Jack Lemmon

Speaker 20:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 20:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen eighty nine.

Speaker 20:11

And the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:28

My Castaway this week is a Hollywood star with an unusual reputation. You can't find anyone to say a bad word about him. His versatility has earned him a career that's lasted forty years. He's twice won an Oscar and been nominated eight times. He gained recognition as a comic actor in films like Some Like It Hot and The Odd Couple, and as a serious one in The China Syndrome and Missing, and he's a fine stage actor too.

Presenter0:54

Now, sixty four, he can look back on a series of enviable achievements and say, The worst part about being me is when people want me to make them laugh. He is, of course, Jack Lemmon. Mind you, with a name like Lemmon, Jack, I presume you got used to being laughed at from a very early age.

Jack Lemmon1:09

That's very true, and I'll tell you what's worse.

Jack Lemmon1:12

My middle name God, I don't know why my father stuck me with this. My middle name actually my name is John when I was called Jack all my life, as was my dad.

Jack Lemmon1:22

And his name was John Euler Lemon Jr. I am John Euler Lemon III. I don't know where this Euler came from, but it's U-H-L-E-R. So it was Jack U. Lemon. And all I heard for about 10 years at school was. It was Jack Eulemon. I could have killed my father.

Presenter1:41

Did you never consider changing it?

Jack Lemmon1:43

No, I didn't, but uh I'm really still known as Jack Lemmon over uh Harry Cohen's dead body, really, uh, who was when I first went into films, fifty three, I think, when I signed with Columbia and did my first film.

Jack Lemmon1:56

He wanted to change it.

Jack Lemmon1:58

Now by then I had uh oh God, I'd done hundreds of live T V shows back in the old days, late forties and early fifties, and I had played a lead on Broadway and so forth, and all with my name.

Jack Lemmon2:10

He wanted to change it because he said, My God, the critics will use it like a baseball bat. They'll be saying Cohen has a lemon, Columbia's got a lemon, lemon is a lemon, and so forth, and I would have none of it. As a joke, I asked him, I said, Well, what would you change it to? and he said Lennon.

Jack Lemmon2:30

And of course this was long before John.

Jack Lemmon2:33

And again, as a joke, I said, Lennon. I said, how would you spell it? He said, L-E-N-N-O-N instead of L-E-M-M-O-N. And I said, but you pronounce it Lennon. And he said, yes. And I said, well, they'll think I'm a Russian revolutionary. He said, no, I looked that up. That's Lenin. And.

Presenter2:51

But anyway, eight uh Oscar nominations to your credit. I think that's more than Olivia, isn't it?

Jack Lemmon2:56

No, I don't think so. I think Olivier and Tracy uh had nine, I think, or something like that.

Presenter3:01

We just pipped you.

Jack Lemmon3:02

The

Presenter3:02

Well, we British have very little that we can offer to rival the Oscars, but we like to think that to offer to maroon you on a desert island that might come close. Do you relish the idea of the splendid isolation of that?

Jack Lemmon3:02

Yeah.

Jack Lemmon3:10

Yeah.

Jack Lemmon3:15

In some ways, yes. I think that after a while I probably would get terribly lonely. I'm not th that self-stimulating, I guess.

Presenter3:23

What about the first record you've chosen? Eight you have to take with you as you know. So

Jack Lemmon3:26

I picked one in this case a cold porter tune, just one of those things. But mainly played by Art Tatum because m most of these records I have picked not just because I happened to like that particular piece of music, but because it had an influence on my life. So chauvinistically I remember a period

Jack Lemmon3:47

And um I play piano myself, but only by ear, unfortunately.

Jack Lemmon3:52

And when I was very young I took lessons for well, I don't know, four three or four months, five months, whatever, and did not take to it. I was about eight or nine.

Jack Lemmon4:01

And so my family didn't force it on me.

Jack Lemmon4:03

And then when I went away to school at thirteen, to boarding school,

Jack Lemmon4:08

There was a piano in the dormitory.

Jack Lemmon4:10

and uh a friend of mine to this day named Charlie Arnold, who was a classmate, and he played the piano.

Jack Lemmon4:17

And so everybody would gather around before supper and after, and Charlie would play some show tunes and some Gershwin or Porter or Kern or whatever.

Jack Lemmon4:25

And I looked and I thought, hell, I can do that for some insane reason. So I started.

Jack Lemmon4:31

fooling around by ear, in between classes and everything, and sneaking into the music building where they had a whole bunch of rooms with pianos in them.

Jack Lemmon4:39

and almost flunked out of school because I I just suddenly fell in love with music. And at the same time I started hearing Art Tatum records.

Jack Lemmon4:47

I adored the way that man played and it would be important to me to have one of his recordings.

Presenter5:22

Art Tatum playing just one of those things. So, Jack, you might have been a musician, not an actor, then?

Jack Lemmon5:27

It's possible. It's been the other passion in my life. After I got through with school, university, when I went down to New York to try to save the American theater, which for some peculiar reason they wouldn't let me do, I also was vitally interested in trying to sell songs. I've still got five thousand songs in a trunk.

Jack Lemmon5:46

So I was in and out of the Brill building, which was the big building where most of the music publishers were, in and around the theater district.

Jack Lemmon5:52

uh in New York at the same time that I was trying to get in to see agents or get bit parts or be a super well anything I could, you know, to get into the theater.

Presenter6:00

So the acting bug had already bitten.

Jack Lemmon6:02

Yes, that's oh gosh, that started got around eight or nine years old. And I can remember it vividly. It it was uh a mistake.

Presenter6:06

And I can remember.

Jack Lemmon6:09

A very, very lucky mistake. At school

Jack Lemmon6:13

And I'm guessing at eight or nine. I know it was no older that was no older than nine.

Jack Lemmon6:18

And during uh lunch period they were going to do a little one act play of some kind or other, and a boy lived across the street from me and a friend of mine to this day named Billy Tyler.

Jack Lemmon6:29

had been rehearsing and was going to play a little part in it. He had one speech, and he had to come out center stage and just face the audience and say about ten or twelve lines, something like that.

Jack Lemmon6:40

Now Billy was a oh, a good six seven inches taller than mine. He was a big boy.

Jack Lemmon6:45

All over his head was bigger, he was much taller, he was huge compared to me.

Jack Lemmon6:49

So when we go to school at morning, the teacher comes up to me early in the first class and said, Billy is sick, he's got a bad cold, and he isn't at school today, so you're going to play his part. And I said, How?

Jack Lemmon7:00

And they said I said, You I'll well I'll just I'll go out and I'll read the lines. They said, No, no, no, no. Um in between classes, here are the lines. There's only twelve of them in one speech. You learn what you can, and if you get stuck

Jack Lemmon7:12

After you start, then just stop, just stroll over from center stage to the wings, and I'll be sitting there with the book, and I will whisper the next line to you.

Jack Lemmon7:23

Uh I said, Okay.

Jack Lemmon7:25

So I showed up for the thing, I went backstage and I put on this big black wide, sort of a cowboy type hat that Billy was wearing that fitted him.

Jack Lemmon7:35

But he came down with my ears sticking down it almost over my ears, and right down to my eyebrows.

Jack Lemmon7:41

and a cape that came down behind his knees. Well, with me it was like Marie Antoinette's train, I mean, you know, dragging out behind me.

Jack Lemmon7:49

There's black cape and this black hat, and comes my cue

Jack Lemmon7:53

And he gives me a shove, and on I stumble and out to center sta well, they started to laugh before I opened my mouth because of the way I look.

Jack Lemmon8:01

So I said the first line or so

Jack Lemmon8:05

that I could vaguely remember, and then in a mid-sentence just

Jack Lemmon8:09

Stopped.

Jack Lemmon8:11

And I looked up

Jack Lemmon8:13

And then I just walked over to the side and sort of leaned a bit.

Jack Lemmon8:18

and you could hear him very loud giving me the line. I nodded, walked back to center sta well, they started to roar immediately. Everybody knew, even the kids knew what was it. Well, a peculiar thing happened that really turned it was a very important moment in my life.

Jack Lemmon8:34

Something made me realize that instead of being totally embarrassed, which could happen, I don't know, a little bulb went off in the bag and said, I think I like this, because I realized I could keep doing it.

Speaker 48:45

Hmm.

Jack Lemmon8:45

And they would keep laughing.

Speaker 48:46

Mm.

Jack Lemmon8:47

I must have done it seven times, and it just built and built, and then finally, with a great sigh of relief, I said the last word and raised my fingers in triumph and walked off, and they burst into applause.

Speaker 48:59

25.

Speaker 29:00

Uh

Jack Lemmon9:00

From that moment on, so help me God, I never thought about anything for my future.

Jack Lemmon9:07

Except being an actor.

Speaker 49:09

Uh

Presenter9:09

Let's pause there and have the second record, shall we? What's that?

Jack Lemmon9:12

Oh, George Gershwin. Ah again, away at school.

Jack Lemmon9:17

The kid who lived in the room next to me

Jack Lemmon9:19

loved Gershwin, and he was playing all kinds of Gershwin songs from various shows, and uh I thought it would be wonderful to have a record of Gershwin playing Gershwin, but I must tell you, strangely enough, I adore, I revere

Jack Lemmon9:31

Gershwin.

Jack Lemmon9:33

But I never did think that he played his own music as well as everybody else does. I really don't. But anyway, I picked one of my favorite songs that he wrote, Someone to Watch Over Me, with George playing it. And I haven't heard it for years, and I truly don't remember it. But I'll guarantee you that instead of playing it slowly, in which it which really reveals how beautiful the melody is, he'll play it upbeat, I think. Now watch, I may be dead wrong. But he'll play it upbeat in sort of ricky-tiky, I think. But let's see.

Speaker 410:51

Uh

Presenter10:52

Ha ha

Presenter10:54

George Gershrim with a very ricky-ticky version of someone to watch over

Jack Lemmon10:58

Okay, so

Presenter10:58

The tip.

Jack Lemmon10:58

Isn't that awful? But it's wonderful to have, you know, and just to realize that the man wrote such beautiful music and to him that was just a little ricky tikki dance tune. And of course it's when it's played. It's so gorgeous.

Presenter11:07

Yeah.

Presenter11:12

Quite nice to be able to say you could play it better than him, really.

Jack Lemmon11:15

I think I could. I really do.

Jack Lemmon11:17

If with all if uh oh, is he spinning in his grade? Well anyone.

Presenter11:21

Let's go back to the beginning, Jack, and and talk about your mother and father. First of all, your mother, Mildred, who gave birth to you in a lift, yeah?

Jack Lemmon11:27

Yeah.

Presenter11:28

Yeah.

Jack Lemmon11:29

As far as she was said, and I think it was going down.

Jack Lemmon11:33

Anyway, she swears that's why I was an only child. She said that's it. After that experience, it jammed.

Jack Lemmon11:40

They were playing bridge, my mother and father, and uh apparently her water broke finally before she would admit that something was strange, because they were winning.

Jack Lemmon11:49

And uh they did they didn't want to quit.

Presenter11:50

So you wanted to get the money.

Jack Lemmon11:50

Then there was the mad dash in the car or this and that, and it almost happened in the car. Then when they got in the lift in the lobby of the Newton Wellesley Hospital, just outside of Boston, Mass, where I was born and raised, it got stuck. That did it. She said never again. And so I was an only child.

Presenter12:07

Your father your father was big in doughnuts.

Jack Lemmon12:07

Yeah.

Jack Lemmon12:10

Yeah. Donut actually uh it the the company he worked for was called the Donut Corporation of America, but what they they were into everything, breads and uh uh everything that had to do with mixed flour and so forth.

Presenter12:22

But where your mother was um wacky, I think you said, he was quite the opposite. He was really rather reserved and rather distinguished.

Jack Lemmon12:25

He

Jack Lemmon12:29

Yeah, compared to Millie, yes. Yes, he was. But he was a great deal of fun and uh extremely popular. He really had a terrific personality and uh great sense of humor. But uh compared to Millie, who was really absolutely wacko, as I said, uh he was sedate compared to her. She she was often compared to Tallulah Bankette. You know, a real nut.

Presenter12:50

We begin to see where you get it all from. Let's have the third record, shall we?

Jack Lemmon12:56

Oh, Big Spiderbeck. I would that was the beginning of my falling in love with Dixieland and jazz per se. Again, that that first year away at school, that whole the whole evolution of me and an appreciation of music really started around 12 and 13 years old. And I went into a little record shop and I saw this an old 78 and it said Bick Spiderbeck.

Jack Lemmon13:17

and uh Goose Pimples. And th then I said, Goose Pimples? What kind of a song is named Goose Pimples? and I put it on and this cornet riff came out with him playing the coronet that absolutely knocked me out. And I then from then on started to search out for Dixie Land and jazz in general.

Jack Lemmon13:34

Yeah.

Presenter14:31

BICK SPIDERBECK AND HIS GANG PLAYING GOOSPIMPLES.

Presenter14:35

Tell me, Jack, about after Harvard. You went to New York and you went into television. That was really where you were

Jack Lemmon14:40

It really was uh you know, I've ke and I'm sure I will say this often, I keep saying good fortune, good fortune, good luck, or this and that. But I really mean it. There's so much that I have to be thankful for, but maybe if I had to pick one thing

Presenter14:40

Yeah.

Jack Lemmon14:55

I think maybe the overall thing that was the most important thing was when I was born.

Jack Lemmon15:01

When I went down to New York, for instance,

Jack Lemmon15:04

I did not even think of television. I didn't even know about it. Television was just beginning to burgeon.

Jack Lemmon15:10

you know, and after I was down there for, oh, about a year or so, and still knocking my head against doors and so forth, I finally got a part in live television.

Jack Lemmon15:20

Then all of a sudden, because I got that first one, and it was a good part, two or three other directors happened to see it. The next thing I knew, the phone was ringing, and I ended up doing literally four to five hundred shows in the next four or five years. And it was like rep, because, yes, there was cameras, but, my Lord, once it started, it was like the theater, because that was it.

Jack Lemmon15:41

There was no retakes. There was no cut, let's do it again. If you went up or the other one went up, you kept right on going. So the training w was absolutely invaluable. And out of that,

Jack Lemmon15:52

When I did my first Broadway show I played a lead.

Jack Lemmon15:55

And I was able to handle it.

Jack Lemmon15:57

Then when I did my first film, I played a lead, and instead of going completely crazy, it was just another step to me. I was just delighted because it was a good part.

Presenter16:06

But who were your rivals, as it were? Who were the young actors who were around?

Jack Lemmon16:08

Walter, Mathow, Chuck Heston, I had worked with Rod Steiger and Paul Newman above all.

Jack Lemmon16:19

And you know, Paul and I have been very close friends and trying to find a picture together for five thousand years. We haven't found one yet. But we will. We will one of these days.

Presenter16:28

But what golden years you talk about to throw up all those new

Jack Lemmon16:28

What golden years

Jack Lemmon16:30

They were wonderful. And now, when you think back in those days, too, the writers, Patty Chaevsky, whose name I couldn't pronounce, and I did two or three of his shows, and I thought, man, this guy writes terrific long speeches. I love him. Chaoski, whoever. And Rod Serling and J.P. Miller, whom I did several of his scripts. And then eventually he came up with one called The Days of Wine and Roses. And Hello, Charlie. I mean, there we go. That was.

Presenter16:57

A film which changed your career, really, didn't it? I mean that that was the bridge, wasn't it, between being a comic actor and a film?

Jack Lemmon16:58

Yeah.

Jack Lemmon17:00

Rest of it.

Jack Lemmon17:01

You're being a comedy. And I was desperately seeking a drama because I felt rather incomplete. I knew that I could do drama. I had done as much drama as comedy, but not in film.

Jack Lemmon17:16

Until that one.

Presenter17:17

Let's have the next record.

Jack Lemmon17:18

Sure.

Jack Lemmon17:19

Yeah. Again, is this Dixieland? Because I would want one pure Dixieland and it could be, I must say, anything except I picked one the Saints Go Marching In because that was one of the all time

Jack Lemmon17:30

There wasn't a Dixieland band that ever lived that hasn't played When the Saints Go Marching In, and probably more than any other single song.

Speaker 418:12

Thanks.

Speaker 418:14

Market in

Speaker 418:16

Saints go marching in

Speaker 418:20

People are that one

Speaker 418:22

Re infinite number

Speaker 418:24

When the streets go marching in

Speaker 418:29

I won't.

Speaker 418:31

Yeah.

Speaker 418:33

I watch that glory road.

Speaker 418:37

Lord I want

Speaker 418:38

The infinite number

Presenter18:44

Firehouse Five Plus Two playing when the Saints Go Marching In. Let's talk Jack Lemmon about nineteen fifty nine. Some like it hot. It's a terrific film.

Jack Lemmon18:52

Yeah.

Presenter18:52

W was it as much fun to make as it was to watch?

Jack Lemmon18:56

Oh, God, it was it's very funny. Billy Wilder, who

Jack Lemmon19:01

He produced and wrote and directed it.

Jack Lemmon19:03

I had met Billy, had always wanted to work with him uh up to that point.

Jack Lemmon19:07

I'd always wanted to work with him either in a comedy or a drama.

Jack Lemmon19:11

And Felicia and I this was prior to our being married, but we were going together and and we were eating at a favorite little restaurant of ours called Dominick's, which Billy also frequented.

Jack Lemmon19:20

And uh he came over to a table one night,

Jack Lemmon19:23

And I my accent of Billy's is almost as bad as his accent. I can't imitate him. But anyway, he came over and more or less he said he says, Excuse me, he says, Jack.

Jack Lemmon19:32

Felicia, forgive me, he says, uh on the way out, would you just stop by the table for a second? So we said, sure. We sat down and he said, Look, I've got this thing here, a crazy film, and he says, uh it's about a couple of musicians back there in the bootleg Capone era there in the twenties and they witnessed the Saint Valentine's Day massacre.

Jack Lemmon19:54

And uh because they're seen by the by the the guys that did the massacre, they've got to hide out, so they join an all-girl orchestra and you'll be in drag for about ninety percent of the film. Do you want to do it?

Jack Lemmon20:06

And without even thinking, I said yes.

Jack Lemmon20:09

Right away. Anything he had said I would have said yes. In the car later I said, What the hell plot did he just tell me? What am I getting into here?

Speaker 420:16

Yeah.

Jack Lemmon20:17

Well, anyway, time went by, I didn't hear a word.

Jack Lemmon20:20

Maybe two months later, three months later, I get a call from Billy at home and and uh he said, I'm sending up sixty pages. I said, Oh, terrific.

Jack Lemmon20:29

Up came sixty pages, and I read it, and I fell off the couch. I was lying back.

Jack Lemmon20:35

It was the funniest sixty pages I had ever read, and it still is.

Presenter20:39

It has to be said that you and uh Tony Curtis brought a certain something to that script anyway. The the image of you two staggering around in those high heels.

Jack Lemmon20:45

It was great fun.

Presenter20:46

Did you ever try it out on anybody for real?

Jack Lemmon20:48

Yes. Now what we did the make up. We worked for five days, four and five hours a day, on the make up, changing, and then Billy would take a look at it, and he'd make a test on camera sometimes and so forth. And we'd make some minor adjustments. And then after about towards the end of the week, about the fifth day,

Jack Lemmon21:06

We were side by side in the mirrors. We got through and looked at each other, and I've really forgotten whether it was my ideas or Tony's, but anyway, we were on the Goldwyn lot, where other films were being shot.

Jack Lemmon21:17

And one of us said to the other, Wait a minute.

Jack Lemmon21:21

We both think it's right now. Let's test it out. Let's go to the ladies' room and see what happens. So we had on our we put on the old the dresses, the flapper outfits, and the full regalia and everything, and of course in the full make up. And in we waltzed. I want to tell you it was not easy. Just barged right into the door finally.

Jack Lemmon21:40

And there must have been fifteen or twenty ladies that walked in and out, and we just of course stayed out in the outer part, the powder room part, or wherever, where you adjust your make up and look in the mirrors and chit chat and all of that.

Jack Lemmon21:51

Not one of them batted an eyeball. They just thought that we were two ladies do in a in a period piece, shooting some film, you see.

Jack Lemmon22:00

We then went back to Billy and said told him what we had done and he said, I'm not even going to test it, leave it. That was it. And that's how we arrived at the final makeup.

Presenter22:08

Should we have some more music?

Jack Lemmon22:10

Yeah, Archer Rubenstein was a friend of Felicia and one of the most charming men I have ever known. So in picking something classical and and with the piano, I would I would think of him immediately.

Presenter23:23

Artur Rubinstein playing part of Rachmaninoff's concerto number two in C minor with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra conducted by Fritz Reiner.

Presenter23:32

Tell me about life in Hollywood, Jack. You were saying that Walter Mathow is a great friend. Juli Andrews and Blake Edwards, I think.

Jack Lemmon23:38

Oh yes, and yeah.

Presenter23:39

But are you in a kind of glamorous, glitzy set, or are you?

Jack Lemmon23:43

No. It really doesn't exist.

Presenter23:43

Yeah.

Jack Lemmon23:46

It did to an extent.

Jack Lemmon23:48

But really quite a surprisingly long time ago. I think it it sort of became much less uh of the high life and night life, etc. With the slow demise of of the studio system itself, I mean big premieres and all of this and that are really quite rare now. And Felicia and I once or twice a year might go to some big do. Usually they're a pain in the neck. And we'll go, for instance, if it's in honor of a friend. Like Greg Peck was honored at the AFI this year. I wouldn't have missed it for all the tea in China because we adore the Pecks and they're they're close pals.

Presenter24:21

And how important is family life to you?

Jack Lemmon24:24

My children, my family and the future for them, all those other things that any sane person would be concerned about are the most important things in my life.

Presenter24:34

Record number six?

Jack Lemmon24:36

Yes. Oh, boy. Uh the Benny Goodman sextette. Oh, Lordy. I that that's the epitome of good, beautiful, clean, pure jazz to me. A combination really of swing and jazz at that period in my life, back in the, well, let's say thirties, forties, fifties and up into the sixties really. And I picked the world is waiting for the sunrise, not only for the Benny Goodman sextette, but because of Mel Powell playing the piano. And Mel is a friend of mine.

Jack Lemmon25:04

And at one point was heading the music school or the entire school of the California Institute of the Arts where my son Chris went and got a degree in music and did all of the things that I should have done with music'cause he really knows what he's doing when he plays and he's a good composer too. But Mel I always admired when I was very young'cause he was one of the better, the really the better jazz musicians. And I love this recording.

Speaker 425:36

Yeah.

Speaker 426:12

Hmm.

Presenter26:13

The World Is Waiting for the Sunrise. The Benny Goodman Sextet with Mel Powell on the piano. We've talked, Jack, about your earlier films, but of course in later years you've made films with a with a definite political message like the China syndrome for example. That was ten years ago and that was about a nuclear accident which in fact actually happened in real life shortly after

Jack Lemmon26:29

In fact.

Jack Lemmon26:30

It did, yeah. It was about a month to six weeks or so.

Jack Lemmon26:34

I guess no, three, four weeks, I think, after the film opened.

Jack Lemmon26:38

Everything that was in the film happened.

Presenter26:39

At three mile line

Jack Lemmon26:40

At that at three mile island, yeah, in the accident. And it was really rude.

Jack Lemmon26:45

That was weird. Jane, Yfonda and Michael Douglas and I.

Jack Lemmon26:50

really went into hiding, so to speak, when that happened, because there was an avalanche of reporters and newspaper people.

Jack Lemmon26:58

in general and cameras and everything else uh g coming into the houses, hiding in the bushes, anything to get to us, to get a quote, because uh the picture opened and it created a it was like a bomb going off. It was a huge hit.

Jack Lemmon27:13

And an important film, thank God. But if if it wasn't lauded

Jack Lemmon27:18

as it mostly was, it was severely criticized by people saying, How dare you do a thing like this to this great industry and you're putting a panic into the American people of things that could never happen and blah, blah, blah. So it would seem that anything that we said

Jack Lemmon27:33

would be self-serving.

Jack Lemmon27:35

So we just didn't say anything.

Presenter27:37

Hmm.

Jack Lemmon27:37

Whatsoever, you know.

Presenter27:38

But do you believe in that? Do you believe that actors should use their their popularity to put across a political message?

Jack Lemmon27:44

I think it's up to the individual and how strongly he feels, and if he really does feel that he knows enough about what he is talking about to influence somebody else. That's the key thing to me. For instance, missing was straight political because we were criticizing previous government actions by our State Department, and I think quite correctly so.

Presenter28:03

This was foreign policy in Chile.

Jack Lemmon28:05

It is foreign policy in Chile and the whole idea of our maintaining a State Department policy over the years that we never had anything to do.

Presenter28:06

Yeah.

Jack Lemmon28:13

with the overthrow of Allendi and everything. We had everything to do with it. We caused it. Just about caused it. Supported it. Had military advisers and millions of dollars in support.

Presenter28:24

But that was a film missing which didn't make you too popular with the government, wasn't it?

Jack Lemmon28:28

Oh, diggy, the government hated it because it was true.

Presenter28:29

But I hated it.

Presenter28:30

Didn't Reagan actually hijack the film?

Jack Lemmon28:32

He hijacked it, yeah. We were in Washington for the opening, and he took the print to run at Camp David on the night that the press was supposed to see it to review it. They all sat there, and there was no film. But I must say this for him. He and Nancy then invited Felicia and I to the White House, and we spent about three delightful hours with them and did not discuss the film. And I really take my hat off to him for that, because I've always been a staunch Democrat. He knew that. And they could not have been nicer. And the only thing that we did is at one point, Felicia, suddenly out of nowhere, and I almost spilled my cup of tea, said, by the way, have you, knowing full well that the night before they had run it, have you seen Missing and so forth? And Ronnie was sitting beside me and he went whoaf like that. And he had a glass of wine, I think. And that went, that spilled.

Speaker 429:24

Maybe

Jack Lemmon29:24

And he laughed, and Nancy smiled and said yes. And Felicia said, What did you think? But we knew.

Jack Lemmon29:33

I could have killed her. Anyhow, Nancy said, Well

Jack Lemmon29:36

We do wish it had a happier ending. And then we all laughed. And that was the end of that. Obviously I would not pursue it.

Presenter29:42

Hmm. Yeah.

Jack Lemmon29:43

But

Jack Lemmon29:44

Echo.

Presenter29:45

Right. A bit of um barch, I think.

Jack Lemmon29:48

Yes, uh yeah. I felt the reason that I wanted either Mozart and or Bach is because I think that Mozart and Bach probably had overall the most influence.

Jack Lemmon29:59

on our music, period, of any two people that ever lived.

Jack Lemmon30:03

Without a question.

Presenter30:04

And we're going to have the double violin concerto back in the middle.

Jack Lemmon30:06

And and uh Itzak and Isaac Stern b again, um I know both of them and uh and treasure the fact that I do know them and have such immense respect for their their talents are incredible.

Speaker 430:17

Yeah.

Presenter31:17

Itzak Perlman and Isaac Stern playing part of Bach's double violin concerto in D minor with the New York Philharmonic, conducted by Zubin Mehta.

Presenter31:27

You're obviously, Jack, a a man who who goes on worrying about his work, wanting to get it right, despite the fact that you've achieved so much. Do you

Jack Lemmon31:34

Oh sure.

Presenter31:35

Do you still fear failure?

Jack Lemmon31:38

No, I don't fear failure.

Jack Lemmon31:40

What I learned, and very, very fortunately a long time ago,

Jack Lemmon31:46

was that failure doesn't do you one bit of harm. Almost always. It doesn't hurt you a bit. The fear of failure is a killer, because it will keep you from trying and you will never know. You will not develop. It's sort of like going into a strange city and going down Main Street, you know, the one big main thoroughfare, and you feel kind of secure. And you keep looking down the side streets, the little mews and the alleys and so forth, and saying, Oh, I better not go down there, I don't know what it's like.

Jack Lemmon32:14

And if you went down, you might discover something glorious, you know.

Presenter32:17

But let me ask you what what what it's a classic question, but I think desperately premature, but let me ask it nevertheless, how would you best like to be remembered?

Jack Lemmon32:26

For the body of work.

Jack Lemmon32:28

Not for a single performance. That that is why I was thrilled by the American Film Institute Award for a body of work. That's what I want to be remembered by.

Jack Lemmon32:36

uh uh most of all. It's wonderful for actors to get good public acceptance and we all hope for good reviews because that determines really uh most of the time the success or failure of a play or a film.

Jack Lemmon32:50

But the thing that still pleases me most

Jack Lemmon32:53

Is someone coming up and not necessarily saying, Can I have your autograph? But someone saying, Excuse me, I don't want to bother you, I just wanted to thank you.

Jack Lemmon33:02

For all the enjoyment that you have brought to me and my family. Well, I tell you, that knocks me out, and I am I'm really serious about it. I cannot imagine anything nicer.

Jack Lemmon33:12

Because that's what it's all about. We are not up on the stage for ourselves.

Jack Lemmon33:16

And whatever acting is, it involves an audience, and the whole reason for your being there is to move that audience one way or the other, to make them think, to make them laugh, whatever it may be.

Jack Lemmon33:27

But when someone says, I appreciate what you have done in general.

Jack Lemmon33:33

Then that's it. To me that's the whole reason that I've been doing it for my whole life, you know.

Presenter33:39

Shall we have your last piece of music?

Jack Lemmon33:41

Mm-hmm.

Jack Lemmon33:42

Then and that's ah, back to my God there, George Gershwin, and the Rhapsody in Blue, which had such an effect. I used to keep, as I said earlier, I think that uh away at school, uh when I was about thirteen or fourteen, when I'd I'd hear it being played now and then through the wall

Speaker 433:58

Woo!

Jack Lemmon33:59

It really got me going. It really got me going. And uh

Jack Lemmon34:04

Uh if the reason I picked uh Hezu Maria Sanroma, there are so many, many recordings and many of them uh possibly superior to this, but that was the one that I was listening to.

Jack Lemmon34:14

Way, way back then, and that's why I picked it.

Presenter35:17

George Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue with Jesu Maria San Roma playing the piano solo.

Presenter35:23

Which is your favorite of all those, Jack? You have to choose one of the eight that matters more than the others.

Jack Lemmon35:29

Yes. God, that's like apples and oranges, isn't it?

Jack Lemmon35:32

I don't I guess Rhapsody and Blue for what it did.

Presenter35:34

Two.

Jack Lemmon35:35

To me. That had as much influence as s any single piece of music.

Jack Lemmon35:40

On my becoming absorbed with music, and this has been for me.

Jack Lemmon35:46

Sheer unadulterated joy of appreciating music and uh being driven to learn how to play by ear and being able to sit down.

Jack Lemmon35:55

Just by myself. I don't enjoy playing in front of people at all. I love to play alone and I think five minutes has gone by and Felicia will come in and say, Is an hour and a half enough? We're late for dinner, you know?

Presenter36:05

So I presume your luxury for the island has to be a piano, is it?

Jack Lemmon36:09

Oh, yes.

Presenter36:10

And and you're resourceful, I know, because you're a fisherman, so I don't think you're going to starve on our desert island. But um what would you like to read? We give you, you see, the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare.

Jack Lemmon36:20

I would pick a novel.

Jack Lemmon36:22

and uh I would pick it play in the fields of our Lord.

Jack Lemmon36:27

By Peter Matheson.

Jack Lemmon36:28

I think it's affected me as much as any piece of fiction I ever read. It gets closer to the heart of man.

Jack Lemmon36:34

to the real

Jack Lemmon36:36

pulse the soul of human beings as anything I've read.

Presenter36:40

Jacqueline, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island dissipated.

Jack Lemmon36:45

Oh

Jack Lemmon36:47

I really, I'm not kidding. I thought we were about halfway there. And I've really enjoyed it, Sue. I really have. Thank you, love.

Presenter36:53

Thank you.

Speaker 237:10

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.