Boy George

Speaker 20:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 20:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen eighty nine.

Speaker 20:11

And the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:29

My castaway this week is a singer who is very much a child of his time. When he first came to our attention seven years ago, it was as much for his make up and unusual clothes as anything else. Since then, however, he's established himself as a continuingly popular entertainer, proving that his talent, like his disguise, is more enduring than many people thought. But the way to the top has not always been easy. He's had to conquer an addiction to drugs. Some of his friends have lost that battle and died. And his private life has been the subject of much public speculation. He is, of course, Boy George. And Boy George, whatever else he is or is not, is a survivor, I think.

Boy George1:09

Well, I don't know about that, but it's nice to think so.

Boy George1:12

Whatever happens to you in your life, if you go through sort of tragedies, I think that they do in a lot of ways make you a better person.

Boy George1:17

You learn from your mistakes. I mean, I'm a much better person in a lot of ways than I was when I was a teenager. I'm a lot more stable.

Boy George1:23

You know, I I tend to sort of think more now than I did before, so I suppose in a way it's it's a good thing.

Presenter1:28

But one's tempted to believe that there is somebody up there looking after you.

Boy George1:33

No really. I think it's it's more to do with the people around you. You know, I think that I have good friends, I have good family.

Boy George1:39

And uh not to get too sentimental. But I think I have people that around me that care about me and I think that's one of the things that you need.

Presenter1:46

We'll talk about your life and it and its highs and its lows in a moment, but let's first, if we may, explore the concept of boy George alone on a desert island. It's um doesn't strike me as being quite your habitat.

Boy George1:57

Well, I've been I haven't been on a desert island. I've been to like tropical places and I've enjoyed it, but I really do prefer the company of people. I mean, I think one of the things that would drive me really crazy would be not seeing people, because that's really how I I've always based my life. You know, I need company of other people. I find it very difficult to be on my own.

Boy George2:14

So I don't know how I deal with being on a desert island with a bunch of coconuts and a palm tree.

Presenter2:19

And how would you deal with the sun and the sand and living off the land and all that?

Boy George2:25

Well, I think a lot of people like to think they'd be able to cope with it, but I don't know. I think I'm I'm very much a modern person in the sense that I like

Boy George2:32

Oh, the amenities

Boy George2:34

Life, I don't know if I'll be able to cope with it really, to be quite honest.

Presenter2:37

How have you chosen your records? What are they?

Boy George2:40

I've really chosen records that make me feel good, and I think music should either make you feel happy or sad, or both.

Boy George2:47

And I tend to choose records that are immediate. And also I'm very much into characters. Somebody doesn't necessarily have to be a good singer, although I have chosen some people that are fine singers here, but I just choose people

Boy George2:59

for their character and just that they do something to me when I hear the record. I mean, in particular the first one.

Boy George3:06

which is Marlon Dietrich Blowing in the Wind. It's a Bob Dylan song, but I think this is a far superior version. I mean a lot of people are gonna gag when they hear me say that, but I this just makes me feel really happy. This the music is so quirky, I love this one.

Speaker 33:18

How many times must the cannonballs fly before they're forever banned?

Speaker 33:31

The answer, my friend.

Speaker 33:34

Is blown in the wind The answer is blown in the wind

Presenter3:47

Marliner Dietrich singing Blowin' in the Wind.

Presenter3:50

You are, George, as I was saying at the beginning, one of the um durable figures of the eighties pop scene. It's strange, therefore, to think that when you first appeared, people laughed at you in that mask-like make up and effeminate clothes.

Boy George4:03

Well, when I was a teenager I was heavily influenced by people that I I would term as very colourful flamboyant, people like Mark Bolin.

Boy George4:12

I mean, I used to have posters I'm up on and smothered all over my wall. I was constantly having them ripped down by my grandmother. You can't like him, he's a puff and things like that, and David Bowie was the other one. So I think my reasons for wanting to be an entertainer, and I use that word quite widely, is that I wanted to be like them, I suppose. I mean, when I was remember watching David Bowie performing Starman on Top of the Pops and

Boy George4:36

I was sitting there with a big smile from ear to ear and my mother was going, Oh, it's disgusting, it's disgusting So, I mean, I think it's just something that you accept, you know.

Presenter4:43

Yes, but it must have taken guts in your case. I mean, other people stand up and do strange things, but there you were, a man, standing up, heavily coated in make up, and, as I say, wearing very effeminate clothes. You must have known it would appeal, or you must have been deeply ambitious.

Boy George4:58

Actually, you know, I didn't know it would would appeal at all. For a long time before the band e ever took off, e before I entered music I was dressing up walking around London, you know. England is one of those countries where you can actually be a star without doing very much, which is great, I think, in a lot of ways.

Presenter5:13

And did you sense, though, even then, that you might be going to be famous?

Boy George5:17

Well, when I met my manager, once I got friendly with him he said, you know, if you can be like you are with me on your own, in public, people will like you.

Boy George5:26

Because I had this big thing about people not liking me. I think one of the things about me is that I've always wanted to be liked. Which is I think it's one of the reasons why I get very defensive sometimes because I if I think people are having a go at me, then I get defensive. But I've always just wanted to be liked by everybody. I know that sounds really pathetic, but it's true. I just try and be myself. I just try and be George and if people like that, they like it. I mean a lot of people still don't like me, but

Boy George5:49

You know, there you go.

Presenter5:50

But you and your set had been sort of dressing up in various costumes. I mean, as Bodicir one minute and a nun the next, huh?

Boy George5:56

Now

Presenter5:58

Wh where did you hang out? Where where where was it all happening?

Boy George6:01

Well, I'm I once went as bolaser to the Changing of the Guards once, one morning really early. I just decided it would be a good idea, so we left our squad and trotted off down to Buckingham Palace and spent about two hours being photographed by Japanese people. I'd love to see some of those pictures. We used used to go to nightclubs really, and it was a good way of getting in free everywhere.

Boy George6:19

Because people really didn't know what they were dealing with. You know, you walked into a premiere

Boy George6:24

You just walked in and sort of acted like you were meant to be there. I suppose it was a very kind of like hedonistic existence, you know, sort of partying all the time, but that's the kind of thing you want to do when you're sort of seventeen, fifteen, sixteen.

Presenter6:35

And then Marilyn turned up at this squat. Marilyn being a a a true transvestite, a man dressed up as a woman, not just you as you were, taking on the trappings of a female. And together, I mean you went about together, didn't you?

Boy George6:47

Well, he was a lot more convincing than I was, you see. Keeping saying that, he was, you know, I mean, I was sort of.

Presenter6:49

You can say that again.

Boy George6:52

I don't know, really. I was more into sort of I suppose the shock tactics of it, if you like. Marilyn was definitely into sort of people actually thinking he was female, which is quite a trip.

Boy George7:01

But where is he now?

Presenter7:03

Where is he now?

Boy George7:04

I think it's in LA actually.

Presenter7:06

Let's have your second record, shall we?

Boy George7:08

This is um It Must Be Love by Madness, who I think are one of the best groups this decade.

Speaker 37:15

And I never thought I'd feel this way, the way I feel.

Speaker 37:21

About you?

Speaker 37:29

As soon as I wake up, every night

Speaker 37:32

Every day.

Speaker 37:35

I know that it's you and me to take the blues away

Speaker 37:42

It must be love.

Presenter7:45

It Must Be Love, sung by Madness.

Presenter7:48

Can we, George, hear something about your your early life? Now, you were born twenty-seven years ago of Irish parents in South East London, a big family it was.

Boy George7:56

He has six kids.

Presenter7:58

All brothers?

Boy George7:59

I think I've got four brothers and one sister.

Presenter8:02

You sure?

Boy George8:02

Yeah, definitely.

Presenter8:04

Close knit.

Boy George8:05

Yes and no. Um when you come from a big family you're constantly fighting for attention and um I think it's very difficult. I mean I think b a a relationship between two people is hard enough. So a relationship between eight must be hell, as you can imagine. But um my parents all c had quite a tough

Speaker 28:19

Can you imagine?

Presenter8:20

See a

Boy George8:23

Life when we were kids. My father worked all the time. I mean, they didn't really have much leisure time.

Presenter8:28

And your your mum nearly lost you under a car one day, is that right?

Boy George8:31

Well, it wasn't quite like that, when I was about fifteen, I had a.

Boy George8:35

Very, very bad romance. And um I got completely drunk, broke into the drinks cabinet and drunk a whole bottle of whisky and ran off into the night and sort of ended up in Welling High Street in the middle of the road and I was brought back I think by some really nice lady. I've never seen her since. I'd like to see her again. She sort of took me home. I managed to mumble where I came from. Took me home. I actually haven't drunk whisky since then. I can't stand the smell of it. It always reminds me of being really drunk.

Presenter9:03

The f

Presenter9:04

But you were not a success at school. There's this wonderful phrase, I think your headmaster's responsible for your ex-headmaster is responsible for it, isn't it? That your school career was unblemished by achievement.

Presenter9:15

Well

Boy George9:16

It depends really. I mean, I was very popular at school, with the girls anyway, and s some of the teachers liked me. My drama teacher loved me and uh my art teacher liked me too. But I mean the rest of it I found very frustrating. I think school is a very unnatural thing to do. You know, when when in your life are you forced to sit in a room with forty people that you've got nothing in common with? It's a totally alien situation to be in.

Boy George9:38

I think once you learn to read and write and a little bit of maths, you know, sign a check, I think then it's time to leave. I don't really I'm not really a school person. I mean, I think it's obviously necessary, but it didn't work for me.

Presenter9:49

You were expelled, Nien.

Boy George9:51

Yeah, or worse.

Presenter9:52

What for?

Boy George9:53

Um

Boy George9:54

I came into school really late and when you came to school late in high school you had to stand on we had this big concourse which had black and white squares and you had to stand on a black square.

Boy George10:03

And um you had to stand there for half an hour with your hands behind your back, as straight as possible. And then the headmaster would come up the staircase from the assembly room. He used to wear this big, long Batman cape with a thousand pleats on it and a tassel.

Boy George10:17

Very stylish man. He'd come up and he would sort of walk round you looking up up and down at you and sort of looking at your clothes and basically making you feel very degraded. This sounds very sad, doesn't it? And then he would um choose who he was going to whack that morning.

Boy George10:30

I'd been off school, I'd just had my hair dyed bright orange and um I don't think he liked that very much. So he kind of chose to to whack me and we ended up having this big fight.

Boy George10:40

And uh I said, Well, I'm I'm not taking the cane, you know, basically. Forget it So she said, Well, you're leaving the school I said, Fine, wonderful And I was out the door as quick as you could say, you know, jumping jack flash.

Boy George10:51

And that was it, that was the end of my school career, really.

Presenter10:53

Plu 15.

Boy George10:55

Just yeah.

Presenter10:56

Let's have your next record.

Boy George10:58

This is by Gladys Knight in the Pips. It's called If I Were Your Woman. There's no r particular reason for this choice, I just wanted to choose a Gladys Knight record because she's one of my I think she is my favourite female singer since I was a teenager.

Speaker 311:10

If I were your woman.

Speaker 311:13

And you were my mate.

Speaker 311:16

You'd have no other

Speaker 311:19

You'd be weak as a lamb

Speaker 311:23

If you have the strength

Speaker 311:26

To walk out that door

Speaker 311:29

My love would overrule my sins And I'd call you back for more if I were you

Presenter11:37

If I Were Your Woman by Gladys Knight and the Pips. They're all very romantic, these records of yours, George.

Boy George11:42

Yeah, I'm a sucker for remnants, I'm afraid.

Presenter11:45

So when did you hit it big? How did it happen?

Boy George11:47

I think the biggest year was nineteen eighty three with Carl McCameleon.

Presenter11:51

Your first album sold four million around the world, the second sold ten million, I think. How did you take to fame? Did you just

Boy George11:55

I think

Presenter11:59

Put it on easily.

Boy George12:00

Like a duck to water. No, really. I ju I don't know. It was all a bit um bewildering really. It was a bit kind of like there was a little bit of arrogance and a little bit of confusion. I think a little bit of everything really. It was like, what's happening? But you know, you don't question success.

Boy George12:14

You just go with it, you know, you just like, okay.

Presenter12:16

And you had a natural flair, anyway, for publicity, didn't you? I mean, you enjoyed it.

Presenter12:20

Well, I think

Boy George12:21

Everybody does when it's good publicity.

Presenter12:24

But what I mean is you're a natural flirt in that sense, that you will happily say something outrageous'cause you know it will get into the papers or

Boy George12:32

Well, I I say that I I u I do that anyway. I mean, I've always done that, even when I was a kid, you know, I would say things to my parents that I knew would annoy them. So, I think it was a kind of natural thing. I think now more than ever I'm probably really guarded about what I say.

Boy George12:45

Not because I don't want to say it, because I still feel exactly the same way, and I still feel and think the same things. I think that you realize, for instance, there were people.

Boy George12:53

In the heyday of Culture Club, at the newspapers, that I was really friendly with them. I mean, I drank with them and had tea with them, whatever, you know.

Boy George13:01

Then when it all started to go wrong, they were all

Boy George13:04

as vicious as they possibly could be, which really did surprise me. That may sound really naive, but it made me think, wow, I'm really stupid. Of course, I'm not really stupid, but I mean, I am in a lot of ways naive in that sense because I think

Boy George13:16

Everybody is a good person until proved otherwise.

Presenter13:20

Do you feel that the press, for your part, has proved itself otherwise, or do you not bear them any ill will?

Boy George13:26

It depends, you know, I think.

Boy George13:28

I try to look at it with a bit of humour and just think, okay, I'll wait to see what they're going to say, you know.

Presenter13:32

But we're talking about a group of people, the press, who camped outside your house one Christmas and told your mother that they were waiting for you to die.

Boy George13:36

Christmas

Boy George13:39

Yeah, I know. It's uh

Boy George13:41

Well, I think you know it's all down to money, really.

Boy George13:44

If it's that important to them.

Boy George13:46

to get their twenty-five pounds for the story or their picture.

Presenter13:50

Did it surprise you that there was a time when, talking about check book journalism, that there was a contract out on you that that anybody could have made from Fleet Street thousands of pounds to tell a story about you

Boy George14:02

Let you know who your friends are, so in a lot of ways it really cleans out my phone book.

Boy George14:07

Yeah.

Boy George14:09

That is

Presenter14:09

That is called positive thinking.

Boy George14:11

So you just think, okay.

Boy George14:13

I've forgiven some people.

Boy George14:16

Because I know that I have underneath they're quite decent people, but a lot of people, in particular, Marilyn.

Boy George14:22

As I said earlier, I don't know where he is and I don't particularly care, but I think, you know, there's certain people that I kind of

Boy George14:29

In fact, if they do give me their number again, I'll write it in in pencil.

Presenter14:33

Let's pause for the fourth record.

Boy George14:34

Well as I said earlier, this was one of my heroes when I was a teenager, this is Mark Bowlin. I think this is a brilliant song. It's really simple and to the point, Life's a Guess.

Speaker 314:49

Could have loved you girl like a planet

Speaker 314:57

Could have changed your heart to a star

Speaker 315:03

And what it really doesn't matter at all.

Speaker 315:07

Now it really doesn't matter at all.

Speaker 315:11

Love's a guy.

Presenter15:14

Mark Bolin and Life's a Gas. So, George, nineteen eighty three, nineteen eighty four, success and more success. And then suddenly it all began to go wrong. Why did it go wrong?

Boy George15:25

I don't know, who knows?

Boy George15:26

We put an album out that the critics didn't like.

Boy George15:30

And I don't think we liked it either, to be quite honest with you.'Cause sometimes you read reviews and you think, Yeah, it's quite true really, but there's nothing much you can do about it'cause you've already done it. So, you know, you have to kinda like wait for the grenade to go off.

Boy George15:42

And um that's really when it started to go wrong. I mean I think if we'd have

Boy George15:46

Codon being successful. I don't know what would have happened, who's to say? But I think really.

Boy George15:50

Once we started getting bad write-ups about our music and we didn't get played on the radio, we had our first single that bombed, Radio One didn't play it, so it was like

Boy George16:01

What's a boy to do? You know, a bit like that, really. I mean, I remember talking to a journalist and I said, Well, what would you do if you brought a story into Editor and he said, This is rubbish. You know, I'm going to get someone younger with a better haircut.

Boy George16:12

You know, how would you feel? And I think everybody feels the same. So things just started to go wrong.

Boy George16:18

It's a lot of leisure time, I think.

Boy George16:20

Had lots of money.

Boy George16:22

Didn't really have to do anything.

Presenter16:23

Is that why you turn to drugs?

Boy George16:23

Is that why you turned it?

Boy George16:25

I don't know really. I don't know.

Boy George16:27

I really can't say.

Presenter16:29

But that just suddenly happened.

Boy George16:31

I mean if there was an answer then I think a lot of other people wouldn't turn to drugs. If there was a a clean cut answer then it would make life a lot simpler. But I don't think there is one, to be quite honest with you.

Boy George16:41

It's impossible to say what it is.

Presenter16:43

I suppose um the psychologist would say it was perhaps to do with guilt, having too much money, or guilt about your sex life, which was less than orthodox. Deep Irish Catholic guilt.

Boy George16:52

Deep Irish Catholic guilt. I mean, I don't come from a dogmatic Catholic family anyway. My parents do believe in God, you know, but I don't know if it's anything to do with Catholic guilt, because we were never brought up to be guilty, you know. In our house, you know, God was someone that was pretty nice.

Presenter16:55

I don't know about that.

Boy George17:08

You thanked God when you were

Boy George17:10

Totally distraught.

Boy George17:12

It wasn't something that was used against us.

Presenter17:13

And you still do that?

Boy George17:15

Do I still do it? I've been through a couple of weird religious stages. I have a lot of religious things in my house. A lot of people say that there's definitely something going on, but I don't know. What sort of religious things? I've got icons and I collect a lot of

Speaker 217:23

What sort of village is

Boy George17:27

sort of statues. When I was in America I bought a lot of sort of Jesus statues. People react differently to them. They sort of say ugh I mean, I don't buy any of those horrible ones with the blood or anything like that. I wouldn't have anything like that in my house. But the kind of I don't know, I really like religious imagery, I always have.

Boy George17:41

So I mean maybe that you know, the psychologists probably have a field day with that as well.

Presenter17:45

Where did you find? I mean, you've beaten the drugs completely, haven't you? It's gone. That's it.

Boy George17:50

Two and a half years now.

Presenter17:51

Where did you find the strength from to fight it?

Boy George17:55

I don't know really. I think so many bad things happened and

Boy George17:59

I know. I mean, one of the really the strongest images I have to this day is.

Boy George18:04

I were watching the news and my mum being on the news and her face was so sad and I thought and that really kind of I thought about okay, this is enough.

Boy George18:16

And I think when I saw that, it was affecting my family. I mean, it was affecting all of my family and all they wanted to do really was go about their business, you know.

Presenter18:24

What was your mother saying?

Boy George18:25

She wasn't saying anything, it was just like a a kind of slow motion thing on the news, you know, so coming out of court and I just thought this is

Boy George18:33

It's however, you know, I think there's a time in everyone's life when they're

Speaker 218:33

But yeah.

Boy George18:37

Doing think you know, whether it be alcohol

Boy George18:40

you know, overworking, anything that's an addiction,'cause they're all addictions. But I think like for instance now I d I tend to do a lot of things, like I do I do relaxation classes now.

Boy George18:50

And I do.

Boy George18:52

I teach I have singing lessons now which I never did before.

Presenter18:55

Let's have your next record.

Boy George18:57

This is a

Boy George18:58

By Elizabeth Welsh and it's Stormy Weather. This is an old classic song. It's from Derek Jarman's film The Tempest. I wanted to play this for Derek and uh'cause it's a brilliant song and a really good choice that he put in the film and I just love this version.

Speaker 319:14

Life is bad.

Speaker 319:18

Gloom and misery everywhere

Speaker 319:21

Stormy weather.

Speaker 319:24

Just can't get my poor self together.

Speaker 319:31

I'm weary old the time.

Presenter19:37

Stormy Weather, sung by Elizabeth Welch from Derek Jarman's film, The Tempest. Well, George, we talked about drugs. Um presumably you've um also felt fear of the other great scourge of our time, which is AIDS.

Boy George19:50

Oh oh no. Yeah, I do. I mean I don't know if I do really actually, to be quite honest with you, because

Boy George19:57

You know, I don't know really, I don't I'm not very promiscuous, never have really been, so I don't really I mean, of course I'm concerned about it, I'm concerned about it for everybody, not just for myself, which I think is important, because I think a lot of people take a very selfish view about it, you know, and it's like

Boy George20:13

you know, it only happens to gay people, it only happens to

Boy George20:16

you know, people that take drugs, it can happen to anybody, and I think that's becoming more and more apparent.

Boy George20:20

I sp I think if I was kinda like an ordinary

Boy George20:23

I'd never like to be ordinary, but if I was like a working person and, you know, like a nine to five type job and all I did was go out looking for people to sleep with

Boy George20:31

And I think it would probably depress me a lot more.

Boy George20:34

I tend to sort of think more about my work.

Boy George20:37

Than sex.

Boy George20:39

Okay, that's not going to be one of those quits. I prefer a l good day's work to sex, says poor George.

Presenter20:43

Uh

Presenter20:45

But all of which brings us back to the question which you know you always get asked, which is you and your your sexuality.

Boy George20:53

Mm-hmm.

Presenter20:53

Um I was going to say the problem of your sexuality, but your sexuality is not a problem to you, is it?

Boy George20:59

No. And I don't see why it should be a problem to anybody else, really.

Presenter21:01

I don't think we're

Boy George21:02

People are all confused.

Presenter21:02

Uh

Boy George21:03

But, you know.

Boy George21:05

I mean, I would never dream of asking you what you did, you know.

Presenter21:09

Well, I could define myself. I could say I was a normal heterosexual female. What can you say?

Boy George21:16

Hacksay I'm a normal.

Boy George21:19

What was that famous quote um of Quentin Crispy You are practicing homosexual? No, I'm perfect, I don't have to practice.

Presenter21:28

But you enjoy confusing us, don't you?

Boy George21:30

I don't know if I enjoy confusing people, but I just think I don't know what I want from one year to the next. It changes all the time, you know. And that's not a cop-out or a sitting on the fence. I just think that.

Boy George21:40

You know, you never know what you're going to be and what you're going to do.

Presenter21:43

You have said that you'd like to have children.

Boy George21:45

Yeah, I'd like to. But if I ever see a fragrance on this, like sometimes I watch, you know, watch TV, there's a thing on the other night about adoption. I was thinking, oh, they're gorgeous, you know, but you just.

Boy George21:53

I mean, I don't think I'd be allowed to, really, although I'd I'd make a fine parent.

Presenter21:57

Would you?

Boy George21:57

Yeah, I think I would.

Boy George21:59

I think it's difficult being a parent. Obviously it'd be easier for me'cause I've got more money.

Boy George22:03

Yeah, and I can sort of probably then probably I'd spoil them.

Boy George22:07

But I would like to I'd like to have a child.

Presenter22:09

And when you say you'd like to have a child, do you mean you you'd like to have one simply in that sense of of maybe adopting one, or do you mean you would like to father a child?

Boy George22:17

Ether, I'm not fussy.

Boy George22:20

Either.

Presenter22:22

So you might have to do it.

Boy George22:22

Whatever's easiest at the time.

Presenter22:24

Yeah.

Presenter22:25

Depends who's around. But you so you might, you never know, become really quite orthodox and and get married and have children.

Boy George22:33

Well, I don't think you need to get married to have a child.

Boy George22:35

Just think you have to care about it.

Boy George22:37

And, you know, give it some kind of stable life. That's all.

Presenter22:42

Let's have a record.

Boy George22:44

This is Ella FitzGerald, obviously one of the greatest singers in the world.

Boy George22:50

This is when a woman loves a man.

Speaker 322:53

Maybe he's not much.

Speaker 322:59

Just another round.

Speaker 323:03

Doing what he can.

Speaker 323:09

But what does she care when a woman loves

Speaker 323:16

What a man!

Presenter23:22

When a woman loves a man by who else but Ella Fitzgerald. George, how do you keep um body and soul together these days? You're you're a fitness freak, are you?

Boy George23:31

At the moment I am, yeah. It's the first time in my life when I've ever actually done exercise. I was up at nine o'clock this morning. I have a guy that comes round to my house.

Boy George23:39

And does we do an hour every morning?

Boy George23:42

Mainly it's for relaxation. I mean I

Boy George23:44

A friend of mine told me about he does a class. I didn't want to go there'cause I don't know, I d I always get really embarrassed about going to places with lots of other people with similar problems. And um it's about being in a doctor's surgery, you know, so I don't like it. But I just got in touch with them.

Boy George24:00

And uh he comes and visits me and it's great. But he's quite strict. I mean it's not like jokey or anything. He

Boy George24:06

If I mess around these oscillators.

Presenter24:10

You're very fussy about what you eat.

Boy George24:12

Yeah.

Presenter24:13

How fussy.

Boy George24:14

Prave are macrobiotic.

Boy George24:16

But Maccabatikis

Boy George24:17

Worse than vigue.

Boy George24:19

I have my friends say it's like eating bark of tree and a blade of grass. I have I eat all whole foods, brown rice, lentils, and lots of vegetables. Don't eat any cheese. I don't eat potatoes. Meat? Don't eat any meat. I eat white fish. Freshwater fish.

Presenter24:34

Me?

Presenter24:39

What do you drink?

Boy George24:40

Uh

Boy George24:40

Um herb teas.

Boy George24:42

Water, hot water.

Boy George24:45

Oh, and fruit juices.

Presenter24:47

And and how do you look after um

Presenter24:49

Your mind, how do you give yourself peace of mind?

Boy George24:53

Um that's a difficult one. I'm still working on that. But I think basically with

Boy George24:58

I think, you know, as I said before, you know, I j I have really good friends now, people that I

Boy George25:03

I think I can trust, and feel that I can trust.

Boy George25:06

Or or even more to the point, people that I don't have to

Boy George25:11

P.

Boy George25:12

Boy George with

Presenter25:13

Shall we have your seventh record?

Boy George25:16

This is um Woman to Woman, and this is one of those seventies records, it's very, very funny.

Boy George25:22

You have to listen to it really. It always makes me laugh this record.

Speaker 325:26

The car he drives, I pay the note every month.

Speaker 325:30

So I'm telling you these things to let you know how much I love that man.

Speaker 325:34

And woman to woman, I think you'll understand just how much I'll do to keep it.

Speaker 325:41

Woman to woman.

Speaker 325:44

If you've ever been in love.

Speaker 325:49

Then you know

Presenter25:55

Woman to Woman sung by Shirley Brown.

Presenter25:59

So George has the novelty of being boy George.

Presenter26:03

And all that that entails. Has the novelty worn off a bit now?

Boy George26:05

No, not at all. But it is really nice. I mean, like, for the last two years, particularly last year, towards the end of last year.

Boy George26:12

I felt like everybody else, it was just a really nice feeling, you know, just kind of going out to clubs.

Speaker 226:14

Pretty good.

Boy George26:17

And I think you kind of desensitize people if you go out all the time,'cause then they're like, Oh yeah, there's George, and they leave you alone. Whereas if you turn up in a big hat and, you know, swagger in, everybody's like, mm, like he's trying to get attention.

Presenter26:29

What about money? I mean, you've presumably still got lots of it, doesn't it?

Boy George26:33

Yeah.

Boy George26:35

See that?

Presenter26:35

Does it matter to you?

Boy George26:36

Well

Boy George26:37

It's not more important than my integrity, I mean.

Boy George26:40

Let me take a little scoop here. I'm currently having a bit of a big fight with my American record company.

Boy George26:46

I used to be signed to CBS in America, I'm now signed to the hideous Virgin Records in America as well, which is a real disaster for me.

Boy George26:53

I'm very dogmatic about things, especially with my work. For instance, you know, they do things like.

Boy George26:57

You'll do the most amazing photograph in colour and the American Record Company will decide that they'd like to put it on the cover of the record in black and white, so it looks like you're not wearing any makeup.

Boy George27:08

America recognizes in America they're run by people. It's like everybody's trying to make the most money. It's like corporate games. And you are the least important thing. You know, the great thing about this country is that whatever happens, it's the best place to be when you're an artist.

Boy George27:21

Even though you have bad times, England is much better because we allow for growth and we allow for ideas, you know, we allow people to express themselves, which they don't in America. That's why I've never gone there. My Kataris is moving there next month. I mean, I probably will go and spend some time there this year if I get my visa back, but I definitely, definitely wouldn't go and live in America.

Presenter27:42

So you're at peace in this country. Wh where do you live? You live in London.

Boy George27:46

I live in Hempstead, yeah, it's no secret.

Boy George27:50

I have loads of people outside my house all the time. What what sort of house do you live in? It is a really beautiful house. I mean, I chose it because it's got a lot of character and it's gothic. I don't know, it looks good now. The guy who makes my clothes said it looks the best it's ever looked.

Presenter28:03

Can I ask you the the classic question really? You are George O'Dowd, born and bred in Shooters Hill. It's seven years on and now you're sitting here being talked to about your life and talking about my guitarist the man who designs my clothes. You sound like a star.

Boy George28:08

Wow, it

Boy George28:15

Are you sure?

Boy George28:19

I don't know if I think of myself oh yeah, I do think of myself as a star.

Boy George28:22

It would be a lie to say that I didn't because everybody a lot of people treat me like I am. I mean, I'm not like Michael Jackson or anything like that.

Boy George28:29

You know.

Boy George28:30

I mean, if I I mean, I've met lots of famous people. You know, I still have

Boy George28:34

People that I admire. I mean, I've been trying to get together with Bette Davis for the last year.

Boy George28:39

She phoned me at Christmas and wished me happy Christmas. I've never met her, but I've wanted to meet her for years.

Presenter28:45

And you've sent her dozens of red roses.

Boy George28:47

I have as well. And I mean, you know, Liz Taylor's another one I'd like to meet. And there's so many people. So I mean I still am very much touched by it. So perhaps that's why I enjoy it, because I still look at there are still people that I think, wow, I'd love to meet them.

Presenter28:59

But for you, um being boy George and being a star, when all is said and done, despite all of your experiences, it's actually quite a nice thing to be, a happy thing to be.

Boy George29:10

Now I have often wondered like what's the point of it all? You know, you think, Well, what's the point of this? you know. But, you know, I get letters from people and it really makes you think, you know, you just think you do some stupid little thing that you think's nothing, like you write a letter to somebody. I mean, I spend a lot of time writing to people and you just do it. I mean, it could be like two lines or a picture.

Boy George29:28

And the response you get from that is brilliant.

Presenter29:31

Your eighth record.

Boy George29:32

This one is Tom Robinson and this is called War Baby.

Boy George29:36

This is just a really nice song.

Speaker 329:38

Smooth skin and tenderness, long ago in a dark night Wish I could see you once again, just to remember that it was true

Speaker 329:47

I wanna be still beside you

Speaker 329:50

Quiet and still beside you, listen to your breathing.

Speaker 329:55

Feeling your warmth again

Speaker 329:59

Uh

Speaker 330:00

What believers?

Presenter30:07

Tom Robinson singing War Baby

Presenter30:10

So, George, if you could only take one of those records with you, which one would it be?

Boy George30:15

Probably be the madness record.

Presenter30:17

It must be love.

Boy George30:18

Uh

Presenter30:19

Bye.

Boy George30:20

Because it's sort of the arrangement of that song I mean, this sounds really technical. The arrangement was really sort of happy, but it's quite a sad song. I remember when I used to hear it on the radio, it always made me really sad. Sagzi isn't a brilliant, brilliant vocalist, but he's got so much character.

Boy George30:33

And it just seems like he works really hard.

Presenter30:35

And a book, i you've got the complete works of Shakespeare, and you've got the Bible.

Boy George30:39

I don't know.

Presenter30:40

Why don't you laugh? You might want to read them.

Boy George30:42

I shouldn't think I would.

Presenter30:45

What would you like to take as well as those?

Boy George30:47

I'd probably take a photo album.

Boy George30:49

One of my favourite albums from like

Boy George30:51

nineteen seventy nine, around that period. So I used to collect a lot of photos and I got some brilliant photos. I'll probably take one of those. Just because I always like to feel that I'm in contact with people, whether it be physically or spiritually or whatever or mentally, or just in my thoughts. I just I you know, I I definitely am one of those people that needs company, so God knows what I do on a desert island.

Boy George31:13

A totally distressing experience for me, I think.

Presenter31:17

And you're allowed a luxury. What would you like to take for that?

Boy George31:20

I take a radio.

Presenter31:21

Why?

Boy George31:22

Because then I think I I'd like to have that illusion that there were people

Boy George31:27

It said it out really loud and leaf over one side of the island so it'd sound like there were people.

Presenter31:32

All right, you can have a radio.

Presenter31:34

Boy George, George O'Dowd, boy as they call you in America, boy, thank you very much for letting us give you Desert Island Disc. Thank you.

Speaker 231:40

Uh

Speaker 331:40

Yeah.

Speaker 231:41

Uh

Speaker 231:49

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists Archive. For more podcasts please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.