Sir Thomas Armstrong

Speaker 30:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 30:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen eighty nine.

Speaker 30:11

And the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:30

My castaway this week is a teacher and a musician. He has dedicated his life to developing the abilities of others, first as organist at Christ Church College, Oxford, and then as Principal of the Royal Academy of Music. The immature talents of many destined to become famous Prime Ministers, Generals, Nobel laureates came under his tender care, and his knowledge and experience called him as a judge to festivals all over the world. Today, at the age of ninety one, he still judges at the National Eistedford in Wales. He also maintains his reputation as a regular letter writer to the Times, informing his fellow readers on matters as diverse as vintage English bicycles and steel nibs for fountain pens. He is Sir Thomas Armstrong.

Presenter1:18

Sir Thomas, letter writing and the means of doing it are obviously matters very close to your heart.

Sir Thomas Armstrong1:24

Well, it was just to

Sir Thomas Armstrong1:26

A way of amusing myself sometimes and sometimes amusing other people.

Presenter1:31

Do you still manage to find steel nibs for your fountain pen?

Sir Thomas Armstrong1:34

Well, when I wrote about that matter

Sir Thomas Armstrong1:37

People were kind enough to send me pen nibs from all over the world, and so I think I've got enough to last me out. I still use them, and I still use the ordinary.

Sir Thomas Armstrong1:48

steel nib and ordinary ink.

Presenter1:51

Do you think that the modern generation doesn't pay enough attention to its handwriting?

Sir Thomas Armstrong1:55

I'm quite sure of that.

Sir Thomas Armstrong1:57

I very seldom see good handwriting, and even in more infrequently do I see beautiful handwriting, which gives great pleasure.

Sir Thomas Armstrong2:07

And I still try to write legibly myself.

Presenter2:11

Well, your greatest problem, I think, at the moment is that you have this lifetime of music behind you, and we are requiring that you choose just eight pieces from it. How have you managed to do it?

Sir Thomas Armstrong2:24

Well, I confess I found it very hard.

Sir Thomas Armstrong2:27

I found it easier to get down to twelve, difficult to get down to eight.

Sir Thomas Armstrong2:31

But I have a good reason for all the choices I have made.

Sir Thomas Armstrong2:35

What's the first one?

Sir Thomas Armstrong2:37

Well, I think the first

Sir Thomas Armstrong2:39

Record would be Comfort You Out of the Messiah.

Sir Thomas Armstrong2:44

I would like it because

Sir Thomas Armstrong2:46

It's associated with my childhood.

Sir Thomas Armstrong2:49

My father was a professional musician, and I was brought up

Sir Thomas Armstrong2:53

in a hard-working

Sir Thomas Armstrong2:55

Rather

Sir Thomas Armstrong2:56

Austere home

Sir Thomas Armstrong2:58

And my father was a wonderful man, a fine musician.

Sir Thomas Armstrong3:02

And I have the greatest respect for all that he did.

Sir Thomas Armstrong3:08

and I never ceased to wonder that with his meagre earnings he was able to send all his children to the university or to college.

Sir Thomas Armstrong3:19

and I remember him not only with love, but also with intense gratitude.

Sir Thomas Armstrong3:24

And one of my great regrets is that I feel I was never able to express adequately to him.

Sir Thomas Armstrong3:31

My

Sir Thomas Armstrong3:32

admiration for him while he was still alive.

Sir Thomas Armstrong3:36

Also, that great work of handles, although it only represents a very

Sir Thomas Armstrong3:42

Small part of his enormous output.

Sir Thomas Armstrong3:45

really would give you everything that you need on the desert island. It would give you consolation if you needed it, hope.

Sir Thomas Armstrong3:55

and strength

Sir Thomas Armstrong3:57

and it would offer you something for every kind of occasion.

Sir Thomas Armstrong4:00

And my early years were full of the sounds of this work being rehearsed.

Speaker 44:32

Five people.

Speaker 44:41

For me

Presenter5:05

The recitative Comfort ye my people from Handel's Messiah, sung by Richard Lewis with the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Sir Malcolm Sargent.

Presenter5:15

Malcolm Sargent was, in fact, one of your closest friends, wasn't he, Sir Thomas?

Sir Thomas Armstrong5:19

Yes, he was a very dear friend from childhood.

Sir Thomas Armstrong5:23

He was born, you know, in Stemford, and my father conducted the Stemford Orchestra.

Sir Thomas Armstrong5:29

And I used constantly to be there, and Malcolm was constantly in our home and, in fact, the first occasion on which he ever conducted

Sir Thomas Armstrong5:39

was an occasion when my father couldn't get to Stamford for the orchestral rehearsal.

Sir Thomas Armstrong5:44

And Malcolm was asked to take the baton, and did so with great success, and everybody said from that moment, Well, that boy's got it.

Sir Thomas Armstrong5:53

And that's how it proved to be.

Presenter5:55

How old was he then?

Sir Thomas Armstrong5:56

He must have been about twelve or fourteen.

Presenter6:00

You were saying that your your father was a professional musician. What did he do apart from running the local orchestra?

Sir Thomas Armstrong6:06

Well, he taught. He was organist of a church with a fine choir for more than fifty years.

Sir Thomas Armstrong6:12

He conducted the local orchestra, the local choral society.

Sir Thomas Armstrong6:17

and the local operatic society, he gave wonderful performances of The Dream of Garantius with Jervis Elwes.

Sir Thomas Armstrong6:24

And those were great experiences for everybody that took part in them.

Presenter6:28

But w was musicianship something that he had inherited from his father before him? Has it been in your family for generations?

Sir Thomas Armstrong6:36

I don't know about that. There had been music in the family, but my father, I think, got his his great love of it from being a choir boy in a

Sir Thomas Armstrong6:46

in a Leicester church.

Sir Thomas Armstrong6:49

Yeah.

Presenter6:49

And indeed you were to become a chorister, which we shall hear about in a moment. But first of all, let's have your next record.

Presenter6:56

Uh

Sir Thomas Armstrong6:57

Well now.

Sir Thomas Armstrong6:58

I have chosen Debuss's Lille Joyeuse, played by Martino Turimo, who is a dear friend and was a student at the Royal Academy.

Sir Thomas Armstrong7:08

And I have chosen that because

Sir Thomas Armstrong7:10

Looking back over my life,

Sir Thomas Armstrong7:13

I think of many moments of great joy.

Sir Thomas Armstrong7:17

The poets have written about it, surprised by joy, and

Sir Thomas Armstrong7:22

When this great piece of Dubus's unrolls itself, one has the feeling of joy and vitality, and I feel again the excitement

Sir Thomas Armstrong7:34

that I used to feel when I was trying to learn and play this piece.

Sir Thomas Armstrong7:38

It's beautifully played on this record.

Sir Thomas Armstrong7:41

And it's a wonderful

Sir Thomas Armstrong7:43

Enhancement of Life.

Presenter8:44

Debussy's Lille Greyeurs played by Martino Tirimo.

Presenter8:48

Now you, Sir Thomas, as as a young boy of nine or ten, found yourself singing in front of Her Majesty Queen Alexandra, didn't you? How did that come about?

Sir Thomas Armstrong8:57

Well, when I was about nine and a half, I went to be a Chapel Royal Colister.

Sir Thomas Armstrong9:03

At St. James's Palace

Sir Thomas Armstrong9:06

and we had many royal occasions.

Sir Thomas Armstrong9:08

and many great musical occasions it was a hard life.

Sir Thomas Armstrong9:12

because on some Sunday mornings we had three services, one at Buckingham Palace, one at Marlborough House for Queen Alexandra, and one at the Chapel Royal Saint James's, and there were many rehearsals and many great musical occasions like the coronation of nineteen hundred and eleven.

Sir Thomas Armstrong9:32

And after the king died,

Sir Thomas Armstrong9:36

The boys sang in the throne room of Buckingham Palace.

Sir Thomas Armstrong9:41

where the king's body was lying in state.

Sir Thomas Armstrong9:44

And it was after that

Sir Thomas Armstrong9:46

that I was given a watch.

Sir Thomas Armstrong9:48

by Queen Alexandra, which my son Robert now has.

Sir Thomas Armstrong9:52

What she gave each of the

Presenter9:53

Uh

Sir Thomas Armstrong9:53

Forresters are a little bit more.

Presenter9:56

Were you playing the organ, actually, at this stage in your life? Or were you playing any instrument at all?

Sir Thomas Armstrong10:01

Yes, I was at that time.

Sir Thomas Armstrong10:03

Well, I had cons considerable ambitions as a pianist. I had been learning for some years by that time, and while I was a chapel roll boy I became a pupil of Ernest Reed's at the Mattei School.

Sir Thomas Armstrong10:17

And I worked very hard at the piano, and m before the war became quite a reasonable pianist.

Presenter10:24

But were you doing any academic work as a young boy, or was it all music and singing?

Sir Thomas Armstrong10:28

One had a lot of lessons, you know, and we had to take matriculation and all that.

Sir Thomas Armstrong10:33

But there was a lot of music study as well.

Presenter10:36

Of course, when your voice broke you could no longer be a chorister, and you were sent home to Peterborough, weren't you?

Sir Thomas Armstrong10:40

Yes, and then I had a couple of years at the King's School, and I was articled to Hayden Keaton, who was the organist of Peterborough Cathedral.

Sir Thomas Armstrong10:49

Because you were formerly bound to a master who took the responsibility of

Sir Thomas Armstrong10:53

giving you a musical training and launching you in the profession

Sir Thomas Armstrong10:58

It's a very ancient system in music and the other arts.

Sir Thomas Armstrong11:03

I was article to Hayden Keaton.

Sir Thomas Armstrong11:06

Hayden Keaton was articled to Sir George Elvir.

Sir Thomas Armstrong11:10

At Windsor?

Sir Thomas Armstrong11:12

Elvy had been articled to Atchwood at St. Paul's, and Atchwood had been articled to Mozart.

Sir Thomas Armstrong11:20

So in four generations

Sir Thomas Armstrong11:23

I go back to Mozart himself.

Sir Thomas Armstrong11:25

Shall we have your third record there?

Sir Thomas Armstrong11:28

Well, Schubert's song Ganymede.

Sir Thomas Armstrong11:32

I chose this because it stands for all the finest aspirations that any young artist

Sir Thomas Armstrong11:42

Can have

Sir Thomas Armstrong11:43

Ganymede, you know, is the cupbearer to Zeus.

Sir Thomas Armstrong11:48

And he was taken up to heaven to be made an immortal.

Sir Thomas Armstrong11:53

And in this song Goethe describes

Sir Thomas Armstrong11:57

The young Ganymede.

Sir Thomas Armstrong11:59

longing to be taken up into the arms of the all loving Father, and it seems to summon up all the aspirations of an idealistic young musician or artist.

Speaker 412:16

Ahi da alibendah.

Speaker 412:30

Come, it's come away of the body.

Speaker 412:53

You see another

Speaker 412:59

Adams.

Presenter13:14

Dietrich Fischer Dieskar singing Schubert's Ganymede accompanied by Gerald Moore.

Presenter13:20

After being articled at Peterborough Cathedral, Sir Thomas, you won an organ scholarship to Keeble College, Oxford, but it was wartime, and and you were called up. Life changed very dramatically then for you, didn't it?

Sir Thomas Armstrong13:31

I was in the OTC for those few months at Oxford, which was memorable for me because we paraded each morning outside Keble College, and as my name was A, I stood next to B, who was Maurice Barra, and near to him stood D, who was Lord Denning. We still remember those parades.

Sir Thomas Armstrong13:53

And then of course I went.

Sir Thomas Armstrong13:55

off to the two years of war.

Sir Thomas Armstrong13:58

and music was put aside.

Presenter14:01

Uh

Sir Thomas Armstrong14:01

Yeah.

Presenter14:01

Were you in the train?

Sir Thomas Armstrong14:01

Inches.

Sir Thomas Armstrong14:02

I wasn't in the trenches, I was an artillery officer.

Sir Thomas Armstrong14:06

and I was attached for some time to the eighth squadron of the Royal Air Force.

Sir Thomas Armstrong14:12

and I knew many of those brave and gallant young men.

Sir Thomas Armstrong14:15

and I think of them very often still.

Presenter14:18

Uh

Sir Thomas Armstrong14:18

Were you wounded yourself? I wasn't wounded, but I was guessed.

Sir Thomas Armstrong14:22

But I got better.

Presenter14:24

But you must have seen some pretty terrible sights during that.

Sir Thomas Armstrong14:27

Well, there were terrible, terrible moments.

Sir Thomas Armstrong14:29

Terrible are moments which are unforgettable, but all the same also unforgettable are the good moments that there were.

Sir Thomas Armstrong14:38

Moments of vision which you had

Sir Thomas Armstrong14:41

on a beautiful morning or when

Sir Thomas Armstrong14:45

The war seemed for a moment to be far away, and the comradeship, so that it's not wholly.

Sir Thomas Armstrong14:53

sad, and of course one was taken up completely with the burning desire to be a good soldier.

Sir Thomas Armstrong15:01

to do one's work as a junior officer as well as possible.

Presenter15:04

But you have

Sir Thomas Armstrong15:04

Uh

Presenter15:04

Had no music.

Sir Thomas Armstrong15:06

Whatsoever to comfort you? Only the Gramophone record is used to play in the mess.

Sir Thomas Armstrong15:11

There were one or two records of Chrysler playing the violin, but many or more frequently one heard if you were the only girl in the world.

Presenter15:20

And you wouldn't wish to take that to your desert island?

Sir Thomas Armstrong15:23

Well, I thought about it. Did you? But uh you know, ha one has to make decisions and I had to leave that one out.

Presenter15:31

Right. Which is the next one you put in, then?

Sir Thomas Armstrong15:34

Well, brig fare.

Sir Thomas Armstrong15:36

Just before I went into the army, in those months at Oxford, I made the acquaintance of Sir Hugh Allen, who was the pr who became the Professor of Music at Oxford in nineteen eighteen.

Sir Thomas Armstrong15:49

And he had just discovered Delius, and he used to ask me round to his house in the evenings, and we played the music of Delius from scores.

Sir Thomas Armstrong16:01

We didn't have records in those days.

Sir Thomas Armstrong16:05

But we did study brig fare.

Sir Thomas Armstrong16:07

Very thoroughly, and it has always been a piece of music that meant a great deal to me.

Presenter17:11

Delius's Brig Fair, played by the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Sir Thomas Beecham. You knew Beecham very well, didn't you?

Sir Thomas Armstrong17:19

Yes, I did.

Sir Thomas Armstrong17:21

I had a great deal to do with him.

Sir Thomas Armstrong17:23

He was a bad ewe.

Sir Thomas Armstrong17:25

Can't forget if you ever knew him at all. One didn't always agree with him and

Sir Thomas Armstrong17:31

He was a very

Sir Thomas Armstrong17:32

Copley's character.

Sir Thomas Armstrong17:34

But he had

Sir Thomas Armstrong17:36

A powerful charm.

Sir Thomas Armstrong17:38

And if he asked you to do something for him

Sir Thomas Armstrong17:41

You would do it.

Sir Thomas Armstrong17:43

You'd go through fire and water to do it.

Sir Thomas Armstrong17:46

And he stands out as one of the great musicians I've known.

Presenter17:49

What did you intend at that time in your life, Sir Thomas, in the nineteen twenties? How did you intend to make your living? Times weren't easy, were they?

Sir Thomas Armstrong17:59

Well, I had various thoughts.

Sir Thomas Armstrong18:02

Sometimes I thought I would like to be

Sir Thomas Armstrong18:04

A conductor?

Sir Thomas Armstrong18:07

But I came to the conclusion that I hadn't got the qualities that are required for that career.

Sir Thomas Armstrong18:13

And I did find that I was able to speak and to teach.

Sir Thomas Armstrong18:18

and to conduct choral works.

Sir Thomas Armstrong18:21

And to help students, and I had many wonderful students and young colleagues.

Sir Thomas Armstrong18:28

My work just developed in that way.

Sir Thomas Armstrong18:32

I think there are few careers which are

Sir Thomas Armstrong18:35

Directed entirely by the person concerned.

Sir Thomas Armstrong18:39

Other fixes take a hand.

Sir Thomas Armstrong18:42

And I think my career developed by itself in a way.

Sir Thomas Armstrong18:46

I never expected to become principal of the Royal Academy of Music.

Sir Thomas Armstrong18:51

But it happened, and it was a wonderful part of my life.

Presenter18:54

Shall we have your fifth record?

Sir Thomas Armstrong18:57

Well, I've asked you to include a part of Vaughan Williams's

Sir Thomas Armstrong19:02

Talus Fantasia.

Sir Thomas Armstrong19:05

When I came back from the war

Sir Thomas Armstrong19:07

I went for a short time to Manchester.

Sir Thomas Armstrong19:10

And then I went to the college.

Sir Thomas Armstrong19:12

and I was fortunate enough to become a pupil of Raithaund Williams, and he had the greatest influence of anybody upon my life.

Sir Thomas Armstrong19:20

He was a truly great man.

Sir Thomas Armstrong19:23

And to work with him was a magnificent opportunity.

Sir Thomas Armstrong19:28

He once said if you write a little bit of music to the best of your ability on every day of your life, you will write one good piece before you die.

Sir Thomas Armstrong19:38

I haven't been able to live up to that, I'm afraid.

Sir Thomas Armstrong19:41

But I hope I've written one possible piece.

Presenter20:46

Vaughan Williams' Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Talis, played by the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Andre Previn.

Presenter20:53

Would you say Vaughan Williams, Sir Thomas, had the greatest influence on your professional life?

Sir Thomas Armstrong20:59

Hugh Allen and Vaughan Williamson, the two of them did, I think.

Presenter21:03

You were also taught music by Holst, though, were you not?

Sir Thomas Armstrong21:05

I was also taught by Holst, but only when VW was away.

Presenter21:10

You of course were an influence in your turn on on many young musicians in the making. I said at the beginning that you taught future Prime Ministers. I think um I think we know that Edward Heath started the organ under you, didn't he?

Sir Thomas Armstrong21:24

Well, I wouldn't say that I taught Edward Heath the organ, but I did have a good deal to do with him when he was an undergraduate.

Sir Thomas Armstrong21:31

And of course in the Bach choir which I conducted we had all sorts of

Sir Thomas Armstrong21:37

Young men and women who were destined to be Prime Ministers, Archbishops.

Sir Thomas Armstrong21:43

Judges

Sir Thomas Armstrong21:45

barristers, novelists, poets, professors, everything you could think of.

Presenter21:50

Now this was all while you were organised at Christ Church, Oxford, where you stayed for twenty one years.

Sir Thomas Armstrong21:52

Christ

Sir Thomas Armstrong21:55

Yeah.

Presenter21:56

They were very happy years, no doubt.

Sir Thomas Armstrong21:58

Yes, I was also the director of the Balliol concerts and played a great many accompaniments and took a great deal of part in chamber music there. It's all a wonderful memory.

Presenter22:10

Shall we have your next piece of music?

Sir Thomas Armstrong22:13

But it's the Rio Grande.

Sir Thomas Armstrong22:15

I chose this because

Sir Thomas Armstrong22:17

My friendship with Constant Lambert when he was a young man at the Royal College was a very

Sir Thomas Armstrong22:24

great part of my life at that time.

Sir Thomas Armstrong22:27

Those who remember Constant as a young man will remember that there was that he was the most wonderful companion, a marvellous musician,

Sir Thomas Armstrong22:35

And a gay

Sir Thomas Armstrong22:37

enchanting

Sir Thomas Armstrong22:39

companion whose conversation was like a display of fireworks.

Sir Thomas Armstrong22:45

I was associated with him a good deal because Vaughan Williams used to use us for trying out his new works and playing them on the piano.

Sir Thomas Armstrong22:55

And uh all those who knew Lambert in those days will remember his was the most brilliant and wonderful creature.

Sir Thomas Armstrong23:04

and then I saw him again at the end of his life, when I prepared a choir for Sommer's last will and testament, which he conducted.

Sir Thomas Armstrong23:13

He was then not well.

Sir Thomas Armstrong23:16

And I remember his conversation so a kind of frenzied gaiety.

Sir Thomas Armstrong23:22

And

Sir Thomas Armstrong23:24

I thought of the words of the

Sir Thomas Armstrong23:26

Music that he had composed for Thomas Nash's poem

Sir Thomas Armstrong23:31

Written in the time of the pestilence.

Sir Thomas Armstrong23:34

I remembered the words, Come, come, the bells do cry I am sick, I am sick, I must die Lord, have mercy on us

Sir Thomas Armstrong23:43

and I thought of his setting these words, and I had the awful feeling of a man really destroying himself.

Sir Thomas Armstrong23:51

Taking no care.

Sir Thomas Armstrong23:54

making himself ill with overwork and

Sir Thomas Armstrong23:58

Warrior.

Sir Thomas Armstrong23:59

It's a memory I can't obliterate.

Sir Thomas Armstrong24:02

He was a real romantic, and this is why I've chosen the end of Rio Grande.

Sir Thomas Armstrong24:07

It's a real moment of romantic vision.

Presenter25:11

The Rio Grande, composed and conducted by Constant Lambert with the St. Michael Singers and the Halle Orchestra.

Presenter25:18

You were knighted in nineteen fifty seven, I think, weren't you? Just after you'd become Principal of the Royal Academy of Music, and a leading figure by then in the world of music. Did you enjoy that job, or did it remove you from the music making that you love?

Sir Thomas Armstrong25:36

I enjoyed it enormously.

Sir Thomas Armstrong25:38

Because I got involved in the careers of young musicians of great talent, and I got interested in the Royal Opera House, where I was a director for ten years.

Sir Thomas Armstrong25:50

and went all over the world doing various things like taking part in the

Sir Thomas Armstrong25:57

as a judge in the Tchaikovsky competition when John Ogden was one of the winners.

Presenter26:02

Was there much argument on that occasion in nineteen sixty three when John Ogden won the con he won it along with uh Vladimir Ashkenazi, of course, didn't he?

Sir Thomas Armstrong26:10

Yes, the prize had to be divided.

Sir Thomas Armstrong26:13

I don't think I want to go into all the

Sir Thomas Armstrong26:16

By ways of that, as you know.

Sir Thomas Armstrong26:20

In these international competitions all sorts of funny things go on.

Sir Thomas Armstrong26:24

But I do remember coming back to London on the aeroplane with John Ogden.

Sir Thomas Armstrong26:30

And when we got to Heathrow there was no deputation to meet him, no press.

Sir Thomas Armstrong26:38

Nothing from the B B C, and I was disgusted by that, because when it had been won on the previous occasion by Van Clyburn, they gave him a ticker tape

Sir Thomas Armstrong26:50

Reception in New York, and I just thought London had fallen down rather on that.

Presenter26:55

Why did you think that was so? Did we simply not recognize what we can do?

Sir Thomas Armstrong26:58

I don't I think it wasn't that just people didn't notice.

Sir Thomas Armstrong27:02

that this Englishman had done what nobody had expected an Englishman at that time to do.

Sir Thomas Armstrong27:09

Your next piece of music, please.

Sir Thomas Armstrong27:11

Well, the wilderness

Sir Thomas Armstrong27:14

I chose it because

Sir Thomas Armstrong27:16

It speaks of the

Sir Thomas Armstrong27:17

Desert rejoicing and being glad

Sir Thomas Armstrong27:21

And about the faithful going to Zion with everlasting joy upon their heads, and as you know.

Sir Thomas Armstrong27:29

It's the feeling of joy which has dominated my outlook when I was doing these records with you, and I want that joy to be in the island itself.

Speaker 427:44

And for soul eternal place shall be glad for

Speaker 427:56

Shall be glad for them.

Speaker 428:03

To the dullest of shall rejoice and the gloss of glory with promise that my soul and every place shall be clothed.

Speaker 428:25

Shall we glide with you?

Speaker 428:32

There's a loud shout, rejoice, rejoice, and your soul.

Presenter28:41

SS Wesley's The Wilderness, sung by the choir of St. John's College, Cambridge, directed by George Guest. Sir Thomas, you talk with huge fondness about the great musicians you have known. I wonder, is that because you're naturally a generous person, or is there too something very special about music and musicians that somehow binds them together in friendship?

Sir Thomas Armstrong29:06

I have been fortunate enough to

Sir Thomas Armstrong29:09

meet a great many musicians and I think perhaps I am one who likes to find out all that is best in people.

Presenter29:20

You once wrote, and I I think it was to the Times uh that music was necessary for a good life it was a basic necessity. What did you mean by that?

Sir Thomas Armstrong29:30

I still stand by that. I thi I think it is.

Sir Thomas Armstrong29:34

Music gives you the most marvellous experiences. The poets have been quite unanimous about it.

Sir Thomas Armstrong29:40

I mean, you have Addison speaking about music as the greatest good that mortals know.

Sir Thomas Armstrong29:48

And all of heaven we have below

Sir Thomas Armstrong29:51

You have Aldous Huxley?

Sir Thomas Armstrong29:53

Saying that for many people music has taken the place of organized religion.

Sir Thomas Armstrong29:59

But there's another side to all that, and you've got to remember Bernard Shaw saying that hell is full of musical amateurs, and music is the brandy of the damned.

Sir Thomas Armstrong30:11

Well, certainly was sometimes when I turn on the radio.

Sir Thomas Armstrong30:15

The music that I hear doesn't make me think of heaven, and if I'm taken to hear Strauss's Salome,

Sir Thomas Armstrong30:22

The only thought I have about heaven

Sir Thomas Armstrong30:24

Is it a place where I shan't be required to sit through the dance of the seven vales?

Sir Thomas Armstrong30:30

But music does offer one all that is best in life.

Sir Thomas Armstrong30:36

Man needs

Sir Thomas Armstrong30:38

To worship.

Sir Thomas Armstrong30:39

Man needs something beyond

Sir Thomas Armstrong30:43

the experiences of ordinary life.

Sir Thomas Armstrong30:46

And this is, I think, leads us to our last record.

Sir Thomas Armstrong30:51

When one is taking part in the B minor Mass, the Sanctus, or listening to it, or studying it, one can feel that one is taking a small part in the greater act of worship

Sir Thomas Armstrong31:06

That all mankind

Sir Thomas Armstrong31:09

offers to the Supreme Being.

Sir Thomas Armstrong31:12

You could call it God, you could call it supreme being as they did in the French Revolution.

Sir Thomas Armstrong31:18

But

Sir Thomas Armstrong31:19

It's the act of worship

Sir Thomas Armstrong31:21

That is important for us all.

Presenter32:23

The Sanctus from Bach's Mass in B minor, sung by the B B C Chorus with the new Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Otto Klemperer.

Presenter32:31

Well, now, Sir Thomas, which of those eight pieces of music would you select as the one most important to you?

Sir Thomas Armstrong32:37

Dealis is Brig Fair.

Presenter32:40

Why do you choose that one?

Sir Thomas Armstrong32:41

Well, I can't tell you the reason, but it is so.

Presenter32:45

Right.

Presenter32:46

And um a book would you like to have on your island with you? You you have, I think you know, the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare.

Sir Thomas Armstrong32:53

Well, I think if you've got those you have enough.

Presenter32:53

Board.

Sir Thomas Armstrong32:56

And I would like to take the

Sir Thomas Armstrong32:59

Brahm's edition of Coupéras.

Sir Thomas Armstrong33:03

Les Ordes

Sir Thomas Armstrong33:04

Because I'm going to ask you to let me have a luxury which would be my clavichord.

Sir Thomas Armstrong33:09

and I should play them on the clavichord.

Sir Thomas Armstrong33:12

Sitting on the beach

Sir Thomas Armstrong33:13

No, it's either in the

Sir Thomas Armstrong33:16

shack which I could build.

Sir Thomas Armstrong33:18

or in a cave which I could discover.

Presenter33:22

Right. Well, I hope you will enjoy yourself very much.

Sir Thomas Armstrong33:25

I had uh made every provision to do so.

Presenter33:29

Are you sure?

Sir Thomas Armstrong33:29

Thank you very much.

Presenter33:30

Yeah.

Sir Thomas Armstrong33:33

I am determined to enjoy myself.

Presenter33:36

Sir Thomas Armstrong, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Speaker 333:48

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.