Bob Champion

Speaker 20:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 20:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen eighty eight, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:32

My castaway this week is a man whose triumph over illness has been an inspiration to thousands. Eight years ago he was told he was suffering from cancer. Without treatment, itself debilitating and distressing, he could die.

Presenter0:46

Not only did he fight his way back to health, but back to a peak of fitness which enabled him to carry off the greatest prize in his field, because he was the jockey who in nineteen eighty one won the Grand National on Aldonetti. His name is Bob Champion.

Presenter1:01

And, Bob, you've recently become a father for the second time, which is something else the doctor said you'd never do.

Bob Champion1:07

Yes, I'm very pleased about it. My wife had a daughter, Henriette.

Presenter1:11

How old is she now?

Bob Champion1:12

She is about two and a half weeks.

Presenter1:14

And um your first so called miracle child was Michael. He's five now, isn't he?

Bob Champion1:19

Yes, he's just five.

Presenter1:21

Is he is he likely to be a jockey, following Dad's footsteps, or seat, do you think?

Bob Champion1:25

I'm afraid not. I think he's going to be too big, actually. He's quite heavy for his age.

Bob Champion1:30

But

Presenter1:30

Presumably, with two lovely children and a whole life to lead, the idea of being cast away on our desert island is dreadful.

Bob Champion1:38

It is to me, because I hate my own company. I think I'd be trying to get off as quick as I could.

Presenter1:44

How might you do that, do you think?

Bob Champion1:46

I don't know. We'll have to get on this desert island and see what it's going to be like and if there's any trees to make a raft.

Presenter1:51

But you like the sun?

Bob Champion1:52

I love the sun, I can sit out in the sun for a certain time, but I get a little bit bored.

Presenter1:57

Well, you've got eight records, and a and a book three books, lots of books, and a luxury, to make it all worth your while. But um music will be important to you, will it?

Bob Champion2:06

Yes, I love music. Um I spend a lot of time in the car and I've always got the radio on or cassettes on, so I do listen to a lot of it.

Presenter2:13

So what's your first record?

Bob Champion2:15

My first record is With or Without You by UTO. I bought this record because I liked it when I first met my wife and I bought it for her. Through the storm.

Speaker 32:25

Sure, you give it all, but I want more and I'm waiting.

Speaker 32:34

It's for you.

Speaker 32:38

We thought without you

Speaker 32:42

Who the we find to our heart?

Speaker 32:47

Can't be

Presenter2:53

With or without you by you two. Well, now, Bob Champion, tell me about that day in the spring of nineteen eighty one when you and Aldoniti won the Grand National. Do you remember it clearly?

Bob Champion3:05

Yeah, it was sunny, um, which I always thought I rode better in the sun. It was a race that I always thought I'd win.

Bob Champion3:13

For about two years before. Um when I was in hospital I um used it as a goal to get back to riding.

Bob Champion3:22

But I said to Josh Gifford, my trainer, oh, about two or three years before the National, that um he was the type of horse that would win a national.

Presenter3:30

And did you know that very morning in nineteen eighty one that that race was going to be yours that day?

Bob Champion3:36

Yeah, I went there and I

Bob Champion3:39

Didn't think I could get beat. You know, it's a funny eerie

Bob Champion3:43

feeling, you know, there's only about three races

Bob Champion3:46

In my whole career I won quite a few.

Bob Champion3:49

That I thought was absolute moral certainty. And you're talking about the Grand National, you know, everything has to go your way, and it just did.

Presenter3:57

But the horse, Aldoniti, I mean, he'd been ill too, hadn't he?

Bob Champion4:01

Yeah, he'd been plagued with a lot of injuries throughout his career. It was only his about fifteenth or sixteenth run in his whole life.

Bob Champion4:09

Um but he was an ultra-genuine horse. He'd give you a hundred and fifty percent effort and he'd jump jump well and

Bob Champion4:17

Thankfully he did the job.

Presenter4:19

It must be the most marvellous feeling in the world going over those vast jumps, one after the other and on and round.

Bob Champion4:26

It is. Um people don't really understand, but

Bob Champion4:30

When you're out there.

Bob Champion4:32

You've got a lot of time to think. You know, the National's four and a half miles when you're used to riding in two mile herder races which are a lot quicker.

Bob Champion4:39

So you can have a chat to your mates going round for about the first circuit, then after that you're starting thinking about doing your job.

Presenter4:46

Well what are you chatting about?

Bob Champion4:47

Oh, any load of rubbish. Like what? What were you doing last night? Anything, just to.

Presenter4:49

Like what?

Presenter4:53

In the Grand National.

Bob Champion4:54

Yeah, take your mind off it.

Presenter4:56

So when does the the feeling really seize you? I mean is it towards the last half dozen fences or what?

Bob Champion5:02

Well, when you're going out on the second circuit, you've got to be really thinking where is all my dangers now and where should I be?

Bob Champion5:09

Will I stay the trip or do I have to hold him up a little bit longer or?

Bob Champion5:13

Make plenty of use of his stamina.

Presenter5:15

And then you go for the last fence, and you know it's yours.

Bob Champion5:19

Um, you don't know it's yours until you go by that lollipop stick. It's an awful long run from the last, and a lot of nationals have been won and lost from the last. You know, I can always remember Chris.

Bob Champion5:30

Going to the last you could never see him getting beat, but Red Rummond came and did him on the line.

Bob Champion5:35

It must have been heartbreaking for Richard Pittman.

Presenter5:37

So at what point did you know the race was yours?

Bob Champion5:40

about five yards from the post. I always thought I was beating Royal Mail, not Spartan missile, because I lost where he was going down to beaches the first time, so I was worried about him all through the race, but I thought he must have fallen.

Bob Champion5:55

So I was always felt I was beating Royal Mail.

Presenter5:58

So then you went past the lollipop and it was yours.

Bob Champion6:00

Yes.

Presenter6:01

Is there a feeling to beat it in the world, do you think, winning the national?

Bob Champion6:04

No, I don't think there is. But you don't get enough time to think about it, because um soon as you've pulled up you've got about four great big policemen.

Bob Champion6:13

surrounding you on horses and um your life isn't your own for

Bob Champion6:18

a couple of hours. Um by the time you get back to the winning enclosure you get off.

Bob Champion6:24

going way in and then you've got to come out and do a television interview and a press conference and I was riding an hour and a half later so I didn't really get time to think about it until I was on the motorway going home.

Presenter6:36

Your second record, please.

Bob Champion6:38

Well, when I was um about fifteen or sixteen,

Bob Champion6:42

I was after this girl, she was about eighteen, and she wouldn't have anything to do with me, so I thought about this record it was going around then. If I was a carpenter by the four tops.

Speaker 36:53

I work carpenter.

Speaker 36:57

You were lady

Speaker 37:00

How much?

Speaker 37:05

Have my baby.

Speaker 37:10

If I take all the takers free

Speaker 37:14

You still fire?

Presenter7:17

If I Were a Carpenter by the Four Tops. Bob, did you have your eye on winning the National from an early age?

Bob Champion7:25

Yes, very early age.

Bob Champion7:27

When I was about nine, eight or nine, um, I always used to go to the cinema to see the Grand National on the Pathé News before it was ever on television. And I used to sit there and think, Well, one day I'd love to ride in that race, never mind winning it, and I suppose it's always been an ambition.

Presenter7:44

So were you a a horsey boy? I mean, did you come from a horsey family?

Bob Champion7:47

Yes, I did. Um my family was was always connected with um hunting. My father was a huntsman.

Bob Champion7:53

So there was always always horses around.

Presenter7:56

This was on T's side.

Bob Champion7:57

Yep, in the Cleveland country, by red car.

Presenter8:00

So did you I mean, did you have your own pony and all that?

Bob Champion8:03

Yeah. My sister and I had our own ponies, but um

Bob Champion8:08

I think they tried rushing me into riding too early, um, when I was about three or four.

Bob Champion8:13

They had me in the paddock and had me trying to jump a ladder. I can always remember it, and I fell off in a lot of nettles, and I wouldn't have anything to do with riding for about four or five years after.

Presenter8:24

But did they want you to ride for pleasure, or did they want you to be a jockey?

Bob Champion8:27

Pleasure. The jockey bit was me. I think if you try forcing somebody to be a jockey, they'll rebel and go against you, especially boys.

Presenter8:35

So you went to all the local Jim Carners and carried off all the trophies, did you?

Bob Champion8:39

I did a lot of gym carnering and um cross country. I used to like the cross country better than um the gym carners and I did quite well show jumping, but I got a little bit bored with it. But the hunter trials appealed to me more than anything.

Presenter8:54

And and the boys at school called you champion the Wonder Horse.

Bob Champion8:57

Yes, they did. I used to hate it.

Bob Champion9:00

The worst television programme it's ever been on.

Presenter9:03

Did they sing it every time you came along?

Bob Champion9:04

You seem to. You know, I suppose when you're small it really does upset you, it doesn't worry me any more.

Presenter9:09

Were you one of those children who preferred horses to people in many ways?

Bob Champion9:14

I think I did. Um, always lived miles out in the country, so I suppose I spent a lot of time as a child on my own.

Bob Champion9:22

in the country and walking around looking at birds and animals.

Presenter9:26

Because you're really quite a shy person at heart.

Bob Champion9:29

Yeah, um I think I get it from my mother.

Presenter9:33

So quite naturally um y you became a a stable lad. Were you the right height and weight and all of the things that you say Michael isn't?

Bob Champion9:41

No, not really. I think he gets his weight from me. Um I had to struggle with my weight from day one.

Bob Champion9:46

When I went to Toby Boardings, my first rides.

Bob Champion9:49

I was supposed to be do nine seven, well I've only done nine seven once in my life and I was struggling from day one.

Presenter9:56

What are you now?

Bob Champion9:57

I'd be about twelve, seven.

Presenter9:58

Middy?

Bob Champion10:00

I'm trying to lose a stone.

Presenter10:02

Can you remember your first race?

Bob Champion10:05

Um, yes, I rode as an amateur for a little bit and studied point-to-point and I went to Lark Hill when I was fifteen.

Bob Champion10:12

We're riding one of my uncle's point pointers and um

Bob Champion10:16

It looked I looked like winning going to the last and my horse fell, a horse called home court, and um when I picked myself up

Bob Champion10:24

I sat up and I thought, This isn't the game for me, this hurts But um luckily I didn't pack up. But it is worrying, you know, first time you hit the ground it does hurt.

Presenter10:34

Yes. Why have you always gone over the sticks? You've not gone for flat racing at all?

Bob Champion10:39

Well, I've always been too heavy. Um

Bob Champion10:42

If I'd had a choice and I was about eight stone I'd definitely would have gone on the flat. I'd have been too light to go jumping anyway, but um there's a lot more money on the flat.

Presenter10:50

More money. More thrill.

Bob Champion10:52

No, I don't think they'd have half the thrill the jump jockeys have, but you can last as a jockey a lot longer, as a flat jockey you can ride into your fifties.

Presenter11:00

Let's have your third record.

Bob Champion11:02

Well, my third record I think is the greatest record that's ever been made.

Bob Champion11:06

Is Bridge Over Treble Water by Simon Garfunkel?

Speaker 311:10

Sail on, silver girl.

Speaker 311:16

Say alone.

Speaker 311:20

Your time has come.

Speaker 311:25

Too shy.

Speaker 311:28

All your dreams are on their way.

Speaker 311:35

See how they stand.

Presenter11:40

Bridge Over Troubled Water by Simon Garfunkel.

Presenter11:43

So then, Bob Champion, you went freelance, as it were. You started riding for other people, for many different trainers.

Bob Champion11:50

Yes, I did. Um I'd spent four years with Toby Balding. I'd ridden about fifty winners and I thought it was time to branch out.

Presenter11:57

So you'd made it, really? I mean there are many stable lads who don't, aren't there?

Bob Champion12:01

Oh yes, there's only a very small percentage of stabilized make jockeys. I think

Bob Champion12:06

You've got to have natural ability. You've got to be.

Bob Champion12:10

Very, very determined. You've got to be really professional about the job.

Bob Champion12:14

But I don't think you've got any chance if you haven't got the natural ability.

Presenter12:17

Now you say you have a chat on the way round in these races. What about dirty business? Is there a lot of that g I mean, do you sort of nudge each other, push each other?

Bob Champion12:26

Well, the Stewards are very strict now with the patrol films, but um

Bob Champion12:30

Basically, if you can box somebody in, you're not hurting them or anything, you're riding a race. So if you

Bob Champion12:37

can stop them having a good run, you're going to do it. Well, a good jockey is, anyway, because you're out there to win races for your owners.

Presenter12:44

But there are those jockeys who would stoop to less honourable things than boxing in, aren't there? Who would actually give you a nudge.

Bob Champion12:52

No, there isn't actually. Um I suppose they might have done years and years ago, but

Bob Champion12:57

The patrol films are so good now that there's no way they'd get away from it.

Presenter13:01

Your fourth record.

Bob Champion13:03

Well my fourth record is um seen as that I'm on this desert island and most likely be there for Christmas is Happy Christmas by John Lennon.

Speaker 313:12

So this is Christmas.

Speaker 313:16

What have you done?

Speaker 313:21

Another year over

Speaker 313:26

You won't just become.

Speaker 313:31

And so this is Christmas.

Presenter13:41

Uh

Presenter13:42

John Lennon's Happy Christmas!

Presenter13:45

It was when you were thirty one, Bob, that you went to America to a racing stables, and you became concerned because you were putting on weight and you couldn't get rid of it. Tell me what happened.

Bob Champion13:55

Well, I'd had a cake at Stratford before I'd left to go to America, um, on a horse called Fury Boy. He fell at the last, and um

Bob Champion14:05

I was a long way in front, and I got up to catch him, and he kicked me where he shouldn't have kicked me, and um I jumped on and won went and won the race, and I went to America the next day, virtually.

Bob Champion14:17

And everything began to be numb for

Bob Champion14:21

Two or three months.

Bob Champion14:23

and I started putting on weight and I found it very, very difficult to lose it.

Bob Champion14:28

And um when I was out in the States I had an American girlfriend, which was a vet and

Bob Champion14:34

She looked at me and said I ought to get back to England a little bit sharpish, which I did.

Presenter14:39

She knew she knew what you had.

Bob Champion14:41

Well, she did, but she didn't tell me, and I landed in London and rung up my doctor who used to keep patching me up to get back to the race course very quickly.

Bob Champion14:52

And I told him over the phone what was wrong, and I didn't have a clue.

Bob Champion14:56

And he said, Where are you? and I gave him my telephone number, and he said, I'll ring you back in ten minutes.

Bob Champion15:01

And I'll have an appointment for you.

Bob Champion15:04

So ten minutes later he rang back and said, Would you go to the Royal Marsden? and um it all started.

Presenter15:10

So by this time you were really worried.

Bob Champion15:12

Well, they're all Marsden rang a bell, but I couldn't really think it was a cancer hospital, and I kept walking around for about two hours before I saw the doctor.

Bob Champion15:21

The Royal Mars and sounds familiar about for something, but I couldn't really get into my brain what it was until I walked in, and then I was petrified.

Presenter15:30

Because at that stage, as far as you were concerned, you'd been kicked in the crutch by a horse and you thought you'd done yourself a bit of damage, but

Bob Champion15:37

I thought it was just a strain. But um

Bob Champion15:41

I don't think the actual kick

Bob Champion15:43

Um had anything to do with the cancer. I just think it was one of those coincidences.

Presenter15:49

So what happened next? You then were told that you had cancer.

Bob Champion15:53

Yeah. Um they were very, very quick. They operated two days later.

Bob Champion15:57

and I had two operations in about eight days.

Bob Champion16:01

And then they said I had to start chemotherapy.

Presenter16:05

Because by that stage they discovered you also had cancer elsewhere, didn't they?

Bob Champion16:08

Here I had two types, called teratoma and seminoma, in two different parts of the body.

Bob Champion16:14

Uh

Presenter16:15

The other was in the lungs.

Bob Champion16:16

Yeah, round the lungs, yeah, and the limb glands round the lungs.

Bob Champion16:20

So

Bob Champion16:21

Basically they had to start pretty quick because.

Bob Champion16:24

I suppose I'd had it for three or four months.

Bob Champion16:27

So I would have only had about eight or nine months left if I hadn't had any treatment.

Presenter16:33

It must have been a terrible shock.

Bob Champion16:34

Well it was because I felt quite fit.

Bob Champion16:37

I had no

Presenter16:37

I had no pain.

Bob Champion16:38

No pain, um, just a little bit of numbness.

Presenter16:42

Must have been difficult to believe that they were telling you the truth in some way.

Bob Champion16:45

Well, I didn't believe it. I was beginning to think it was all a dream.

Bob Champion16:48

And I didn't tell anybody. My parents I did ring my sister up after I'd had my first operation.

Bob Champion16:55

and said, You better tell my mum and dad.

Bob Champion16:57

about it, but um I kept it quiet for about the first week.

Presenter17:01

So then you had to decide whether to have this treatment, the chemotherapy, which, as I was saying earlier, is pretty distressing in itself, isn't it?

Bob Champion17:09

It is very hard. Um I think the treatment's got an awful lot better according to the doctors. They're using different drugs, but it's still not very pleasant.

Bob Champion17:17

I wasn't gonna have any treatment to begin with. I thought, well, you only read about people that die of cancer, you don't ever read about people that live and um

Bob Champion17:27

But the doctor persuaded me only by giving me odds. They gave me fifty to sixty percent chance of full recovery. I think if they'd said thirty percent, I wouldn't have gone through with it.

Presenter17:39

Hmm.

Presenter17:41

And what was it like then the experience of the chemotherapy?

Bob Champion17:45

A big shock, but I was very lucky that they told me exactly how I was going to feel. I really appreciate their honesty throughout the treatment.

Presenter17:54

What permanently sick?

Bob Champion17:55

Yeah, but I think if you tell a patient how they're going to feel and what the treatment's going to be like.

Bob Champion18:02

You go there prepared for it, but if you just say, Oh, you're just having chemotherapy and don't tell the patients about it, I think.

Bob Champion18:10

The patients believe that it's the cancer that's making them feel ill, not the

Bob Champion18:15

Treatment

Presenter18:16

So you lay in your bed in hospital, pale and thin and balding. You lost most of your hair, didn't you?

Bob Champion18:22

I lost most of my hair in just over a week, actually.

Presenter18:25

And in would come your friends saying, Well, don't worry, you'll be back in the saddle soon, and all those encouraging things that people say on these occasions. Did you believe them?

Bob Champion18:35

Um, I was always determined I was going to get better. I think it was harder for the visitors than me, myself, actually, because when you go and see someone in hospital, you just don't know what to say. And it's really hard work I find that, you know, you're trying to cheer somebody up and you're not so sure yourself when you see all the patients around you with no hair and you looking

Bob Champion18:55

Like death, you know, what do you say to people?

Presenter18:58

Did you allow in thoughts of death, or did you never

Presenter19:02

Allow yourself to think of it.

Bob Champion19:03

Um well I just didn't want to die, so I thought, well, I'm gonna have to get better. And

Bob Champion19:09

Luckily the treatment worked.

Presenter19:11

But do you think that's part of it? An awful lot of people say th that that cancer can be beaten in that way through sheer willpower, sheer bloody mindedness that says, I'm just not going to let this thing get me.

Bob Champion19:22

Being very determined about it, I think it helps you through the treatment. I'm not saying

Bob Champion19:27

That it cures you, but I think if you've got a positive attitude, it's going to help you through it and maybe will cure you.

Presenter19:33

Let's have your next record.

Bob Champion19:36

Well, my next record's the theme music from the film Champions. I suppose I'm going to have to have it. I do like the music. The film meant a lot to me and hopefully it's given a lot of people a lot of hope.

Presenter19:45

Because it was all about you and your story.

Bob Champion19:47

Yes, and had a happy ending.

Presenter20:21

The theme music from the film Champions, composed by Carl Davis.

Presenter20:25

You were played by John Hurt, Bob. What did you think of the film?

Bob Champion20:29

I am

Bob Champion20:30

I quite enjoyed it. Um it's very hard when it's about you.

Bob Champion20:34

Most people that went and saw it really enjoyed it and came out in tears. I think that's the music, though.

Presenter20:39

Well, I think I mean the whole story was a a real tearjerker. They did fudge the facts a bit, didn't they?

Bob Champion20:44

Well, they've got to glorify films up a little bit for the public going to see'em because it is an entertainment industry. But it's pretty accurate.

Presenter20:50

Well, yes, I suppose so, except that that your story is um compelling enough in itself, perhaps. You didn't did you mind? I I mean, what's it like having a film made about your life? Did you suddenly think, My God, everybody knows everything about me?

Bob Champion21:04

Well, you do that. Um, but the press had written an awful lot about me by the time the film had came out, so it wasn't too much of a secret.

Bob Champion21:11

But the first time I went to see it I've never been so frightened in all my life.

Speaker 321:15

Why?

Bob Champion21:16

I went with Lord Grade into one of these small studios to see the first version, which was about two and a half hours long.

Bob Champion21:24

I just didn't know what to expect. When you see people making films, they don't start at the beginning and end at the end, which you'd think they would do. They start in the middle and jump from point to point, so you just haven't got a clue what it's going to come out like.

Presenter21:37

And then you saw it at two and a half hours. What did you think?

Bob Champion21:40

I enjoyed it, and I was very, very relieved.

Presenter21:43

Did you cry?

Bob Champion21:44

Um, no, not really. I was just trying to take the film in.

Bob Champion21:49

and come out and think, well, it wasn't a documentary, which I was glad it wasn't.

Presenter21:55

So you became, as a result of all of this and uh and and winning the Grand National, obviously a a public hero. You were awarded the MBE and they made this film about you and you wrote your book. The invasion of your privacy mu must have been something that was quite difficult to take, despite the good things, too.

Bob Champion22:14

It was. Um, you know, basically I jumped from being a jockey to a so called celebrity. And you don't get any private life. You know, everything you do seems to be written about, even if you're caught speeding.

Presenter22:30

So it was after your recovery and your and your win of the Grand National that you got married, wasn't it, for the first time, and produced that first miracle baby we talked about?

Presenter22:38

But then after four years the marriage broke down.

Presenter22:42

Was it again, do you think, partly because of this public pressure?

Bob Champion22:46

I think it was a little bit, basically when we got married.

Bob Champion22:50

I was just.

Bob Champion22:51

a jockey. I was still riding and um

Bob Champion22:56

Then you jump from being a jockey to celebrity and

Bob Champion23:00

You go to a lot of functions which are hard work. My wife came with me quite a few times, but then she realized how hard work it was and stayed at home.

Bob Champion23:09

And I suppose we just drifted apart.

Presenter23:12

That was a source of great sadness to you, though, wasn't it, when that marriage broke down?

Bob Champion23:16

Yes, of course it was. I think it is when anybody's marriage breaks down.

Bob Champion23:20

We did have a son and um

Bob Champion23:23

You know, sadly I don't see him enough.

Presenter23:25

You then got a bit of a reputation for being a womaniser.

Presenter23:29

Despite your shyness was that you perhaps getting your own back on life?

Bob Champion23:35

I suppose it was. I think, um

Bob Champion23:38

You do get a little bit of reputation if you're seen out with two or three women. But I'm not too bad. I'm a happily married man now.

Presenter23:45

Yes, I know. Let's have another record.

Bob Champion23:49

The next record I'd take with me would be I Can't Get No Satisfaction by the Rolling Stones.

Speaker 324:02

When you get to know what it is

Speaker 324:07

Should you please try

Speaker 324:09

Try

Speaker 324:13

Two.

Presenter24:24

Satisfaction by the Rolling Stones. Well, now, Bob, you're married again, and you've had the second child, Henrietta, and you're a trainer. Who whose horses do you train?

Bob Champion24:33

I train for various people. I really enjoy it. It's completely different from riding. You get all the problems there.

Presenter24:40

Have you got any royal horses?

Bob Champion24:41

I've trained a few for the Queen Mother. Um unfortunately I haven't trained her any winners, but I've had a few placed for her.

Presenter24:47

Have you produced any winners?

Bob Champion24:48

Oh yes, I've trained about fifty winners, I suppose.

Presenter24:51

Great feeling.

Bob Champion24:52

Um it is when

Bob Champion24:54

When one goes by the post in front, but then when they get home at night you're worried about them again.

Presenter25:00

But not quite such a good feeling as being the jockey going past the post on the horse.

Bob Champion25:04

I think you get more of a thrill, actually, training one than riding one.

Presenter25:07

Through I.

Bob Champion25:08

I suppose you've been with a horse all the time, you bring him to his peak, and you've always

Bob Champion25:13

Had a lot of problems with them, especially jumpers, um because they're always getting leg problems, just like top athletes.

Bob Champion25:19

The better they are, the more problems they seem to get. If you've got a horse that's completely useless, I promise you you can't get it to do anything wrong to itself.

Presenter25:27

Uh

Presenter25:28

I've heard people say that your training suffers sometimes because you devote so much time to your charity.

Bob Champion25:35

I do devote quite a bit of time to the charity, but um I'm there every morning with the horses and every night. Most of my charity work

Bob Champion25:42

does take place in the evenings. People just see me doing things in charity and think, Oh, he was doing that last week.

Bob Champion25:51

But often the things I've done on television than things have been done two years before.

Presenter25:55

So this is the Bob Champion Cancer Trust. What does it do? What does it exist to do?

Bob Champion26:00

We set up a unit in the Royal Marsden. It's to find cures and cure cancers in young people.

Bob Champion26:07

and hopefully it's doing a lot of good.

Presenter26:09

But do you see your role mainly as as that of a of a fundraiser uh by making appearances, or do you actually go and talk to people who are suffering in the way that you did?

Bob Champion26:18

No, I'm just a fundraiser. I do occasionally pop into the hospital if I'm driving by and talk to the nurses and often see a patient.

Presenter26:25

Do you count each day that you go on living as a as a bonus, or do you now take life for granted?

Bob Champion26:31

I think every day I wake up, um, it's a bonus, yes. You know, when you think I could have died a few years ago.

Bob Champion26:39

And the little I've put back. I hope it does a bit of good for somebody.

Presenter26:43

And you still have to go for tests yourself, don't you?

Bob Champion26:45

Yeah, I go once a year now. That's the most frightening thing I ever do. About three weeks before I go, I start getting aches and pains all over my body.

Bob Champion26:55

And

Bob Champion26:57

They get worse and worse as the nearer the tests come, and as soon as you've had the tests and the doctor says you're alright, they disappear instantly.

Presenter27:04

But it's it's waiting for the results that must be the most awful part of it.

Bob Champion27:07

It is. It's unbelievable, you know, and it's not just me that feels that way. I've talked to other people and they say exactly the same.

Bob Champion27:14

It's all in the mind.

Presenter27:16

Your seventh record, please.

Bob Champion27:17

It's Sailing by Rod Stewart.

Bob Champion27:20

I'm sneaking

Speaker 327:23

I am sailing.

Speaker 327:27

Home again.

Speaker 327:30

Across the sea.

Speaker 327:34

I am sailing.

Speaker 327:38

Stormy waters to be near you.

Bob Champion27:43

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 327:46

To be free.

Presenter27:51

Rod Stewart and sailing. So what's the next hurdle that Bob Champion will jump? You're going to train a Grand National winner?

Bob Champion27:58

Well, I'd like to. My wife and I have just built a new yard in Newmarket and we're concentrating on the training.

Bob Champion28:05

And hopefully we're going to be very successful.

Presenter28:07

Well, you can lie on the desert island, and you can um dream of the perfect horse. What book can I offer you to pass the time away? You've got the Bible, and you've got the complete works of Shakespeare. What else would you like to take?

Bob Champion28:21

I would take Fraser's Horse Book. It's a complete book of horse care. Um basically it helped me an awful lot with the veterinary side of my business. It would save an awful lot in vets bills.

Presenter28:32

You'll have to stay quite a long time to read all these works, you know.

Bob Champion28:36

Well, it'll take me about twenty-five years because it takes me about two years to read one book.

Presenter28:43

No escape for you, then. Let's have your last record.

Bob Champion28:46

Well the last record I'd take with me would be Glen Campbell Singing Galveston.

Speaker 328:52

Galveston, oh Galveston.

Speaker 328:57

I still hear your sea winds blowing

Speaker 329:03

I still see her dark eyes glowing.

Speaker 329:08

She was twenty-one when I left Galveston.

Presenter29:18

Uh

Speaker 329:18

Uh

Presenter29:18

Galveston of Galveston

Presenter29:22

Glen Campbell singing Galveston.

Presenter29:25

So moments of choice, Bob. Um which of those records, if you could only have one, would you care to take more than any of the others?

Bob Champion29:32

I think Bridge Over Troubled Waters. I think it's a great record. I've always liked it and always will.

Presenter29:38

And your luxury on this island?

Bob Champion29:40

Well, I would have taken smoked salmon and champagne, but every time I eat the two together I always get gout, so um I've got a lovely bronze at home of Old and Eighty Jump in the Chair by Philip Blacker. I would take that. It is very, very good and I love it.

Presenter29:54

Bob Champion, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desertion discs.

Speaker 230:06

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio form.