her whole life.

Speaker 219:16

Uh

Speaker 219:17

With all of the God

Presenter20:06

Maria Callas singing Vissidate from Puccini's Tosca with the Orchestra of La Scala Milan, conducted by Victor de Sabata.

Presenter20:16

It was on a a wild winter's night five years ago, Jean, that fortunes began to change for you and your family, wasn't it, when three masked men came to call at your home in Kent. What happened?

Jean Rook20:27

Well, I had got flu.

Jean Rook20:30

I just got back from Los Angeles with a bug.

Jean Rook20:33

And I said to Jeff, my husband,

Jean Rook20:36

He he was going to take the dog out at about ten and he said, Shall I come back in? and I said, No, no, no, don't I said, Whatever I've got you and the dog don't want.

Jean Rook20:44

So I said, No, I'll I'll be fine and I fell immediately into a sort of feverish doze and

Jean Rook20:51

I woke up and there was a torch shining in my face.

Jean Rook20:54

And then this voice said, Do as I say, or I'll blow your effing head off.

Jean Rook21:00

And so

Jean Rook21:02

I realized that this was it.

Jean Rook21:04

And all of the what was taken was my entire collection of jewelry. It was a collection of gold, but it'd been done over fifteen years from everywhere, China, Russia, and

Jean Rook21:15

and as they hurled it all into a pillar case,

Jean Rook21:18

I thought, you know, there goes China, and there goes Japan, and there goes my life.

Jean Rook21:22

Coursey

Presenter21:23

It it happened, sadly, to a number of people, but I think that you believe that it had a very profound effect on Geoffrey. He was never afraid of the same.

Jean Rook21:29

He was never the same.

Jean Rook21:31

He was hit that night, presumably with the torch.

Jean Rook21:34

and he died eventually of a brain tumor.

Presenter21:37

And how much time between the two events between the burglary and his death? Three

Jean Rook21:41

Yes.

Presenter21:42

Yeah.

Jean Rook21:42

He died on your silver wedding anniversary. On the silver wedding anniversary, yes, I will

Jean Rook21:46

I went down to the hospital and and I had never seen anyone die, nor had I seen a dead body, because my father had said to me, I'll get up and haunt you if you do and

Jean Rook21:56

I d don't care about those things. I don't think it means anything to the person who's gone. I truly don't. And I said my goodbyes to Jeff before he went into a coma, and they told me then that

Jean Rook22:06

He would never know me again.

Jean Rook22:09

But I thought, well, hang about, old lad, if you're going to wait until our silver wedding anniversary, I will.

Jean Rook22:14

And I did.

Jean Rook22:16

And then I suddenly realized, you know, life comes over you. I thought, Oh, I've left the house unlocked. The poor dog must be dying and I went to the sister and I said, Look, sister,

Jean Rook22:24

What am I to do? She said, Look, my dear, if you go back to the house

Jean Rook22:28

He could die the minute you put your hand on the

Jean Rook22:31

Cardo

Jean Rook22:32

Or it could be tomorrow morning. Do you need to see him die?

Jean Rook22:37

And I said, no, I don't.

Jean Rook22:39

And I went to the house and I took the dog out. I didn't go back. And when the telephone rang

Jean Rook22:45

He had gone.

Presenter22:47

And three days later you wrote about it in your column.

Jean Rook22:50

Yes, it came to Columbay.

Jean Rook22:54

And I really I mean, Jeff had been my deputy news editor. He had taught me ab absolutely everything. And I came down, I remember I had a cigarette and then

Jean Rook23:03

Coffee on this sort of dreary, hopeless, impossible morning in July.

Jean Rook23:09

Mm Jeff gone three days and I thought, well

Jean Rook23:13

You know, and today's Tuesday and it would have been the column down. I thought, well, it had better be.

Jean Rook23:18

Because Jeff would have said, Well, what are you going to do next week?

Jean Rook23:22

You know

Jean Rook23:23

You've you've stopped in your life here.

Jean Rook23:26

And I thought, What shall I tell them? and I thought, Well, that they will know.

Jean Rook23:29

Even if I never mention in my column ever,

Jean Rook23:33

that my husband has died. They'll know from the way I write, not because it's miserable writing.

Jean Rook23:38

But they'll know that I've got a a sympathy with with people who've been widowed.

Presenter23:42

Shall we have another record there?

Jean Rook23:45

Well, I will have one for my memories of Jeff, because every couple, I think, has our record. And I remember when you know, it wasn't so very far distant, but I was gone to the Yorkshire Post, and he was still on the Sheffield Telegraph.

Jean Rook23:58

And we used to ri ring from Leeds to Sheffield, and we used to play this particular movement over the phone to each other, as well as talking.

Presenter24:57

Vladimir Ashkenazi playing part of the second movement of Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No. two, with the concert gabau orchestra conducted by Bernard Heitink.

Presenter25:07

Coinciding with Jeff's deterioration was your own trauma, Jean, the nightmare of every woman, the discovery of the the lump in the breast.

Jean Rook25:16

In the breast.

Presenter25:17

Uh

Presenter25:18

Can you remember the moment you dis

Jean Rook25:19

Oh, uh distinctly. So we

Presenter25:19

Oh, it

Jean Rook25:22

I've got a very, very tiny place in London, a very tiny flat.

Jean Rook25:27

My son Gresby had hung his Marilyn Monroe posters either side of a full length mirror, and I said, Well, thanks a lot and he said, Well, there's nowhere else to put em.

Jean Rook25:35

And I'm looking in this full-length mirror, not admiring myself, but thinking, Oh, Lord, time I had a bath and I thought, Wow, what's that blue bruise?

Jean Rook25:42

Just sort of in the middle by the breastbone.

Jean Rook25:45

Um I brushed my fingers against it and thought, Oh,

Jean Rook25:49

And it's like a warmer.

Jean Rook25:50

And it had not been there.

Jean Rook25:52

three weeks previously, because I had been in Dubai in a swimming costume, and I would have found it.

Jean Rook25:59

I know I knew straight about. I mean it was so. Did you? Yes. You knew immediately what you knew. Yes, I knew it was.

Presenter26:01

Did you?

Presenter26:02

Yes, Ms. Kent.

Speaker 126:03

I'm in

Jean Rook26:06

And I shot round to our Scottish sister, the Daily Express, and she said, Well, you better have that scene too right away. And I I went privately immediately.

Jean Rook26:14

And uh I was lucky that I could. I'm now on the National Health.

Jean Rook26:18

And I had this wonderful Arab gentleman, and he thought it was nothing.

Jean Rook26:22

I thought, oh, wonderful went home singing Christmas carols and then he rang me about six and he said, Look, I think we'll have a biopsy.

Jean Rook26:29

Just in case.

Jean Rook26:30

And just as I was going under, I said to him,

Jean Rook26:34

What if it is, Malik?

Jean Rook26:36

Ah, well, he said, We'd bring you round, tell you the extent of the damage, and then we would arrange for surgery. I said, Well

Jean Rook26:43

No, no, no, I said you'd never see me again.

Jean Rook26:45

So I said look

Jean Rook26:46

Can I say I'll have it done?

Presenter26:49

So were you giving him permission to remove your breast?

Jean Rook26:50

Yes, yes.

Jean Rook26:52

And um

Jean Rook26:54

When I came round, this dear little nurse, who had said everything would be all right, and I said to her,

Jean Rook27:00

Well, and she said, Oh, Pet, I can't tell you and of course then I knew.

Presenter27:04

What had happened?

Jean Rook27:05

Well, the sister came in and suggested it was malignant, and I m all I said was, Did you get it out? and she said, Yes, and I said, Did you get it all out? and she said, Yes. I was in the theatre.

Jean Rook27:16

And at five o'clock he came in.

Jean Rook27:18

The surgeon

Jean Rook27:20

And he said, You are the most peculiar woman who ever breathed. He said, You haven't asked me if you've had a mastectomy.

Jean Rook27:27

Or a lampectomy, or what.

Jean Rook27:29

And you know, I haven't thought

Jean Rook27:32

And he said, I've done you a beautiful job. You'd even be able to wear a swimsuit and so on.

Jean Rook27:37

And then he said, but of course we must see how far it spread. Well, I mean Nancy Reagan said that cancer, finding actually breast cancer, was like being run over by a trap.

Jean Rook27:46

It was like being spluttered against a wall at ninety miles an hour spread.

Jean Rook27:51

I never thought of that.

Jean Rook27:54

And then I thought

Jean Rook27:57

Come on, I thought, now, I can't stand this this glamorous place I was in.

Jean Rook28:02

And I decided that Pembreak Council Hospital, which is our

Jean Rook28:07

local in Kent. I thought, no, I'll go there.

Jean Rook28:11

I'm too Yorkshire mean to pay sixty quid a time to jump the queue bit ashamed of jumping the queue to get it done.

Jean Rook28:18

So I won't do that. I'll go on the National Health.

Jean Rook28:22

And I'll find out what it's really all about. And I did feel terrible the first time I walked in because people said it's genuine, it's genius.

Jean Rook28:29

And people said, Oh, what are you doing here? And I said, Same as you.

Jean Rook28:33

And I go every four months for my check up and I he said, you know, the this wonderful man who does it sweat like hell the night before.

Jean Rook28:41

Forget it else. Well, I wasn't about forget it else. I mean, there I am Sue living s fumbling and thinking, and will it come back and shall I die? and bom, bomb bomb.

Jean Rook28:50

And my mother, she had had breast cancer seven years previously, and one day I was moaning on, will it come back, will I die? And she said, I've got an idea for you, my girl.

Jean Rook29:01

She said, If you are so hell-bent sure you're going to die, then do it now'cause she said, What is the point of living for twenty, maybe thirty years?

Speaker 129:09

Maybe s

Jean Rook29:10

All the time, ruining your own life, everybody else's, saying, Is it going to come back? Am I going to die? Who knows?

Jean Rook29:17

Get on with your life.

Jean Rook29:20

And I said, Well, I d I don't think I can write. She said, Why not? She haven't had brain surgery. Some more music, I think.

Jean Rook29:26

Well, I'll give you the one at the time that I drove.

Jean Rook29:30

up and down from the radiography department, you know, having my thing done. I used to have this blasting through the open roof and of my Jaguar and it really keeps you up. Chariots of fire gets me fiery again.

Presenter30:18

The theme tune from the film Chariots of Fire, composed and performed by Van Gellis. So life goes on, Jean. Gresby's finished at Eton. And is your relationship with him that much closer because of everything that's happened?

Jean Rook30:25

Baseball.

Jean Rook30:27

Yeah.

Presenter30:31

Yeah.

Jean Rook30:31

Oh, I see.

Presenter30:32

Yes.

Jean Rook30:32

Yes, I think it is.

Jean Rook30:35

There are he and I, but the the oh, you remember that series, Mother Love, on television, which is terrifying to any woman alone. He need have no fears of that. I'm not

Presenter30:47

Not that sort of person. So you you you are going to consider that some young woman is good enough to have your son?

Jean Rook30:52

Some young woman is I have to be very careful how I phrase this several young women are passing through the house, you know, in their he has an awful lot of girlfriends, which is absolutely lovely. And you sail on at the express. I take it you'll never leave.

Presenter30:52

But

Jean Rook31:10

Well, I can't afford to, so he's nineteen years old, and I've got a swank because it's a thing I always wanted. Dash it if he didn't get into radar, which is hard to do.

Jean Rook31:21

Now this would have been my dream at his age, and I was no good, never would have been.

Jean Rook31:26

And I dreaded him being a journalist,'cause I thought, oh, if he does well, it'll be well, of course,'cause your mother had a column, and if he does badly, it'll be well, you can't write like your mother.

Presenter31:35

But you are, Jean, as I said at the beginning, um one of a of a disappearing species, the star columnist. It's true that, isn't it, that that they don't really make em like that any more. Why do you think that is?

Presenter31:47

Uh

Jean Rook31:47

Yeah.

Presenter31:48

Uh

Jean Rook31:48

It's the golden age is gone, but

Jean Rook31:49

Alastair Burnett once said something to me which I think is so true and that was just before Prince Charles's wedding, and he said, You look a bit down and I said, Oh, Alistair I said, Tomorrow there you'll all be.

Jean Rook32:00

You know instancy, movement, live and colour.

Jean Rook32:03

And what do I do the next day? And he said, Look,

Jean Rook32:06

He said, When I go to a cricket match, I watch it all but he said, What do I do the next day? Pick up my favourite writer to see if they saw it the way I do.

Jean Rook32:16

And I went into the royal wedding thinking, Yes, my view does count, and it it but me up enormously.

Jean Rook32:22

But you can't entirely do without good writing.

Presenter32:25

So are you suggesting, then, that there will be room for a successor for another First Lady of Fleet Street? Oh, I think so. Uh

Jean Rook32:31

I hope so. Yes, I'm I'm I'm sure there will. But by God, she'd better not be standing behind my chair now,'cause I'm not intending that to let her into it.

Presenter32:39

Yeah.

Jean Rook32:39

Uh

Presenter32:39

Let's have the last record.

Jean Rook32:41

Well, I I talked about my son being nineteen and keeping me up to date, and I mean he took me to a Diastrates concert, and I ended up standing on the seat waving my arms, so I'll settle for Diastrates, Romeo and Juliet.

Speaker 232:55

Come up on different streets. They both were streets of shame. Both dirty, both mean. Yes, and the dream was just the same.

Speaker 233:06

A dream your dream for you, and now your dream is real.

Speaker 233:11

How can you look at me as if I was just another one of your deals, When you can fall for chains of silver?

Speaker 233:20

You can pop it.

Presenter33:21

Uh Diastraites and Romeo and Juliet. So, Jean, you've got to it's difficult this bit, you have to choose one of those eight records as your special favourite.

Jean Rook33:29

People have always mattered more to me than anything. So I'm going to take the Eaton Boating song and have 1200 and odd

Jean Rook33:37

Young men who could once have been my lovers and now could be my sons. And who knows, they might row a bang and eight and whip me off this darn desert island.

Jean Rook33:48

Uh

Presenter33:48

And the book, you've got the complete works of Shakespeare and you've got the Bible. What's your book that you died?

Jean Rook33:53

Well I'd like the complete works of Thomas Hardy

Jean Rook33:57

Right then you think that I'm going to take Tessa the Derbervilles, and I'm not. I'm going to take the Mayor of Casterbridge.

Jean Rook34:04

and a luxury.

Jean Rook34:06

Well now h this is where you and I are going to have great difficulty as journalists, I know, because I want to take my Handbag's house computer. I realize you will not let me have the telephone, which will send it to the Daily Express.

Presenter34:15

This is true.

Jean Rook34:16

I don't wish to send the word help.

Jean Rook34:19

But I am all I could ever do in my life was communicate, and I have to tell them about the crabs coming out. So look, I will get this thing solar powered, or persuade a monkey to use its tail and, you know, lend me it as a wire at night.

Jean Rook34:32

And you'll let me have some batteries.

Presenter34:35

Should I trust you in giving you this, Gene Rook? Are you a trustworthy person?

Jean Rook34:39

Very.

Jean Rook34:40

You're pissed a

Presenter34:40

You'd be surprised.

Presenter34:41

You can have it. Gene Rook, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island discs. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 134:54

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co. uk slash radio four.