Sarah Miles

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 10:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen ninety, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:28

My Castaway this week is a film star. Expelled from that apotheosis of a polite education, Rodine, she soon found herself performing in a series of less than polite parts. When she was only eighteen, she was picked by Laurence Olivier to play the schoolgirl who tried to seduce her teacher in the film Term of Trial.

Presenter0:47

After that she entertained audiences by disturbing Dirk Bogard in The Servant and a distinguished Hollywood cast in Ryan's Daughter.

Presenter0:55

Now married to the playwright Robert Bolt for the second time, her career has been full of surprises, not only for the public, but for herself as well. Nearly two years ago she was dropped at the last minute by Peter Hall from the part of Imogen in Cymbeline at the National Theatre. Since then, however, offers of work have continued to be poured upon her. She is Sarah Miles.

Presenter1:17

Sarah, rebellious is an adjective which crops up regularly in connection with your name. Is it something you've consciously striven to be?

Presenter1:25

I don't see myself as rebellious, you see. This is my big problem, so.

Presenter1:29

So do you think you're just one of those sort of people who attracts trouble and that's just the way some people are and you're unfortunate enough to be one? I think they do. I I think you see also being an actress is quite difficult'cause an actress or actor really has to be all things to all men.

Presenter1:45

Um and I I do try terribly hard to be that.

Presenter1:48

But that's also fighting within me to be true to myself, and I think that's where the trouble really gets going. Well, we we can talk a bit, if we may, about your various dramas, both real and fictional, as the forty minutes go by. But let me ask you first of all about the attractions of of being a castaway. Do you fancy the idea?

Presenter2:06

Funny enough, we've just come back from casting away, my husband and I, on a little island in the South Seas.

Presenter2:11

And it was very, very pleasant indeed. But you can't take your husband on this one. I mean, to be all alone on a desert island with only yourself. That would be absolutely wonderful, too. I mean, I'd much rather be with my husband, but without him, I I if I cut out my animals, and I will be very, very happy alone, always happy and always will be.

Speaker 12:18

And

Presenter2:27

There would be no escape, then, on your agenda.

Presenter2:32

Pends, really, on on how tough the island was. I mean, there are islands and there are islands. I'm not quite sure about this desert island. I mean, is there food on it? I mean, I'd like to ask lots of questions about this desert island. But there all the answers are in your head, you see. You would have to make it all happen for yourself, or indeed fail to make it all happen. Ah Well, then it would be glorious.

Presenter2:51

Now what about your music that you've chosen? Is that to enhance the piece on this island or is it to remind you of wonderful moments in your life? I purposely chosen, I think, pieces that do jog memories, and I think that's probably why I've chosen them. And you one must be patient if they're boring, but they have jogged memories. Right. What's the first memory?

Presenter3:09

The first memory really is my father at at the piano. My father was an extraordinary man, and um he was very strange in that in this instant he was an adamant atheist.

Presenter3:22

And listen to the Atheist here a minute, my father singing at his piano.

Sarah Miles3:36

Chill along, Messenger Jesus coming by and by Keep it chill along like a poor angel

Sarah Miles3:49

Master Jesus coming.

Sarah Miles3:52

Fine and five.

Sarah Miles3:56

Oh, why should I die when I'm in the blue?

Sarah Miles4:01

Message Jesus coming, bye and by.

Sarah Miles4:12

Nazareth Jesus come in by

Presenter4:21

Sarah Miles' father singing um A Negro Spiritual. You obviously adored him, Sarah.

Presenter4:26

I think he was an extraordinary man, not just because he was my father. I other people seem to think that he was extraordinary also.

Presenter4:33

He was he was a very rare creature indeed. He was a wonderful father.

Presenter4:37

He liked us all. He only wanted four children to make up a tennis four. My mother had to that was the deal when they got married. If you give me four children I'll marry you. So she had to give plop, plop, plop, plop, and then he had his tennis four. So he was a very, very brilliant tennis player. He was a rugger blue. He was a fine painter, sculptor.

Presenter4:55

Carpenter, but on top of that he had a very heavy job. Um he he was a consulting engineer and designed steel works all over the world, and it was competition with all the Germans, Russians, Japanese, everything, and he always seemed to get his contracts. He was a hero, too, wasn't he? He'd won the military cross, I think he did. Indeed, he was in the cavalry in the First World War. He actually had his horse Kitty shot from under him. And when you think that your father rode to war on horseback, it's mind-boggling, really.

Speaker 25:09

Uh

Presenter5:18

Amazing. But was he therefore difficult to live up to, or or could you do no wrong in his eye?

Presenter5:25

No, he really was truly one for everybody uh living up to th their potential.

Presenter5:30

And and I think in this respect, I think he was fairly angry with with me in lots of ways because I didn't live up to what he thought I could be. He didn't really understand that I couldn't because I was stupid.

Presenter5:42

And he he thought that I wasn't stupid and that I should very well get my, you know, act together. But wasn't he proud of you when you became a famous actress? No, not at all, no.

Speaker 15:49

Oops.

Presenter5:50

It didn't mean anything to him at all. Why not?

Presenter5:54

Um, because he he didn't think I was very good, probably. Oh, no, that's not true. He did, actually. I did since Joan for him once at Worthing Rep before I became well known, and um he cried and said, My goodness, papa papuscat, you you you you can act.

Presenter6:06

and he had tears in his eyes, but that was the only moment. From then on nothing was any good for him, only Saint Joan.

Presenter6:12

But in general, obviously your your childhood was very relaxed, very easy, was it?

Presenter6:17

Until I was nine I think I was one of the most blessed. It was a dilly.

Presenter6:21

Um I was allowed to be free.

Presenter6:23

I was allowed to live in the stables, which I did, with my pig and my pony and the cocks and the hens and the

Presenter6:30

all the things that I loved, and the trees.

Presenter6:32

Until then everything was just bliss. And then for some obscure reason, because I was caught, and literally it was being caught by my mother talking to the trees.

Presenter6:42

and and and to the animal to such an extent that I think they became worried.

Presenter6:47

So they obviously thought the best thing to do was to send me away to some ghastly school.

Presenter6:51

where there were no trees and no animals. And you as well at the time, and and this is your phrase, you were a very odd sight as a child, you said.

Presenter6:59

Well, my mother kept my hair terribly short because it's pubic and she couldn't get the comb through it. So therefore you saw these strange ears that used to flap. They literally if I shook my head, they were so thin and unshaped that you could they were transparent and and you could see

Presenter7:12

Everything through them.

Presenter7:14

So I was rather teased at school because of these rather quaint things hanging about my face.

Presenter7:19

So uh you eventually had an operation on them, did you? My mother thought that um it would be wise. So I suppose the idea which was to happen some years later that you were to become a a sex symbol must have been very difficult to grasp. Yes, I couldn't get a handle on that one ever. I still can't. That was just something else altogether which was beyond my ken.

Presenter7:39

Let's pause for record number two.

Presenter7:41

Record number two is taking me back again to this idyllic childhood. My dear brother, my eldest brother, Christopher, always had Noel Coward playing, and so everything wafting down to the stables was Noel Coward.

Presenter7:54

And this was my particular favourite. Mad Dog's an Englishman. I I do consider myself to be a mad dog. Here we go.

Sarah Miles8:00

In Hong Kong, they strike a gong and fire off a noonday gun to reprimand each inmate who's inlate.

Sarah Miles8:07

In the mangrove swamps by the python rumps There is peace from twelve to two. Even caribou's lie around and snooze, for there's nothing else to do.

Sarah Miles8:15

In Bengal, to move at all is seldom, if ever, done. But may I dance and Englishmen go out in the midday, out in the midday, out in the midday, out in the midday, out in the midday, out in the midday, out in the midday sun.

Speaker 18:19

Man.

Speaker 28:24

Output transcript.

Presenter8:29

How many out in the middays were there? Well, there were eight there. I thought there was one with fifteen, but we won't we won't go into that one. Um it must but must be me miscounting as usual in the stable yard. Exaggerating.

Sarah Miles8:34

I'll let you know.

Speaker 18:37

Exaggerate

Presenter8:38

Noel Coward, that wasn't that was recorded in nineteen thirty two, in fact. Let's hear the stories o of your expulsions, if we can,'cause it sounds right out of Enid Blyton. Yes. Let's do Rodine first. Come on, how did that departure come about? Well, I had to say I was trying a little bit, because I wasn't happy. So obviously if you're not happy, you do try to to get away, and it wasn't easy.

Presenter8:57

Um but I did finally succeed. The Queen Mum was coming to visit.

Presenter9:02

And we were told we had to curtsey, say ma'am, answer her question, if she addressed us, of course, curtsey, ma'am, so the whole school was going around. You could see the whole school bobbing and practising for weeks, and then finally the great day came.

Presenter9:13

She swooshed up in a very smart black car, and I was in the junior house, and oddly enough, we were placed where the car finally came to a standstill, so out she got, looking, I may say, I think the most beautiful thing I'd ever set my eyes on except my mother, actually, who was a stunning beauty, and another annoying thing about my life, having this amazing mother. But up came

Presenter9:34

Beautiful woman dressed in blue with her periwinkle blue eyes and her skin. I mean

Presenter9:39

Even at that tender age I could tell that here was somebody.

Presenter9:43

quite remarkably beautiful.

Presenter9:45

and I was sucked into this beauty.

Presenter9:47

and she came toward us, and there was two girls before me, and

Presenter9:51

She very sweetly said, And how do you like it here?

Presenter9:54

and they curtsied mum, I love it, mum curtsy and again the same and then it made my turn and I just looked up into those

Presenter10:01

periwinkle eyes and

Presenter10:04

She says, And how do you like it here?

Presenter10:06

I said, ma'am, curtsey, I hate it, ma'am, curtsey.

Presenter10:11

And she looked at me and she went, Oh

Presenter10:15

So sweetly And then she moved on to the next girl, and that was it, as far as I was concerned. And I think that it was you know, that nothing was wrong at all.

Presenter10:24

But um obviously it was because

Presenter10:27

The housemistress, Miss Pike, was told, and

Presenter10:29

Obviously then Miss Horrobin, the headmistress. So you left Rodine? You were asked to leave Rodine? Yes. How old were you then? I was only twelve. Hm. Then I went to a a very posh girls' school called Crofton Grange School for Young Ladies.

Presenter10:42

But, um, that school was no good for me either. I think because I I actually never took an exam except when I was forced to get into Rodian and cheated'cause I had a girlfriend help me.

Presenter10:51

After that I never put pen to paper for one exam in my whole life. I I managed to actually wiggle out of everything.

Presenter10:56

So how did you get yourself expelled from that one though? Well actually it was rather naughty at that time.

Speaker 210:58

We're not

Speaker 110:58

Uh

Presenter11:01

My ears got pinned back, you see, while I was at this school, and suddenly I thought at fourteen I was the most beautiful thing in the world.

Presenter11:08

So I hitchhiked to the local town to go swimming.

Presenter11:12

And um it was of course breaking bounds, but I was so beautiful in my New Year's I wanted the whole world to see my New Year's.

Presenter11:18

And um this man said he'd pick me up, and he didn't, so I was late back for prayers.

Presenter11:23

So I was pushed out for that, which is very unfair, I think, really. I mean, I wasn't doing any harm. Very harsh. You must have had a small history, perhaps.

Presenter11:30

A little tiny history, perhaps.

Sarah Miles11:31

Yeah.

Presenter11:32

So then you got into Radha, the Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts. Yes, my mother did all that, you see. Um she even lied about my age, so I got into Rada terribly young, at fifteen. And this was what you wanted to do? This was No, no, what my mother wanted me to do. But she wasn't a pushy mother, you must understand. I think she was just totally frantic.

Speaker 111:43

Yeah.

Presenter11:48

I think a lot of actors turn to acting as a last resort because they're so hopeless at everything else, and I think I am in that category, actually.

Presenter11:55

Record number three.

Presenter11:58

Ah now this was obviously with my ears back now. I was into all this, and I heard this song of Johnny Ray's, and I didn't know what it meant.

Presenter12:06

It says L sight of her lips sexed me on fire and I couldn't think what he meant by that, but it got me all wiggly in my tummy. So it's Johnny Rae singing Such a Night. It was a kiss.

Sarah Miles12:17

What a kiss it was, it really was. Such a kiss. How she could kiss. Ooh, what a kiss it was, it really was. Such a kiss. Just the follow her lips. It sets me afire. I reminisce and I feel the desire.

Sarah Miles12:36

I gave my heart to her in sweet surrender. How well I remember

Presenter12:41

Member

Presenter12:43

I'm all

Presenter12:44

Johnny Ray singing Such a Night, which set you wondering what a kiss was like. Everything. I mean.

Presenter12:50

Just got me going. See, Elbis was my true hero, but Johnny Ray tucked in there just before. But did the reality live up to the dream when you finally were kissed? Oh, God, yes

Presenter13:02

Everything turned out super.

Presenter13:06

It's always said we won't I'm not going to press you on the kissing any f

Presenter13:10

It was always said that Sir Laurence Olivier discovered you. Now is that strictly fair?

Presenter13:15

I don't know. Um well, he was certainly there and and I suppose I had to audition with about two hundred girls for this part opposite him and

Presenter13:24

He'll always be my hero.

Presenter13:26

He was on my locker at school.

Presenter13:28

And um I'd always been deeply, deeply in love with him.

Presenter13:31

And this was for a part in in term of trial that you were t to try for the schoolgirl who tries to seduce Olivier as the teacher. So when I had to finally I queued up with all these girls and got quite mad because they were all blondes and I was very dark, then I'd dyed my hair black and I knew I I was wasting my time being auditioned, so I got quite stroppy when I finally got in and said, Look

Speaker 113:36

Who tries to sedate

Speaker 113:37

Arise

Speaker 113:39

So

Presenter13:50

I'm late back to Worthing Rep, and you obviously don't need me at all.

Presenter13:53

And they said, Calm down, calm down, and and just read and of course I couldn't read very well either. So I went back to Welling Rab, thinking I hadn't got the part at all. And then, um, hey, Presto, I was, um, brought back again, and this time he was in the room.

Presenter14:05

And I'd had the script for a bit this time, so I'd done a bit of practice in case I was called back.

Presenter14:09

and then I had to do a love scene with him in the room.

Presenter14:11

Of course it was easy as pie.

Presenter14:13

'Cause there he was, and I'd loved him all my life, so it was that's like falling off a log. But you weren't blonde? No. And then they said to me, you know, you'll have to dye your hair.

Presenter14:22

And um I said, but I um I I'm afraid I can't do that because my hair is already dyed black and it will it's you know, it's very, very curly and it will drop out.

Presenter14:31

And and they said, um, well, I'm afraid we do need it.

Presenter14:34

Blonde and I said, Well, I do think that's a cliche. I mean, why does somebody have to be blonde to be sexy?

Presenter14:39

And, um, they said, Well, thank you very much. So I went back even more furious to Worthing Rep. And, um, anyhow, three weeks later I was asked if I'd wear a wig. And you did? Yeah. And you did the part. Yes, it did well look like a wig, I must say.

Presenter14:51

Then there was your next film. You got The Ceremony, I think, with Lawrence Harvey after that. Yes, indeed, I did.

Speaker 114:56

Yes

Presenter14:57

That's right. And that caused a big stir because you appeared in the nude, didn't you?

Presenter15:01

So I think I was probably right up there with the frontrunners of that. Yes. Was it a big decision for you to take your clothes off? No, I've never really been bothered about clothes or not clothes. I quite like women's bodies. I really like them quite a lot. I'm not madly keen on men's bodies with nothing on, but I do like women's bodies and nothing on. So that was all all right. And in fact, you were then established, weren't you? You were hailed as most promising newcomer and um Turner Trowell did that. I actually had the most ridiculously amazing reviews for that and and I didn't deserve them at all and and of course um I knew I didn't so I sort of shelled back really. I went back into my shell because I didn't really think that I knocked him off the screen and I I don't think that I deserve what I got on that one. And then the rest really followed. The greatest find of the decade. He called you Olivier called you that. Yes, bless his heart.

Presenter15:44

Shall we leave you on the crest of this success and just for a minute and have the next bit of music? What's that?

Speaker 115:48

And that's another

Presenter15:51

I lost my virginity to this one, and it's always stuck with me before and since. What is the music? Yes. My virginity I think is coming back actually. But this this this has always stuck with me.

Speaker 115:56

What airs the music?

Presenter16:06

Uh

Sarah Miles16:06

For sale

Sarah Miles16:15

Appetizing young love for herself

Sarah Miles16:26

If you want to buy my wares, follow me and climb the stairs.

Presenter16:35

Ella Fitzgerald and Love for Sale.

Presenter16:38

Sarah, the mid-sixties, I think we got to, and the film The Servant, which was a huge hit, and you starred with Dirk Bogart. Now, that's right. Now, that's where.

Speaker 116:44

Now the

Presenter16:47

Things did go a bit wrong with my family. For some reason they went to see a preview. I was then doing all right and had bought myself a little home in in in Chelsea.

Presenter16:56

And

Presenter16:57

They

Presenter16:58

I knew they'd been to see it and they came to knock on my door and I was all, you know, thrilled about hearing their compliments, and they came in and

Presenter17:05

They had decided, after seeing this, that they were going to disown me.

Presenter17:09

They thought it was deeply shocking. It shocked them. And I think it was a deeply shocking film at the time. Because you were a seductress, a temporary, and the whole thing of homosexuality, which really hadn't been been used before. The whole film, I think, not just me in it.

Speaker 117:18

Poof.

Presenter17:21

And there was a rather naughty scene in that with me, I suppose, and um a couple of naughty scenes.

Presenter17:25

But um

Presenter17:26

Next week, of course, the reviews came out, and they were over the moon.

Presenter17:31

Then came those magnificent men in their flying machines, then came Blow Up, all great successes, but you suddenly hated the whole business.

Presenter17:41

I was interested in life, really. I've always been a very fascinated in life.

Presenter17:45

And if you're a success, you you don't really get a grip on life.

Presenter17:51

And if you have a success so terribly young as I was fortunate or unfortunate to do.

Presenter17:56

You tend to um not really get a glimpse of who you are.

Presenter18:01

So I I need really to work less and to try to find out a little bit more about life. You became a bit of a recluse, hm?

Presenter18:08

I see I've always been accused of that. I don't quite know what a recluse means, insofar as

Presenter18:13

If you w like to be with with animals and nature, uh then I was a recluse, yes.

Presenter18:17

It was round about that time, wasn't it, that you met the man who was going to change your life with capital letters, Robert Bolt. Indeed. Where and how did you meet him?

Speaker 218:24

Indeed.

Presenter18:27

Well, this recluse business was getting on my agent's nerves, and he was really upset because he said you're not going to have a career if you A I wouldn't go abroad because of my animals.

Presenter18:35

And B, um

Presenter18:37

I wouldn't go anywhere to meet anybody. So he got really fed up with this.

Presenter18:41

And uh one day I was asked to go to some soiree of Leslie Carroll's. I didn't know who Leslie Carroll was, and I certainly didn't want to go to a soiree. But he got quite annoyed about this for some reason. He and his secretary they came to my home and barged in and put me into my clothes.

Presenter18:57

put me into a taxi and took me to Montpelier Square where Leslie Carroll lived and bunged me through the front door. And um there was m Leslie Carroll who was very beautiful and charming and um Warren Beatty was there, who I oddly enough, we forgot to mention it, but I did have a walk-on part when I was at Rada with Roman Spring and Mrs. Stone where I met Vivian Lee and and Warren Beatty, so I was very lucky to have that walk-on part.

Presenter19:19

So I did know Warren, but not in the way that one normally knows Warren, I have to quickly add. I wasn't one of those.

Presenter19:26

Um there was a strange atmosphere in the room, I thought, and I am always very nervous at these dues, so I took myself they gave me a drink, and I went to sat and sit on a sofa, and everybody was very smart, and I wasn't, because I'd been put into these strange clothes by my agent.

Presenter19:38

And and on this sofa was sitting this man who had his shirt sleeves all rolled up.

Presenter19:43

And I really liked that,'cause, you know, it didn't look quite in place with the rest. So I said to him, Why are your shirt sleeves all rolled up?

Presenter19:50

He said, Because I'm hot, puffing on his pipe.

Presenter19:55

And uh I like that immediately, you know, a good answer to a silly question, really.

Presenter20:00

And that was the beginning for us, really. That was it. What then were the qualities? I mean, apart from the fact that he didn't mind looking different from everybody else around him, what were the qualities, what are the qualities, that qualify him as being right for you? Well, he is.

Presenter20:13

He's a wizard, you see. He's as near as I've ever found to amuse.

Presenter20:20

The spirit just pours out of him without

Presenter20:23

Without any guile or manipulation. It's just a pure flow. There is a purity and an innocence. And I put innocence at the top of all the qualities of human nature. You were married then for, what, nine years before you were divorced? Yes, I think something like that. I'm not good at counting. And then.

Speaker 120:38

Yeah.

Speaker 120:40

Yeah.

Presenter20:40

There was a gap of ten years and and and then you remarried you met again and you remarried a few years ago. That's right, that's right. Is it can I ask is it very different a second time around? Oh, it's so much better.

Speaker 220:50

Oh, it's

Presenter20:52

We've both had to go through such.

Presenter20:54

Huge journeys to grow and to get to where we are now.

Presenter20:59

He's now much more

Presenter21:01

of everything that I could possibly have thought he ever could be and um

Presenter21:06

I mean, he just puts that with me, doesn't he?

Presenter21:09

Did you always sort of know that you'd get back together again?

Presenter21:12

I always thought that life would

Presenter21:14

make a circle again and it did.

Presenter21:17

And how did you feel when it did, when you remet?

Presenter21:20

Well, I do feel totally um ridiculously blessed at the moment, um I have to say.

Presenter21:28

Some music.

Presenter21:29

Next I'd like to have some Mozart. This is a very lovely piece, this is always in my car.

Presenter22:35

Mozart's concerto number five in A major for violin and orchestra, with Anne Sophie Mutter and the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Herbert von Carrian.

Presenter22:44

It was your husband, Sarah, Robert Bolt, who who wooed you back into films, wasn't it? He wrote Ryan's daughter. Correct. He did. He did do that. I didn't know that it was being written for me, in fact. And then I met David and and David Lean, who wrote that's right. Are you proud of that one, in hindsight?

Speaker 122:58

That's right.

Presenter23:01

I am. Um, oddly enough, um, I think it stands out well and and I can tell how much it's loved by the response it always gets when it's on. Um I think it's like a a good wine. It it you know, it betters with age. Robert also wrote Lady Caroline Lamb for you, didn't he? Indeed he did. 1973. He said it it was your part and he described her as

Presenter23:24

Arrogant, extrovert in emotion, impossible, tempestuous, and fragile.

Presenter23:29

Did you recognize yourself in that description?

Presenter23:34

Yes, paps, paps. Tempestuous, impossible.

Presenter23:38

I don't know. I'm I

Presenter23:41

Um in those days I was a lot worse. I I think I've I I've gone through huge painful kind of uh

Presenter23:48

looking inwardnesses, and um I hope I'm putting a bit of that to right, but I have a long way to go. Pain is a word that crops up quite often alongside rebellious when one reads about you.

Presenter23:59

Well, I mean, I think everybody's life is painful. Everybody's life is joyful. I mean, I don't think mine's been necessarily any more painful than anybody else's, to be honest. It does seem also, reading about you, that that you're the sort of woman for whom men fall very easily and become very desperate about very easily. Do you think that's true?

Presenter24:16

I have had a few suicides around me. Um

Presenter24:19

And I don't quite know why that is, but but I haven't had any lately, so I think I've got a handle on what that is. People seem to think I have a certain strength.

Presenter24:26

That they think they can cling on to. And what I'm trying to let them know nowadays is that it it isn't a strength at all.

Presenter24:34

And then perhaps they won't cling.

Presenter24:36

But your your husband apart, I mean, do you think that you attract a a certain kind of man?

Presenter24:42

I'm aware that something happens, and I'm not totally sure what it is.

Presenter24:46

Uh so I'm still looking into that one.

Presenter24:48

But perhaps it's it's men who are slightly weak, a bit vulnerable, perhaps even

Presenter24:52

A bit unstable.

Presenter24:54

No, it hasn't been. It's been the most extraordinarily wonderful, brilliant man. So you you haven't enjoyed being the sort of women for whom men fall?

Presenter25:03

No, because all it does is bring disaster upon its heels. No, I I don't enjoy that at all.

Presenter25:09

So we have another record. It's number six, I think.

Presenter25:13

When everything went wrong between me and my husband the first time around, I went to live in America, where I thought I could be anonymous, and I was right, because there

Presenter25:21

If you go to the Himalayas to be anonymous, you're still Ryan's daughter. But if you go to LA to be anonymous,

Presenter25:26

Then Ryan's daughter Schmorter, you're just nothing compared to all the other greats that are around you, so you can breathe easy, and I did need desperately to breathe easy, and I chose the right place for that, being a mere tiddler in an ocean of sharks.

Presenter25:39

And um I did like the feeling when I got out there of the optimism. I see them as youth compared to us middle-aged in in England and them youth and with youth this song uh what it's saying it goes terribly with the feeling of hopefulness and I do love hopefulness and it is um from a film that I loved called The Harder They Come.

Sarah Miles25:59

Win and lose, you've got to get your share

Sarah Miles26:02

Got your mind set on a tree

Sarah Miles26:06

We can get it, don't want it to see now.

Sarah Miles26:10

You can get it if you really want.

Sarah Miles26:14

You can get it if you really want

Sarah Miles26:18

You can get it if you really want, but you must try.

Sarah Miles26:22

Try and try, try and try.

Sarah Miles26:27

You'll succeed at

Presenter26:29

Jimmy Clift singing You Can Get It If You Really Want from the film The Harder They Come.

Presenter26:34

Um, Sarah, it was just about, I think, two years ago that Sir Peter Hall asked you to play Imogen in Cymbeline at the National, which he was directing. I think it's the largest part for a woman that Shakespeare wrote, isn't it? Yes, I think it is.

Presenter26:47

So by its very nature it was a testing part, um and under Sir Peter, and the National very prestigious, you must have been thrilled to be offered it.

Presenter26:54

No, I was very wary, actually. Um I didn't really want to be offered at all I mean, to do it at all,'cause I had a very big film coming up. But um he gives great phone, Peter Hall. He's very, very good on the phone, and he wooed me.

Presenter27:09

On the phone.

Presenter27:11

I also wanted to work with Robert Edison again, who was at my symboline.

Presenter27:16

He's one of my favorite actors of all time. I worked with him when I was very young and

Presenter27:20

I've loved him ever since, so.

Presenter27:22

I thought that was a good enough reason to go. What did Sir Peter say to woo you on the phone?

Presenter27:27

I made him audition me.

Presenter27:28

and um he was deeply complimentary about my verse, my acting and everything, so I knew I was on for a safe ride.

Presenter27:35

And indeed everything did go very safely, and I was um the bell of the ball.

Presenter27:39

until he fired Robert Edison in front of the company.

Presenter27:43

And I I couldn't take it. I'm in a Capricorn and I I will not take injustices.

Presenter27:48

So when he took him out, when when uh Robert said, Are you firing me, Peter? he said, Yes. He said, Well, could you

Presenter27:53

So I said, Come on, I'll take you outside and he took him out the room. So the whole company was on in the theatre, and I said, Um

Presenter27:59

Oh we can let that happen. Did I hear right? Did he fire him?

Presenter28:04

And nothing seemed to happen. Everyone seemed to sort of wither away into the into the woodwork. And I said, But he's the best thing we've got. He he's he's miraculous in this part.

Presenter28:13

But what's going on?

Presenter28:16

So there was silence around me, so I I went out alone.

Presenter28:21

And, um, tell Peter how un unjust it was.

Presenter28:24

And that was it really. From then on I I didn't really have a hell's chance.

Presenter28:28

How much later was it that he sacked you? Um, not much later. There was still a month to go before we opened. So, um I don't know what it was all about. And it was um extraordinary.

Presenter28:39

thing to have happened. Anyway, the point being that it's um it's over now. But it it did take a bit of getting over. But it was a bit of a a a face over, a bit of an insult, wasn't it? He said, and it it was made public, wasn't it? He said you couldn't make the final leap.

Presenter28:52

Well, I mean, if if there was a whole month to go, what leap was he talking about? A a month's quite a long time to make a leap, and it's all bullshit anyway.

Presenter28:59

Well, you you believed you were doing the part very well anyway, did you? I know I was. In fact, my husband came to see it the night before I was fired, and he was over the moon, and my husband's a damn tough critic.

Speaker 128:59

No you you

Presenter29:08

So what do you think Sir Peter Hall's motive was?

Presenter29:11

I don't know, and and I I I really don't want to go into it because, um

Presenter29:16

I've come to the point now where it's I've done all the searching and and the bewilderment and the agony and all that and

Presenter29:23

I now have to say that I feel deeply s you know, it it it's a pity. I pity the man. I pity the man if he has a conscience, and I pity him if he hasn't. It hasn't damaged your career, by all accounts, has it? Not at all. In fact, I have never had so many letters from

Presenter29:38

people of great merit who who have also um suffered.

Presenter29:42

So it it did a world of good for me, and also it shocked me into a a whole other

Presenter29:48

Um

Presenter29:49

life, which is wonderful. And we wouldn't have found our home in the country, which we'd been searching for for three years, if I had still been at the National. So I every time I go home to our magic home, I um I have to say thank you Peter Hall.

Presenter30:02

Sir Peter has left the National now, of course. Um might you therefore go there and do a bit of Shakespeare at some point? Would you like to do that? Yes, I would. I would like to to set the record straight, obviously, because um I know I was doing a good job and I'm a great professional actually and I and I would like to do a good job again. But

Presenter30:17

If it's God's will it'll happen, and I I have to say I do follow God's will.

Presenter30:21

The next record.

Presenter30:23

Now

Presenter30:24

I was in the pool.

Presenter30:26

In the jungle

Presenter30:28

And

Presenter30:29

I met uh an elephant called Shampshah. He was a bull elephant.

Presenter30:33

And I saw

Presenter30:35

very seriously in love with with Champshire.

Presenter30:38

I was allowed to feed him, to wash him, ride him even without the mahut, wh which was um

Presenter30:44

Quite an honour, because it seemed and it just wasn't me fantasizing, Shampshire did love me, or he he liked to have me around.

Presenter30:53

So I got closer and closer to Shampshire, which was obviously a very silly thing to do, because when it came time to leave, um, it was very hard for me.

Presenter31:01

and he took me to the river, where I had to take a boat across, and he got down on his knees to um let me off.

Presenter31:07

and I I I I was in fact weeping, and I got on to the little boat to go across.

Presenter31:13

And suddenly

Presenter31:15

The noise shattered me. It was like this great, huge

Presenter31:21

cry of hopeful adios but pain, you know, and

Presenter31:27

It will remain with me for many a lifetime.

Presenter31:37

I presume, therefore, on on the island that the the sounds of the wildlife are going to um to be as much comfort to you as the music in my mind.

Presenter31:45

Absolutely and more so, to be absolutely honest.

Presenter31:48

I I do love the sound of nature.

Presenter31:50

You live in in the countryside these days. You said you you bought a house in Hampshire with Robert, whom you've nursed through a a huge stroke, haven't you? Yes, I mean I I I hate to put myself in the position of being nurse. Um I have been very fortunate to be with him during this period because it's it's very enlightening and rewarding to be every day with a new miracle, you know, and it is living with a miracle is a real turn on, to be honest. He wasn't able to speak for a long time, was he? No, he couldn't speak or move for two years.

Presenter32:18

But today he's much improved. To day he is quite quite extraordinary. Um his his writing has, I believe, better than ever.

Presenter32:25

Um his speech is it is he gets very shy when he's with people. With me his speech is pretty well back to normal, but um if he gets tired or a bit shy, he because he used to be such a extraordinarily eloquent man when he was young.

Presenter32:37

Before his stroke, I mean.

Presenter32:39

So have you have you finally f found a kind of peace then, Sarah, at home? A kind of peace. It's the most it's the most extraordinary uh situation we found ourselves in.

Presenter32:48

Um, I've done a full circle'cause my childhood I was I was born in a very old home with lattice windows and animals and

Presenter32:55

I found myself back with lattice windows and and um all my animals, so it it it is quite incredible. I don't want to get sentimental over this, so let's just say I'm a damn lucky woman. Would you mind if you never went out to work again, if you never acted again? No, acting's been very good to me. I can always improve and get better, and I always like to in everything to to get better, so hopefully I will go on forever and always get better.

Presenter33:19

But it isn't the only thing in my life. My my main thing in life is to be a better creature, really, myself, really. That's m more important than anything else. And like Wine and Ryan's daughter, you're improving with age.

Presenter33:31

Ha ha ha.

Presenter33:33

Let's have your last record.

Presenter33:35

My last record is Robert and I used to sing this a lot together when uh before his stroke and we're now practicing again.

Presenter33:42

I like to do the washing up, or sweep the floors, or do my spring cleaning to this particular little number. It is stars and stripes forever.

Presenter34:42

SUSE's March, Stars and Stripes Forever, played by the CW S Manchester Band, conducted by Alex Mortimer.

Presenter34:50

Now, Sarah, which of the uh eight records do you want more than any of the others?

Presenter34:55

I'll take Daddy singing.

Presenter34:57

Bloody hell to hell with it I'm sentimental, Oli idiot, yes, I will.

Presenter35:01

Your father singing the Negro spiritual

Presenter35:03

Then you've got to choose a book. Have you thought about this one? You've got the Bible and you've got the complete works of Shakespeare. Yes, well, that'll take me a lifetime.

Presenter35:10

I think I will take the Ai Ching, because the Ai Ching is unfashionable and because it's slightly flowery, but if you look beneath the floweriness, there is a truth there that is quite quite

Presenter35:24

unique and um I would not want to be without the IT.

Presenter35:28

And your luxury?

Presenter35:31

I can't make up my mind between my word processor that's taken me three and a half years to learn or my hot water bottle.

Presenter35:37

'Cause I do always have a water bottle wherever I go, I take it with me as my comforter.

Presenter35:41

To lose my comforter. Well, maybe my word processor will become my comforter, so I'll take my word processor.

Speaker 235:46

Right. Sarah Miles, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Speaker 135:58

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.