Edward Heath

Speaker 30:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 30:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen eighty eight, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:29

My castaway this week is a man who has tasted triumph and endured isolation.

Presenter0:36

The path to triumph began when as a young Conservative minister he was responsible for negotiating Britain's entry into the common market.

Presenter0:43

It culminated when, as Prime Minister, he signed the treaty which made this country a member of the European Community.

Presenter0:51

The isolation began three years later, when, after defeat in two general elections, he lost the leadership of his party. He has never held political office since.

Presenter1:01

Greatly admired abroad, but treated with a certain caution at home, his good taste and wide interests have allowed him to enjoy many things politics, music, and a love of the sea. He is, of course, the Right Honourable EDWARD Heath, MP.

Presenter1:18

mister Heath, which of those three things, I wonder, has brought you greatest pleasure, politics, music, or your love of the sea?

Edward Heath1:24

I think I'm fortunate in that they all have. In fact, I think they've complemented each other.

Edward Heath1:29

You can't spend all your life on politics. Those people who think the politics are the be all and end all of life are greatly mistaken, and I think they suffer from it.

Presenter1:38

Do the three things, do you think, have anything in in common? Conducting orchestras, captaining, crews, and indeed cabinets?

Edward Heath1:44

Well, with an orchestra at least they're all trying to go the same way.

Edward Heath1:49

One hopes a crew is, but one's never sure about a cabinet.

Presenter1:53

Well, I I mentioned isolation in my introduction to you. Um we have in mind for you um a warm but um solitary isolation and an enforced one on our desert island. Does the thought of that worry you?

Edward Heath2:06

It horrifies me because I like people, I like good company, I like uh good food and wine and enjoying myself.

Edward Heath2:13

On the other hand, I have never had any real time just to sit back and do nothing.

Edward Heath2:19

And so that'll be a relief to be able to do that on a desert island.

Presenter2:23

So you have music on the island, which I know um will be great consolation for you. I presume it has taken you a long, long time to boil it down to eight records.

Edward Heath2:33

I think it's an almost impossible task which you've set. You do it so charmingly that of course one can't resist. But uh

Edward Heath2:39

All the musical experience one has, and all the works one knows, and all the records one collected, and then he was a just eight.

Presenter2:46

Let's hear your first one. What's it to be?

Edward Heath2:49

Well the first one I've chosen for a number of reasons, but it's uh the beginning of the Vaughan Williams C Symphony.

Edward Heath2:55

which I think is a tremendous work.

Edward Heath2:57

When I went up to Oxford, I joined the Oxford Bach Choir, and this was the first work we sang.

Edward Heath3:03

I remember being thrilled by it, and also by the fact that it was conducted by Sir Hugh Allen, who was professor of music at that time, and a very great personality.

Edward Heath3:11

And I remember him telling us that uh the first performance at the Leeds Festival was really a failure.

Edward Heath3:17

And then they d he did it with the Bach Choir. And afterwards Vaughan Williams wrote on his score, I thought I had written the unsingable work, but now you have sung it.

Edward Heath3:28

Of course for me it's also the sea, this magnificent opening with the trumpet calls as the wave comes along, and then the crash as it rolls over you. Well, that's something I've experienced so often.

Presenter4:37

The opening of Vaughan Williams' Sea Symphony with the London Symphony Orchestra and Chorus conducted by Andre Previn. Well, now, we were talking about the Sea. You were born at the Seaside, um, at Broadstairs in Kent, uh, in the middle of the First World War. What did your parents do for a living, then?

Edward Heath4:52

Well, my father was a carpenter and uh then later on in the thirties he became uh manager of the building firm. It was quite a small one. And then finally when the owner died he took over the firm and he worked very, very hard at it.

Edward Heath5:07

We were very close families, and he was keen, my mother was as well, that both my brother and I should become musicians, and I concentrated on the piano, and my brother on the violin.

Edward Heath5:18

The first piano we had was an upright piano. I remember so well going off to Margate in order to see these pianos. And um

Edward Heath5:27

They were very good because they were hard pressed and we finally bought this piano for forty eight monthly instalments.

Presenter5:33

Did your mother work as well?

Presenter5:35

What did you do?

Edward Heath5:36

Before she married my father she was uh a lady's maid, and then when they were married they used to let the rooms in our house during the summer for visitors and uh well, it was a boarding house really on a very small scale.

Presenter5:48

What about politics in the household? Was that much discussed or not?

Edward Heath5:52

It wasn't really, no. When I was at school I did take a large part in politics, really. We had a very good debating society.

Presenter5:59

You won a scholarship to the Grammar School, didn't you?

Edward Heath6:02

Yes. I was at a church school to begin with in our village. And uh I became a chorister there.

Edward Heath6:08

Then I got a scholarship over to the grammar school at Ramsgate Chatham House.

Presenter6:11

And then you got a scholarship to Oxford.

Edward Heath6:13

Yes, and I went up to Oxford with uh August Color Baylor.

Presenter6:18

Let's pause there for record number two.

Edward Heath6:20

But I would like to play um Schubert's piano trio.

Edward Heath6:24

Because uh at Oxford I did get to know a vast range of chamber music, but I think the shoe bat is my real favorite, and uh it has another connection with it.

Edward Heath6:35

Because I entertained Sir William Walton on his seventieth birthday at Ten Downing Street when I was Prime Minister. And I remember an interview he gave when it was his sixtieth birthday, and he was asked at the end by the BBC interviewer, Sir William, if there was one single word

Edward Heath6:51

which you could have written yourself, what would it have been? And without pausing a moment he said the Schubert B flat trio. And so after an evening in which a large number of his own works were played, we had the trio which played Schubert's B flat trio.

Presenter8:02

Part of Schubert's B flat major piano trio played by Alfred Corteau, Jacques Thibault, and Pablo Casals.

Presenter8:10

You say, mister Heath, that your mother and father wanted you and your brother to be professional musicians, but there was also talk of your going into the church, wasn't there?

Edward Heath8:18

Yes, uh I think my mother was rather keen that I should go into the church. At one time I thought quite seriously about it. But uh my father really wanted me to be an accountant.

Edward Heath8:28

And uh I didn't want that, I protested against that.

Edward Heath8:32

My father died at the age of eighty eight.

Edward Heath8:34

And just before he died he said, Well, you became Prime Minister, but I still wish you'd taken up a respectable occupation.

Presenter8:42

I wonder I know your mother died long before you became Prime Minister.

Edward Heath8:45

Yeah.

Presenter8:47

I wonder what she would have thought of her son becoming Prime Minister.

Edward Heath8:50

Well, I think she would have been very proud. She was very proud when I became a Member of Parliament in nineteen fifty uh alas, in nineteen fifty one.

Edward Heath8:58

She died during the election campaign.

Edward Heath9:01

And I think it was a mark of the civilised politics we've always had in Bexley that on the day of the funeral I said that I would of course go to the funeral, I would not be present, and all the other candidates said they wouldn't carry on any political activities on that day either.

Edward Heath9:16

But I was very moved by then.

Presenter9:19

You won a scholarship, as we said, to Oxford. Did you find yourself up at Balliol? Were you a kind of ordinary working class lad amongst the best that the public schools had to offer?

Edward Heath9:31

Yes. The great advantage of Bale is that it has such enormous variety. I have always felt grateful for the fact that having come from really a very small village by the seaside and a grammar school, I was then able to go to a college which, although it was only two hundred and eighty strong, had such an enormous variety of members.

Presenter9:50

You didn't feel under any pressure to change your accent or your habits or your manners?

Edward Heath9:56

None of these, no.

Edward Heath9:59

Mind you, I hope that they were all right when I got there.

Presenter10:02

Did you make any lasting friendships there?

Edward Heath10:05

Yes, a very considerable number, and uh we still meet to day.

Edward Heath10:10

Some of them were in politics. In fact, I suppose we were rather a political group, really, but

Edward Heath10:16

You see, I went up there in 1935. It was the time when the young were becoming very political because of the rise of dictatorships in Europe.

Edward Heath10:24

Hitler and Mussolini.

Presenter10:26

Is that period in your life when you really began to feel you wanted to go into politics?

Edward Heath10:32

Yes, the Union at that time was uh politically very, very active, and uh the first great debate I heard on the Union, Sir John Simon wound up.

Edward Heath10:42

And I shall never forget that he got up and came to the box and he took each of the points which had been made and dealt with them and then summed it all up and he didn't have a single note. I've never been so impressed in my life and I said, Well, one day I must try and do that.

Presenter10:57

And did you also think then one day I would really rather like to be Prime Minister?

Edward Heath11:02

No, I never thought in those terms, really.

Edward Heath11:04

I hoped I was going to be able to go into politics.

Edward Heath11:08

Directly after the war it didn't look possible, so I sat the Civil Service examination.

Edward Heath11:12

I came out top of that with another bailman. And so later on I could always say to a permanent secretary, Now, look, if I'd wanted to, I could have been in your place, but I didn't.

Edward Heath11:21

And uh then I left the civil service.

Presenter11:24

So we paused for the third record.

Edward Heath11:27

Yes, the third record I'd like is part of Richard Strato Rosen Cavalier.

Edward Heath11:32

Very romantic and uh I adore it.

Edward Heath11:37

I remember I think it was probably the first performance given at Lynbourne.

Edward Heath11:40

After the first act.

Edward Heath11:42

I walked outside and there walked in Sir Thomas Armstrong, very great musician, who had

Edward Heath11:49

Been responsible for me in a way at Oxford. And I went up to him almost in a daze and said, It's wonderful, isn't it?

Edward Heath11:58

And Sir Thomas said, Well,

Edward Heath12:00

It's a young man's opera.

Edward Heath12:03

And I said, Sir Thomas, with the greatest respect, it's an opera for all those who don't grow old.

Speaker 212:22

It's all right.

Presenter13:11

The trio from the final act of Richard Strauss is De Rosencavelier, sung by Elizabeth Schwarzkopf, Krista Ludwig, and Theresa Stich Randall, with the Vienna Philharmonic conducted by Herbert von Carrion.

Presenter13:24

Shall we talk about sailing? You didn't take it up until you were nearly fifty. Why was there a 49?

Edward Heath13:28

Forty nine there.

Edward Heath13:30

Well, I played golf, but uh when I became leader of the Conservative Party, then I found that I

Speaker 213:35

Then I

Edward Heath13:37

drove off, probably not very well. And then the questions would come, what is Mr Wilson going to do this week? What is the government going to do about this, that and the other? And I got so tired of this.

Presenter13:48

Well, as you strode down the fairway.

Edward Heath13:50

Yes, so, I said, away with it all, give it up.

Edward Heath13:54

which I did, and then I was strolling along the pier at Broadstairs one Saturday afternoon.

Edward Heath14:01

And uh a fellow stepped out of a sort of cubicle there and said, Can I interest you in sailing?

Edward Heath14:07

You're here, and I've got my boat here, and I'll teach you how to sail.

Edward Heath14:11

That's all right. Well, let's sail. That was how I started.

Edward Heath14:14

He he was in fact a very good instructor and then we started racing very quickly. We had a few uh accidents.

Edward Heath14:21

On one occasion we came into harbour and went slap into the harbour, where we didn't move the pier, but we'd entered the boat, and of course you had a whole ray of

Edward Heath14:29

observers, people on holiday along the top leaning over, trying to see what was happening to you as they saw you shooting in we couldn't get round again in time.

Presenter14:37

But you nevertheless rose to the giddy heights of winning the uh the Sydney to Hobart race. When was that It's about twenty years ago now?

Edward Heath14:44

That was nineteen sixty nine, yes. It was really a remarkable event.

Edward Heath14:50

And uh what led to it was I did a tour of Australia in 1968.

Edward Heath14:55

as leader of the party. And uh I found the Australians were very cynical about the productions they uh long haired, layabouts, drug addicts and palms on all the rest of it. So I got very tired of this. I came back to my

Edward Heath15:09

crew and uh

Edward Heath15:11

We won a very good race and I said, What do we know next? and they said, Well, don't you want to go to Australia to deal with these people? So I said, All right, well, let's go to Australia.

Edward Heath15:21

That uh it's a tremendous race.

Presenter15:23

Very good on board, but not very good below, not very good in the galley, I gather.

Edward Heath15:27

I'm afraid not. No. You see, we didn't have a cook on board, so to speak. Every member of the crew was a cook, and did his share of the cooking.

Edward Heath15:37

There was one glorious morning when we were winning.

Edward Heath15:40

And uh round about six o'clock the sun was coming up, it was warm, the sea was calm, and I was feeling so.

Edward Heath15:47

Satisfied with events, I said, Look, I'll go and cook the breakfast. They looked rather surprised and said, Yes. So I went down and

Edward Heath15:54

managed to get the stove on and then the frying pan, then I put a lot of

Edward Heath15:58

fat round the frying pan, and then I got the slices of bread, which were of course already cut, and I put those all over the frying pan. And uh then I cracked some eggs, which it was safe to eat in those days, and uh put them on top of the bread and uh put some bacon round the edge, and then sat back and waited.

Edward Heath16:16

And picked up a book and then waited, and nothing happened. After half an hour,

Edward Heath16:21

One of the crew came down and said, You are getting breakfast, are you? Because we are getting a bit hungry and I said, Yes, it's all in the pan and then they shut their eyes and pulled out their hair and said, How can you ever expect to fry eggs when you put it on top of a load of bread like that? We better deal with it. So after that I was never allowed to try again.

Presenter16:38

Shall we have your fourth record?

Edward Heath16:40

This m may seem a little strange, but I'd like uh part of Fiddler on the Roof.

Edward Heath16:46

It always seemed to me to convey

Edward Heath16:49

The sadness of people who

Edward Heath16:52

aren't in their own homes and

Edward Heath16:54

find very little possibility of ever getting to what they really regard as home, but constantly moved on from place to place.

Edward Heath17:02

And in our world today there are still so many people.

Speaker 217:02

Yeah.

Edward Heath17:05

who suffer like that.

Edward Heath17:07

But uh the thing I like is uh if I were a rich man, because I think on a desert island I could sit there and just contemplate

Edward Heath17:14

what I would do if I were a rich man, knowing I'm never going to be worried by that problem.

Edward Heath17:20

If I were a rich man.

Edward Heath17:27

All day long I biddy biddy bump

Edward Heath17:31

If I were a wealthy man

Edward Heath17:34

I wouldn't have to work hard.

Edward Heath17:37

Yeah, but

Edward Heath17:42

If I were a pity, pity rich, idle, little, idled, idle man.

Presenter17:50

If I Were a Rich Man sung by Toppol from Fiddler on the Roof.

Presenter17:55

Now, it was in nineteen fifty that you stood as MP for Bexley, and um you've gone on winning it ever since. That's what, thirty eight years now? Boy and man.

Edward Heath18:04

Yes, it'll be thirty nine years on february twenty third next.

Presenter18:07

And are you standing in the next election?

Edward Heath18:09

Oh, yes, yes.

Presenter18:10

No desire to go to the Lords.

Edward Heath18:12

No, not at all.

Presenter18:14

Never?

Edward Heath18:15

I don't think so, no.

Presenter18:16

Why not?

Edward Heath18:17

Could I enjoy the commons?

Presenter18:18

Now, I know you get rather annoyed with the suggestions, which are pretty constant, that um that you've spent the last thirteen years sulking in your tent, as it were, because Mrs Thatcher um replaced you as as as leader. How do you cope with those kinds of criticisms? Because they do go on and on coming, don't they?

Edward Heath18:36

There's nothing you can do about them. Perhaps one day people will start to deal with the arguments instead of uh merely repeating these. Uh

Edward Heath18:44

phrases. Of course what it does reveal is that they can't cope with the arguments.

Edward Heath18:48

So their only escape is uh is abuse.

Presenter18:52

I suppose people think that there may be some truth in it, in the fact that she, Mrs. Thatcher, is now perhaps.

Presenter19:00

Being credited with the things, the kinds of policies that you were trying to sell at the time, that is to say, the enterprise economy, the taming of the unions.

Edward Heath19:09

Yes, but there are very fundamental differences in the policy, particularly on the side of the social services.

Edward Heath19:15

Where our policies were quite different. And I think a great deal of hardship is being caused today.

Edward Heath19:21

particularly affecting young people, but these are things one can discuss perfectly rationally.

Presenter19:27

But you must resent being labelled time and again embittered or resentful.

Edward Heath19:32

Oh, I've got past that stage now. It was annoying to begin with.

Presenter19:36

What about misses Thatcher herself? I mean, she's never really extended the hand of friendship, has she?

Edward Heath19:41

Well, that's entirely a matter of heart.

Edward Heath19:44

She's it's up to her to decide uh what she's gonna do and how she behaves.

Presenter19:48

But if the call came to morrow, and the offer was there of an important job in the Cabinet, an important one, would you say yes?

Edward Heath19:56

Yes, uh but uh it certainly won't come. But it's not a it's not a matter under discussion.

Presenter20:05

We shall cease to discuss it and have your fifth record.

Edward Heath20:08

Yes, now perhaps this is uh thought to be rather egocentric, I don't know.

Edward Heath20:14

But uh I'd like to put on uh part of Ergos Cockane overture.

Edward Heath20:20

In the performance which I conducted myself at the London Symphony Orchestra at a gala concert in London while I was Prime Minister,

Edward Heath20:27

Elgar has made such a contribution to British music, putting us back on the map after Mendelssohn described us as just landowner music, the country without music, that we really must have Elgar on the desert island.

Presenter21:40

The End of Elgar's Cocaine Overture played by the London Symphony Orchestra at the LSO's Gala concert in nineteen seventy one, conducted by the then Prime Minister, Edward Heath.

Presenter21:51

When you were Prime Minister, mister Heath, you had an ideal, as I'm sure all Prime Ministers do, of the sort of world you wanted to live in, you wanted us to live in. How do we fall short of that to day?

Edward Heath22:05

Of course I wanted us to be part of the European community, and we managed to bring that about.

Edward Heath22:10

And I wanted to bring about a better standard of living for the people of our own country and better relationships between all the different groups in our country after all. As I said, when I was at Oxford, we had no class snobbishness. We were all different, but we all had the same aims and objectives and the same values. And that's what I think one needs in a country.

Presenter22:31

But the better standards of living and the values we we have those we've achieved those, haven't we?

Edward Heath22:37

Well, we achieved them in my time as Prime Minister, and it's only now that we've just got back to the same production as we had when I ceased to be Prime Minister in nineteen seventy four. So we've had, what, nearly fifteen years in between. And I think we could have done so much more since. But now

Edward Heath22:55

We've still got two million one hundred thousand unemployed.

Presenter23:00

You've said quite recently, I think, that or you've said things like it before in the past anyway, that Thatcherism

Presenter23:06

is an aberration in the history of the Conservative Party. What do you mean by that?

Edward Heath23:10

Well, you see, uh those concerned always describe themselves as uh radical.

Edward Heath23:17

Some even say revolutionary. But this isn't the language of Conservatism and of Toryism.

Edward Heath23:23

Because Toryism has always believed in development. Radicalism is something for liberals who are prepared to overturn everything in their way, whereas we've always believed in keeping as much as possible of what we value and developing the rest so that we improve it.

Presenter23:40

But to say that Thatcherism

Presenter23:42

Is an aberration, is to imply that the Tory party will come back around. It will be seen eventually as a blip.

Presenter23:50

In the history of the party.

Edward Heath23:51

Toriism will come back to its rightful philosophy, I've got no doubt about that at all.

Presenter23:56

Will there be your kind of Tory around in a few years to come who will be there, who embody what you believe to bring about this return?

Edward Heath24:00

No, we'll be

Edward Heath24:03

And there are a lot of them in the country at the moment who are just silent. And they say, well, we can't support this sort of thing, so we opt out.

Edward Heath24:12

There's the people who opt out.

Edward Heath24:15

that uh we shall have to get back.

Presenter24:17

You talk about some politicians of your philosophy and persuasion opting out.

Presenter24:23

Others remaining silent. Others, of course, have, in your terms, gone over, haven't they, to thatirism?

Edward Heath24:30

Well, I doubt whether they have.

Edward Heath24:32

One dozed from talking to the

Edward Heath24:34

what their real views are.

Edward Heath24:35

and having had the opportunity of going along with it, they do.

Presenter24:39

Going along with it in order to hold office, do you mean?

Edward Heath24:42

Yes, and it isn't only selfish. They feel they have got a job they can do.

Edward Heath24:47

And uh

Edward Heath24:49

Again, that's valuable.

Presenter24:51

Your sixth record, please.

Edward Heath24:53

Well now I'd like

Edward Heath24:55

Part of Fidelio, Beethoven's opera. Of all the operas, the Fidelio is the greatest.

Edward Heath25:01

Uh what I would like is the prisoners' chorus.

Edward Heath25:05

which is at the end of the first act, and is extolling the virtues of freedom. And this is really what I've always stood for in my political life. Nobody expressed this greater than Beethoven did.

Edward Heath25:18

In this wonderful chorus.

Presenter26:17

The Prisoner's Chorus from Beethoven's Fidelio, sung by the Chicago Symphony Chorus and orchestra conducted by Sir George Schulte.

Presenter26:25

Your memoirs have been promised, mister Heath, some would say threatened, for a long time now. Are they nearing completion?

Edward Heath26:32

Well, we've done a lot of work on them, there's still quite a lot to be done.

Presenter26:36

Do you feel, when you write them, that you have missed the opportunity to give as much to the country as you might have done in the past thirteen years? That you've been.

Presenter26:45

Wasted for us and for yourself in many ways.

Edward Heath26:48

As far as all the uh opportunities I've had are concerned, then I think I have uh uh taken great advantage of them.

Edward Heath26:56

Uh as far as the last years are concerned, then obviously I would like to have had the opportunity of doing more as far as government was concerned.

Edward Heath27:05

Instead of that, I've been involved in a large number of other activities, one of the main ones of which of course was the Brandt Commission dealing with the developing countries and the developed countries.

Edward Heath27:15

and followed that up with a large number of visits to developing countries.

Edward Heath27:20

and in some ways I've been able to help them individually in their problems.

Presenter27:25

And would you now, as you sit in your house in um Salisbury Cathedral close, would you describe yourself as a happy man?

Edward Heath27:33

Well, I think in in one's life one has always had a combination of happiness and unhappiness.

Edward Heath27:38

happiness when you are able to achieve something, frustration when you can't.

Presenter27:43

But is there a fundamental contentment there?

Edward Heath27:46

Yes, I think as far as that is concerned, because I adhere to the

Edward Heath27:51

values which I think are important.

Presenter27:53

Do you mean your political values when you say that?

Edward Heath27:55

Yes, and I think general philosophic values as to how people should behave towards each other and uh the things they should take into account.

Edward Heath28:03

Some are more fortunate than others in life.

Edward Heath28:06

And I deeply regret this attitude that we're all the same.

Edward Heath28:10

that we're all entrepreneurial, some aren't entrepreneurial, and they don't want that sort of life. Well, that ought to be taken into account. But I still th think a great deal about the future. I'm not living in the past.

Presenter28:23

Your seventh record, please.

Edward Heath28:25

Well, now I'd like to play part of Vorjak's New World Symphony. I conducted it in Beijing.

Edward Heath28:33

at a gala concert of the Eastern before last.

Edward Heath28:36

with the Central Philharmonic Orchestra of China, which is their main orchestra.

Edward Heath28:40

I was asked to do a gala concert in aid of the disabled people of China.

Edward Heath28:45

It really was a very thrilling occasion.

Edward Heath28:47

And in the audience, for the first time, a concert in the Great Hall of the Peoples, were eight thousand people, all the hierarchy and the diplomatic law and people. On television it was watched by four hundred million people, and it went out on radio as well.

Edward Heath29:02

We raised altogether one and a quarter million dollars from one concert.

Edward Heath29:07

And that really was very satisfying.

Edward Heath29:09

And when I chose the programme, I chose the algae cock, which we've already heard, because I wanted something British, and then Tchaikovsky's Recocker variations, because I thought Tchaikovsky was one of the rather nicer Russians and the Chinese wouldn't mind.

Edward Heath29:22

And it was European.

Edward Heath29:24

And then for the last part, I said we will have Forjack's New World Symphony.

Edward Heath29:28

And they said, Why is that? And I said, Well,

Edward Heath29:32

You may think that we haven't altogether made a success of the old world.

Edward Heath29:36

But now you and the Pacific are the new world, and it's up to you to make a rather better job of it than we've done.

Presenter30:43

The slow movement of Vorjak's New World Symphony played by the Chicago Symphony Orchestra conducted by Sir George Schulte.

Presenter30:52

Let's leave politics, mister Heath, and and talk about homes and gardens, of which you have very beautiful examples of each. Can you describe where you live?

Edward Heath31:01

Well, it's the first time I've had a home, in the real sense.

Edward Heath31:04

And uh three years ago.

Edward Heath31:07

I moved into a home in the close at Salisbury, just by the west door of Salisbury Cathedral.

Edward Heath31:15

It really is heavenly. There's no other phrase about it. It's uh so peaceful and quiet. You wouldn't know we were in a town, you're alone in a great city.

Edward Heath31:25

Uh at the bottom of the garden I have two rivers joining, and then flowing on is the river Avon.

Edward Heath31:31

So it's really very agreeable.

Presenter31:33

And the garden is one of your great joys, isn't it? What have you done to it?

Edward Heath31:37

Well, it was rather in a dilapidated state when I moved in, because the previous occupant had uh had died at the age of ninety three.

Edward Heath31:45

and she had uh obviously not done anything to him for fifteen years.

Edward Heath31:50

The previous uh canon had died at the age of ninety eight. Uh so in some ways it's encouraging, you know. But I had to uh redo the lawn and uh

Edward Heath32:02

put in a greenhouse and started to grow orchids.

Edward Heath32:06

Uh so it's uh very interesting.

Presenter32:09

And what do you eat from it?

Edward Heath32:11

Well, we eat all the vegetables. I know there are some people who say it's very extravagant to grow your own vegetables.

Edward Heath32:18

I don't think so. I think it's all the fun.

Edward Heath32:20

Especially when you're entertained to say all of this came from our garden.

Presenter32:24

So will you be entertaining at Christmas there?

Edward Heath32:27

Yes, I can't bear to leave home at uh Christmas.

Edward Heath32:31

I like to be at home at Christmas and uh to have friends staying with me.

Presenter32:36

So will it be a full-scale traditional Christmas?

Edward Heath32:40

Yes, we shall have Christmas trees, we shall have uh all the things, and some of my godchildren will be there.

Presenter32:45

Let's have your last record.

Edward Heath32:47

This is taken from a record which I did.

Edward Heath32:50

little while back, which was entirely Christmas music. It's this glorious carol which Mendelsohn wrote.

Edward Heath32:56

And here it has a descant in the last verse, Hark the herald angels sing.

Speaker 233:31

For man's man who

Presenter34:05

Park the Herald Angels Sing, sung by the Geoffrey Mitchell Choir, with the English Chamber Orchestra conducted by Edward Heath.

Presenter34:14

So now those awful decisions have to be made. First of all, which of the eight records would you choose above all the others?

Edward Heath34:22

Well, it is difficult, isn't it? Terribly difficult.

Edward Heath34:26

I think I would take Beethoven's Fidelia.

Edward Heath34:30

I think that would give me greatest satisfaction for the longest possible time.

Presenter34:35

Then you have to choose a book, and as you know, you have the Bible and you have the complete works of Shakespeare.

Edward Heath34:42

Well now, could I have the uh

Edward Heath34:45

complete bound volumes of Hensard from the time they started in the eighteenth century up to today.

Presenter34:51

Oh no.

Edward Heath34:52

Man, what?

Edward Heath34:53

Yeah.

Presenter34:53

No no more collected works.

Edward Heath34:55

I can't get myself up to date with Parliament. Well, then I think I would like just one volume, comprehensive volume.

Edward Heath35:05

of the works of the Impressionist painters.

Edward Heath35:08

Then I could sit on my desert island and study them one by one.

Presenter35:14

And your luxury. What what can we give you? It must be inanimate, and it mustn't be of any practical use at all.

Edward Heath35:19

No practical use. I was going to say a fishing tackle.

Presenter35:22

Oh man.

Edward Heath35:23

Of course that I'd enjoy. Then I think what I would say is some tan lotion.

Edward Heath35:28

Is that all right for Luxrate?

Presenter35:29

I suppose it's practical, but you can have it. You can have it as it's Christmas. And can I say, Edward Heath, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island discs. And thank you for being my final castaway of nineteen eighty eight. And Merry Christmas.

Edward Heath35:44

Thank you, and the same to you, and to all the listeners.

Speaker 335:55

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.